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Missing AP

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FoenixRising posted 11/8/2019 14:07 PM

There is no Ďthis was the worst version of myself HOWEVERí

Itís simply the worst version of yourself.

If/when youíre sincere and truly mean something, there is no but. No however. There is no pause. It just is. You donít see that yet. Youíre in quite deep and your last post above has proven it the most. Going in about how great you actually were with him.

No you werenít great. You were lying, unhealthy, selfish, wrong, dangerous, deceitful, secretive and slutty. You broke your wedding vows. You lied to the one person that you promised not lie to.

AP is a fantasy. An escape from whatever it is that youíre running from. Thatís all. It was exciting and the idea of it being fate that pulled you together was a lovely idea but in the real world, there is no happily ever after. Everyday we make our own happiness. A person that you have to lie about, Or a relationship built on infidelity, are/is going to come with a lot of baggage. the fantasy is over. Come back to reality.

Reality is your marriage. The only reason your thinking of AP is bc youíre trying to escape the reality. You cannot escape your marriage until you settle the logistics. You want AP? Stop torturing your BS. Go be with AP but you donít get to Dick around your BS bc youíve been doing that in secret for too long already. This realization is going to suck. Slowly you realize everything you thought was Ďrealí was really just a made up fantasy. Itís coming.

Broken4good posted 11/8/2019 14:09 PM

Thank you so much Pinkpggy, for your support and admitting to relating to the feelings, it makes me feel less alone. I feel like everything I read is about reconciliation and fixing yourself, but no one talks about the hurt in letting something that meant so much go. Almost like it's taboo to admit it hurts to let it go. I was the BW and now I am the WW and heartbreak is heartbreak and feels the same, to me, on either side. We have not had contact for one week today, it is so hard not to want to just say one more thing, in any given moment that one thing, seems so important, but I know that starts the clock over and I need to get through this without any delays.

HeartBreaker11 posted 11/8/2019 14:10 PM

No judgement. Been there myself- it is so painful.

Try to remember that you are still viewing AP with rose colored glasses.

It's likely that it isn't AP as a person that you miss, and more likely that you are having a hard time letting go of the validation and feelings the A gave you.

In the early stages after my A ended and I started NC, I tried to keep busy. Whenever I thought of AP and wanted to send him a text or e-mail, I found something else to do. Spent lots of time reading, lots of time texting other friends, lots of time journaling during those days.

It will get easier.
Sending you good thoughts.

Zugzwang posted 11/8/2019 14:11 PM

You shouldn't hate. You should be indifferent. So, you are saying you feel good about yourself and who you became? Then why are you here? If you don't, the AP and feeding at the AP cart enabled you to be a liar, manipulator, deceiver, and cruel person. What is good about that? It isn't just that what you did was wrong. Who you were and might still be is too. You walked on someone else's back to feel better. Is that really a good person? Is someone that enables you to do that and be that type of person a good person.

Everyone is set on people will find the right person at the right time, but I also believe sometimes you can find the right person at the wrong time. I think it probably happens every single day and maybe some never even realize it. It's because I love him that I let him go, it's because I love him I know he needs to be with his children as do I (we both have extreme circumstances where this is even more critical than most).
This sounds like a bunch of bullshit Nicholas Sparks shit. A good relationship? The right person? Allows you to become a cheater? Really? Of course there are plenty of people we would be compatible with out there. It is what you do with those choices that matter. If you live life waiting for your Plan A to be outdone by someone better, than you are not safe. It doesn't matter if Joe next door is more compatible than your current object love. You don't go there (YOU made a promise not to) and if you aren't happy enough in your vanity with the current object, you divorce and better yet don't get married since you are willing to abandon for anything more compatible. Yeah, you are deep in the fog. The only thing special about the relationship is that you found someone just as selfish to sit in the shit with you that didn't want you to hold them accountable to be better either.

Zugzwang posted 11/8/2019 14:15 PM

Almost like it's taboo to admit it hurts to let it go

That is because we have gotten out of the fog and know the truth. It doesn't hurt to let go. It hurts to face reality and ourselves. The truth is what hurts. Not letting go. Withdrawal of ego kibbles fed by some BS thing we told ourselves about how special we are. When the truth is we were easy, needy, and willing to go there and only the equivalant object would meet us at the bottom of the barrel and let us stay there.

