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Different perspective 2.0

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JadedByItAll posted 1/11/2020 19:34 PM

She cried through the mediation, hoping that I would give her more money.

I laughed way too hard at that statement.

Atg100 posted 1/11/2020 22:12 PM

Itís laughable now .
But for 13 years of my life - this kind of behaviour, as well as silence treatment worked on me .
Bloody scary when you think about it.

Atg100 posted 1/12/2020 23:42 PM

Sitting at the airport, one 6 hour flight and the holidays are over.
It was good to return to Bali, where I went to right after the separation last year.
This time around, I saw so much more of whats going on, continued the friendly discussions with our driver, who we first met last year.
The Balinese people who I was fortunate to talk to understand the challenges of divorce and single parenting. But we also got preferential treatment wherever we went - I think mostly due to my blond 5 year old daughter - I milked it for everything I got anyway ...
Finally caught up with some sleep and mostly ignored emails and messages.
Of course there would have to be email exchange with my ex, and of course she had to answer the kids phone call whilst on a date.
But these were just exercises to test my resolve.
I have to admit that it got to me a little bit.
But I was able to step back, observe my feelings and question them .
Was I jealous?
Was I upset ?
Well, I used to love this woman and was married to her. After only one year of separation, I'd think that it would be unusual not to have any emotional response.
Secondly, it's her narcissism, which makes it all so cringe-worthy.
And then of course my kids.
My boy told me that he wished during the Christmas night, that we would be one happy family again.
My daughter, told me that she missed her mother.
How could that not get to me? - this would break anyone's heart. I am a person with empathy, of course it hurts me when my children are hurting.
But - I can only control myself: Be the best dad I can be, under given circumstances.
Make the best out of the set of cards I received.
I have read a lot about acceptance and ownership, about concentrating on the presence. And I believe that's the only way forward.
And yes, there will be challenges.But the same challenges which would have given me sleepless nights in the past, now barely touch the surface.
Tonight, I will drop the kids off from the airport straight at her place - and it will be tough as hell.
The house will be quite and dark, when I come home.
But I have done that now so many times, I know how to deal with it.
I have plans to socialize this week, on the weekend I will do some volunteer beach clean up work and go on a bush walk. The woman, I had coffee with, is happy to meet me for indoor rock climbing.
All is good.

Atg100 posted 1/14/2020 14:29 PM

Coming home was hard.
A couple of factors which always weaken my resolve cane together - tiredness : the plane was delayed and we only got home at 1am ; I had to be at work at 7...
And too much contact - I dropped the kids off at her place at 1am, so that they would get uninterrupted sleep.
But I had to get back to her place to drop of some of their belongings which were in my suitcases .
So the contrast - in Bali with my kids, no contact to no kids, and too much contact was pretty stark.
It wasnít as bad as after the camping trip in June last year.
I cried uncontrollably in my empty house after dropping of the kids. But it was enough to give me some insomnia and ruminating thoughts.
I practiced some guided meditation, but it took me a while to get there.
This morning Iím rested and things look a little better .

thatbpguy posted 1/14/2020 15:44 PM

This morning Iím rested and things look a little better.

And so they are. And they will get better and better and better..........

DoinBettr posted 1/14/2020 16:18 PM

You are a doctor. You see people in physical pain all the time. Pain is relative. A hang nail to one person hurts as much as a broken bone to another.
See your pain for what it is. Part of who you are. The thing that made you stronger like you are now.
Stand up and be the better you!
Good luck

AFL1000 posted 1/14/2020 20:11 PM


Delayed flights, having to drop kids off to your ex, returning to drop off some of their belongings from the Bali trip, more contact with the ex than you expected, short turn around time to get some sleep before you were back at work and returning to an empty home without the kids. No wonder you needed the release of the crying episode. All perfectly understandable and just the body's emotional release mechanism in operation.

On a positive note you mentioned the female surgeon friend is going to go indoor rock climbing with you. If I'm not mistaken that's a date my friend. Enjoy it.