Broken4good posted 11/8/2019 14:18 PM

Yes Buck, this was a RA. In some ways I wonder if it makes you feel less guilty, b/c I think some people on here seem to feel worse about it than I do. I am not saying I don't feel bad because I do, I hurt everywhere for a million reasons, but it just seems different. Someone made a reference to being a horrible person even 15 years after their mistake and I don't think a mistake has to define you forever. I even told my husband I was going to do it, so I don't completely feel I lied to him.

Did having a RA make you forgive your WS for their affair? Because I will say where I used to struggle to look at my husband I no longer do. I completely forgive him for what he has done. That is why I feel like if I can get through this we do have the possibility of creating a new marriage, maybe better than it used to be.

pinkpggy posted 11/8/2019 14:19 PM

She is one week from dday. She is not going to be indifferent.

FoenixRising posted 11/8/2019 14:29 PM

Maybe you need time to figure out what you want.

This sounds not just like a regular mess but more like a steamy pile of dung.

With so many different dynamics to this and so many people involved, perhaps some time on your OWN would do you good.

Gently, I think you have a lot to figure out and if you pressure yourself to figure it all out right now, you could make some more bad choices. Things need to get reset in you before you can see your reality.

This is going to hurt for a while but be kind to yourself and listen to your body. Sleep when you need to. Say you arenít sure when youíre not. Just be authentic. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Donít make any big plans. Focus on your now.

Meditation worked wonders for me.

Broken4good posted 11/8/2019 14:31 PM

Thank you FoenixRising for your comments. I am going to try to create a list, and I have been writing a lot to try to sort through some of it.

I didn't entirely see it as lying, since I did tell my husband I was going to do it. I know you are right though and I wasn't making smart choices and it was definitely an escape. An escape from what is missing in my marriage, from his affair, from my rape, from a million other things I won't post here and I do have to start facing these things. To be honest I can't wait until it all seems like it was a fantasy, I feel like that means I'm closer to getting through this. Thank you for your thoughts.

Zugzwang posted 11/8/2019 14:36 PM

She is one week from dday. She is not going to be indifferent.

I know that. Doesn't mean I can't say she should get to indifference not hate. Though hate may come to because that is part of the process.

Zugzwang posted 11/8/2019 14:51 PM

Does your husband even know you decided to go through with what he deemed was in your character to do and have? From your other posts you really seem to wish your husband behaved in a certain way and avoided things to not rock the boat. Expecting your husband to be a mind reader or to care, whatever it is you expect. What about just communicating? Stop avoiding things. Stop expecting him to get a clue. Just cope differently. While you pine for this "great AP" just remember he did to his wife and kids what your husband did to you and for that fact so did you. Is that really the best version of either of you? To hurt his family? You know what that pain is like and he enabled you to inflict that pain on his wife knowing the pain it causes? That is a "wonderful soulmate"?

leavingorbit posted 11/8/2019 15:54 PM

Hi, B4G. Iím sorry that youíre struggling. Iíve been following your story and thereís a lot of elements to it that Iím sure distract from some bottom line truths. Itís difficult to see clearly when weíre in pain. Your story has pain upon pain upon pain. It reads to me like youíre desperate to escape that pain in any way you can, which I believe is understandable, although your escapism is hurting people. I hurt lots of people with mine, too. Learning to sit with and process difficult emotion is a tough thing to do in the best of times. Youíre only a week out and Iím not sure if what Iím going to say will be helpful. Madhatter situations are so tough to untangle because there can be a lot of fingerpointing. My husband and I have spent a lot of time untangling ours. We are reconciling successfully thus far, so hereís some points that helped us.

I justified and spun some major stories about my cheating for a long time. For me, it was anything, anything at all - just get me away from this pain that was too big to face and work through. Make me feel loved, make me feel whole, make me feel something else. My APs got me, they understood me, they needed me, they made me feel needed. There was a hole inside of me. Screw anyone that got in the way of my self medicating. Lots of legitimate past pain to process, really harmful ways to avoid that processing. I see you say you recognize this and thatís a big step.

In my marriage, I was the one who cheated first. My husband cheated to cope. In fact, he cheated to cope with a lot of things, just like me, really. A lot of legitimate pain to process, a lot of really harmful ways to avoid that processing. Theyíre identical, those entitled justifications. I believe they are addict thinking, they are victim thinking, and they do nothing to heal or solve pain. Itís an abuse cycle and hurts you, hurts others. Anything that justifies why one says they need another person can be indicative of someone that I believe is avoiding looking at themselves. Ultimately, we canít need anyone. Humans are autonomous. We can want things, and ask for things, but we arenít owed. Love is an action that we give, not something that we expect to be given. I know thatís hard to hear when youíre in pain and Iím sorry. It can lead to self improvement. Empowerment. It has for me and my husband. Iím sure itís especially hard to hear after your husbandís betrayal. Iím sure itís especially hard to hear after your assault. Iím so sorry that these things happened to you.

Your AP canít make you whole. Your husband canít make you whole. They canít process your pain for you or fix things. Itís up to you to heal you, although your husband can help if youíve come clean and he wants to offer that gift. His cheating is not your fault. Your cheating is not his fault. You have made an agreement with your husband, for better or worse. If you want out of that agreement, a divorce can be the final answer. I do believe that offering grace comes from a place inside us that battles against shame, is freed from shame. I donít see how we can have compassion for anyone when we are steeped in shame ourselves. A divorce wonít give you better coping mechanisms or self esteem, however. It canít free you from your own shame, although it can get you out of an abusive or toxic environment. I believe that environment will follow you into the future if you donít work on healing yourself, regardless of your current relationship.

So, some questions I would ask you: why do you feel you need another person to feel whole? What are you running from? Have you accepted that your husbandís choices had nothing to do with you or your marriage? Whatís your support system like to work through these things? Counseling, support groups such as CoDA?

Iím really sorry youíre here, B4G. Iíve been where you are and itís hard. I wish you courage and healing.

DevastatedDee posted 11/8/2019 16:37 PM

I swear that I do not say this to belittle you or anyone else on this thread. It just got me thinking about how real feelings feel.

When I was 14, I was utterly and completely in love with David Bowie. The feelings were real. Had he shown up at my door, I'd have run away with him. I ached for him.

Now, I didn't know this man. I realize that there is a difference between someone you physically are in contact with and a young teenager's fantasy life. But the feelings were "real". Irrational and silly and kind of adorable to me in retrospect in this case, but "real" nonetheless.

Feelings are what they are and we really do feel them. They don't necessarily mean anything, though. They don't say anything about the other person, even. My teenage love for David Bowie said a lot about me as a teenage girl, but it didn't say anything about him as a person.

Even the very much real love I felt for my XWH didn't say anything about him as a person in the long run. I loved who I thought he was. I didn't actually love who he truly was. You may miss your AP and you may even love your AP, but it isn't based on what's real and true. What's real and true is not so pretty and at some point you'll see it and you'll likely lose those feelings of love. Mine evaporated for my XWH once I truly saw him. David Bowie, however, will always have a place in my heart.

BraveSirRobin posted 11/8/2019 17:03 PM

I didn't entirely see it as lying, since I did tell my husband I was going to do it.
Gently, though... you see now that that was just an excuse, right? A year long affair with your newfound best friend and confidant was not what you threatened or what he expected. Even his "I wish you'd do it and get it over with, so we can move on" is an indicator that he believed it would be brief and that he would be informed. Granted, he had no compunction about deceiving you, but saying he deserved to be lied to is one thing, and claiming it wasn't a lie is quite another.

I know it's hard to see flaws in your AP because you're so deep in the fog, but it's easier to see them from outside. As your confidant, he presumably heard from you how devastating it was to be cheated on when you had a new baby. This lovely, kind, empathetic man then did exactly the same thing to his own wife. You say you didn't know she was pregnant until later, but he knew the whole time. Your limerence will make you want to cast this as him being caught in the cruel claws of an irresistible fate. You have to let go of that and see cheap, deceptive behavior for what it is. He was ok with both her pain at being betrayed and your pain when you found you were his accomplice. And by your account, he felt no guilt about this at all. Mr. Perfect does not sound nearly so perfect from the ringside seats.