You also get to socialise and meet new people when you do the beach clean up and bush walk this weekend. Lots of positives here ATG.

Atg100 posted 1/15/2020 13:44 PM

The "waves"analogy is still correct:
At the beginning of this process, you get hit with a storm, the waves are hitting onto you with wild ferocity ; you are in so much pain.

Later, this pain never goes away. But the waves of pain become less frequent and less powerful.
I can deal with them.
This morning - I miss my kids terribly. But they are with their grand parents who they love. My exMIL is a narcissist, just like her daughter. But as long as the kids are young, she is not harming them. And they only seem to go to Perth now once a year, and she only comes over to Brisbane twice a year. That contact is pretty limited.

When I was paying for flights, the MIL would come over to Brisbane every 2-3 months and the kids would be in Perth 3-4 times a year. We would be on holidays with them for a week each year, paid for by me.
Whenever my wife would fly over taking the kids without me, she would go out in the evening and meet guys at bars.

Such a forgettable past.
The presence is so much better!

AFL1000 posted 1/15/2020 18:15 PM

Whenever my wife would fly over [to Perth] taking the kids without me, she would go out in the evening and meet guys at bars.

Let me see if I got this right. Your ex would take trips to Perth at your expense to visit her parents; left the kids with their grandparents in the evenings so she could go and meet guys in bars

So when did this revelation come to light?

Atg100 posted 1/15/2020 18:27 PM

Remember that I charged one of her old phones after she moved out ? Thatís when I found this out.
And an acquittance told me much later that she was inappropriately flirtatious with strangers in bars .

Atg100 posted 1/15/2020 18:30 PM

This arrived just now in my inbox.
Iíd say itís a narcissistís Hoover :

ďI am truly truly sorry for how much I have hurt you. I have grown and changed and been very thoughtful of everything that must hurt you so much about our marriage ending. I know you have so much anger towards me and I absolutely understand why.
I am finding my strength and my voice, and I hope you are finding positives in your world too.
I also hate how money has come into our relationship again too and how it causes so much trouble and anger. Hopefully that is now all behind us.
Seeing our son so upset on Christmas Day eve was awful. Knowing this is what Iíd done to him was horrendous. Perhaps with time we can be in each otherís space on important days so that the children can have happy memories with us all together.

I just felt it important to tell you these things so you know I am not over here thinking everything is all sunshine and rainbowsĒ

If she feels awful that money has come back as a problem in our relationship - she is referring to the 10months it took her to sort her insurances out - she could just pay me back ???

I will not answer , I have no time for this .

[This message edited by Atg100 at 6:31 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)]

NoOptTo posted 1/15/2020 19:50 PM

Funny how being separated from someone brings clarity to ones situation. Your XWW has not changed or improved herself. You have grown as an individual. Your coming out of this horrid situation as a stronger more focused individual. You know you will have to answer her at a later time when it comes to Sharing important days with the kids together. Keep to your guns. Short sweet answers. You have your days with the kids and I have mine. Remember, your mental health is worth having it. No need to celebrate anything with your XWW.

Til you cross that bridge, crickets is your best response.

Freeme posted 1/16/2020 12:49 PM

one of the most pathetic Narcissistic Hovers I've ever seen. You realized in her short 10 sentence note she used the word I 11 times (me once). It was a message all about her. How you shouldn't be angry because she's a better person now.
My guess is that she is having an issue with money and spending holidays apart....because you always paid for the vacations and now she's not invited on your vacations.

Ignore all of it.

BigMammaJamma posted 1/16/2020 14:00 PM

Your letter was fed through the UBT! I was like, "I know that guy!" Well, no, more like, "I have stalked that guy's thread and I feel like I know that guy!"

ChamomileTea posted 1/16/2020 15:13 PM

Seeing our son so upset on Christmas Day eve was awful. Knowing this is what Iíd done to him was horrendous. Perhaps with time we can be in each otherís space on important days so that the children can have happy memories with us all together.