Believe me, I speak as someone who has been, if not where you are, at least in the nearby suburbs. The value of my ego kibbles depended on OM being a good man who was swept away by his love for me. He played that role well because his own kibbles demanded the same. Honesty would have revealed that we were two broken, defensive people who lacked the self-confidence to demand more from a relationship or walk away with our heads held high.

It's too soon for you to see this. You're white knuckling it to get from hour to hour, and I do understand. But some of us can see it very clearly. As painful and incomprehensible as it seems right now, you will get there, too.

hikingout posted 11/9/2019 08:26 AM

DevastatedDee,

Thatís the best analogy I have ever seen. So true.

When I was in my affair I had very intense feelings. It took a long time after it was over to realize, I didnít even know the AP very well. It occurred to me much later that I was expecting someone to be a Prince Charming who was already proven a frog with his current wife. That I was ignoring a faithful good man for an insincere serial cheater. The amount of fantasy and story telling I did to myself was nothing short of brainwashing.

You will see it too in time. You are going through withdrawal. Read about limerance. Educate yourself. There is a great article you can google by dr. Frank Pittman called romantic infidelity. Itís quite enlightening about the fact you are having quite a normal psychological response to having an affair. Part of the excitement of the affair is it makes you feel like you are a different person, you play a role, there is a lot of self adulation.

You see love is wanting to make another person happy. An affair is wanting the AP to make you happy. We create our own happiness and our own misery.

I thought the AP was my soul mate and could not imagine living without him. Now if I were to imagine living with him I see what a lesser life that would have been. He was a figment of my imagination.

I now feel emotionally indifferent towards him, but from a logical standpoint, I dislike him. I donít think he is a good person. I donít think I was a good person at the time that I was spending time with him. He didnít care about me, he was helping me do a very self destructive thing and helping me destroy my innocent husband. Why? So he could get what he wanted. Yeah, that would have made a good person for me to run off and spend my life with. And eventually you will see you were doing the same thing to him. I manipulated the AP in all sorts of ways that I couldnít admit to myself at the time.

This will come. It does get better. Work on this in IC. You basically turned in a lot of feelings in yourself that will take a little while to find the switch. But it really has nothing to do with the AP himself, itís the stories you have told yourself about the AP. Work on debunking them and start telling yourself new ones. I know you wish you could will these feelings away. I begged God to help me because I didnít want to have them either. It was torture, I wanted to move on and be the person that I knew was a better person than that. You will feel better gradually but try not to keep telling yourself the positive stories. Try finding the truth. Keep posting many of us have been where you are.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:29 AM, November 9th (Saturday)]

Broken4good posted 11/9/2019 08:35 AM

Thank you heartbreaker, I hope you are right and I can take the glasses off at some point. I am trying my hardest to keep busy, but sort of feels like I am just going through the motions and not really feeling anything I'm doing. I have been writing a lot and I do think it helps. I have been writing to him, and not sending of course, but just to get things out. I have ideas of who I should imaginary write to next, but I know those ones need to be written when I am alone .

Broken4good posted 11/9/2019 08:55 AM

Thank you Leavingorbit, and thank you for sharing your experience. It is so hard to admit, but I think you and several others are right, in regards to the addiction aspect of it all. I never saw it like that, but the way you all describe it feels so accurate and makes me feel so stupid. I think the biggest thing I've been confused about is that right after this all happened, last week, and it was over, I almost had this immediate urge to talk to someone else. I didn't of course as I know I don't want to be this person, but the urge is there. I didn't understand what I was feeling and still don't, but it almost feels like replacing him would stop the pain, which doesn't really make sense to me at all, but I just feel it sometimes. So when you bring up filling a whole as a sort of self medication, I think that is what I am feeling when I feel that need.

As for your questions: why do you feel you need another person to feel whole? I don't know, I have never had anyone really...I am adopted and am actually quite independent...maybe it just feels really nice having someone.

What are you running from? I don't know how to know this either, I guess just pain. There was pain long before any of this happened, I see that now but I believe the pain that led me to make the choices, which led me here, are surrounding the rape. I never dealt with it, he seemed to make me forget it even happened. The one thing your questions have me really looking at... is right after it happened, I mean within weeks when I was still covered in bruises and barely able to get to work each day, he was trying for "more", he would say lets meet up and talk I think you need it b/c you are worrying me... nothing between us had ever happened at this point and I did/do believe it was sincere. When I would meet with him that first time to talk he was trying to hold my hand and when I was crying he kept hugging me and then tried to kiss me which I rejected, and he would just say he just felt this need to comfort me. At the time I guess I just bought it, I sort of still do, I can't lie, but there is a nagging feeling in the back of my brain asking me how you could be trying to be intimate with a woman who was brutally raped 2 weeks before.... this one thought has my realing and it almost seems easier to push it to back of my head than admit it

Have you accepted that your husbandís choices had nothing to do with you or your marriage? I don't know, I don't think I was enough for him, he expressed he needed more love and I had 4 children all very close together, one with special needs, so I don't believe I gave him enough of what he needed. I guess I know it was my fault even though it was not done intentionally.

Whatís your support system like to work through these things? Counseling, support groups such as CoDA? Nothing, it was my AP, that was it, and where I felt like I was over it because of him, it now feels like it just happened yesterday and my nightmares have even returned... and then the urge for a new band aid returns.

Broken4good posted 11/9/2019 08:59 AM

Thank you DevastatedDee, your analogy made me laugh but I understand what you mean. I was a Justin Timberlake girl and I remember when I was 16 and saw him and actually fainted, so you are right I guess even feelings draped in fantasy feel very real :(

My heart still is telling me we had something special, but my head, with the help of all you, is starting to question that and I'm not sure if it feels better pretending or trying to come to terms with the truth.

BraveSirRobin posted 11/9/2019 09:15 AM

At the time I guess I just bought it, I sort of still do, I can't lie, but there is a nagging feeling in the back of my brain asking me how you could be trying to be intimate with a woman who was brutally raped 2 weeks before.... this one thought has my realing and it almost seems easier to push it to back of my head than admit it
My heart still is telling me we had something special, but my head, with the help of all you, is starting to question that and I'm not sure if it feels better pretending or trying to come to terms with the truth.
I know exactly how tough this is. I refused to see how the OM had lied and gaslighted me, and when it was impossible to deny it any longer, I made excuses that he was just so in love with me that he couldn't help himself. I don't write much about that part of my A because it's hard to describe without making it sound like I think I was his victim. I made the choice to cheat, and nothing he did absolves me of what I did. But the truth is that he was not a nice guy, no matter what I told myself or how universally successful he was at making others believe it. And one of the most devastating barriers to R was my unwillingness to turn and face that my vision of him could not be aligned with the facts. As foggy as you are, you are light years ahead of where I was at this stage.

HeartBreaker11 posted 11/9/2019 11:33 AM

I think the biggest thing I've been confused about is that right after this all happened, last week, and it was over, I almost had this immediate urge to talk to someone else. I didn't of course as I know I don't want to be this person, but the urge is there. I didn't understand what I was feeling and still don't, but it almost feels like replacing him would stop the pain,

This right here.

I am so glad you were able to verbalize this and say this.

Whenever you think of OM, remember this right here.

OM was not special. If HE was special, if HE was someone you really loved and someone who was really a soulmate, you would not have urges to replace him with a random new person.

He was an escape. He was a bandaid. It's not him you miss. It's an escape from pain that you miss.

My heart still is telling me we had something special, but my head, with the help of all you, is starting to question that and I'm not sure if it feels better pretending or trying to come to terms with the truth.

I feel this so hard.

It's been months and I am still trying to come to terms with the truth. I hate it a lot because it really puts into perspective what I did, and the kind of person I am for wrecking my family and relationship over someone who was not that special or important.

Hang in there. It will get easier.

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