I hate it when people use children in order to manipulate their ex. It's super important to a narc that they manage impressions as you well know. And I'm sure you see this manipulation for what it is.. her not wanting to go down in history as "the bad guy". But this isn't just a manipulation fail... it's her showing you how she manipulates reality for the children as well. The reality is that your family has changed. Building "happy memories of us all together" for the kids is building a false narrative. She's asking you to build a false narrative, untrue memories. This isn't what's best for your children. What's best is that they adapt to what's real in their lives, learning skills as they go.

Your purpose as a parent is the same as mine... to turn babies into successful adults. What you're doing is so much more important than turning out Norman Rockwell Christmas cards. You're teaching about good character and proper boundaries and how a person stands up for himself in this world. So yeah, she's trying to apply guilt so you'll feel bad and participate in her "I'm-not-a-bad-person" scheme. But if you did, what would you be teaching your kids then???

It's natural for little children to want their parents together. But your intention is to raise them into successful ADULTS, Some lessons in life are going to be harder than others, but you're NOT hurting your kids by showing them what boundaries look like. You're teaching them boundaries. Toxic people come along. Yours will know what to do when that happens.

Your example in all this will eventually be.. this is what a man of integrity does when someone knocks him down. He picks himself up, dusts himself off, rids himself of toxic people, and lives his best life with the ones who really matter. That's their takeaway and hopefully, what they'll emulate in their own lives. Don't feel bad for even a second about living in Truth. Your kids need Truth, even if they don't appreciate it yet.

Marz posted 1/16/2020 17:00 PM


Her words were and always will be meaningless.

If youíre smart youíll never crack that door open.

As usual, ignore.

Atg100 posted 1/16/2020 18:50 PM

It was a cracker of a letter worth sharing around.
The crap she comes up with .

And the confusion things would have created for our kids .
My son wishes on Christmas Eve that his parents are back together .
Bang next day ( if things would have gone her way ) - mummy and daddy are there to open gifts together .
He would have thought that Santa fulfilled his wish.
Only later, when daddy goes home, sees the harsh reality again - the disappointment would have been horrendous .

I donít answer this bs letter but it was worth sharing.

Marz posted 1/16/2020 23:02 PM

Thatís the thing a lot donít get.

Kids hope. they just do.

No contact in the sense doesnít dash their hopes over and over.

Atg100 posted 1/19/2020 14:38 PM

Forgiveness : giving up hope of a better past.
I love this definition, it encompasses radical acceptance of all the nasty things which happened.
I want to live my life free of anger.
I can accept that my ex-wife cheated on me, I can accept that according to the laws in this country , I had to pay this huge amount of cash to buy my freedom.
Itís an injustice - but there are so many people who have managed through this.

She sent this funny, narcissistic faux apology .
It made me angry .
But Iím sick and tired of being angry, sad and regretful.
So I need to accept that we are just very different people, with different values , one with a narcissistic personality disorder and one maybe a little more sane.

I explored a bit more why I couldnít forgive her.
I think in part itís the fear that if I let my guard down, she will try to manipulate and abuse the slightest act of kindness shown to her.

But itís so draining. The answer has to be to forgive her, not to condone what she has done - and keep my boundaries up as self protection .
But itís 2020. Iím only occasionally sad and I allow myself to grief every now and then. I was all in.
But anger is so consuming.

Iíd be grateful on advice how to forgive a covert narcissist .

Marz posted 1/19/2020 17:47 PM

To me forgiveness means they or what theyíve done no longer matters.

I see this all the time ďyou must forgiveĒ like itís an action that you can force. Not IMO.

Itís a state of mind that comes over time. Itís not magic where you say I forgive and it happens.

In your case as much no contact you can achieve will make her irrelevant over time. When she becomes a nonentity youíre there.

Make no mistake. People like her DONíT CHANGE. Understanding that will help you get to where you want.

[This message edited by Marz at 5:54 PM, January 19th (Sunday)]

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