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ceal posted 11/12/2019 15:23 PM

I found this forum 10 years ago and it helped me a lot. I guess at some point things got better.
Well.. Here I am. Again.
He is not cheating, I think. We worked our issues, or so I thought.

Over the past years I've discovered him lying here and there. When confronted he always seemed genuinely remorseful and changed behavior. My therapist asked me once "how long is this going to last this time before he goes back to lying again?" and I ignored her. I actually ditched her because we were doing GOOD.
A couple of months ago, I discovered he was starting to get flirty with someone. I asked him to stop and he did, we had an argument about it among other things (small lies here and there) and if we needed to reconsider our marriage. I was feeling ready to walk out but he seemed extremely remorseful and asked me to trust him and to "not set him up for failure". He promised to be honest.
I know her, she is an acquaintance and actually a very nice person. Two weeks ago he took some baked goodies to a couple of friends and I asked him if he had given some to her to try as well (which I wouldn't have minded as they were all in a group setting). He said he didn't, I asked him why and he said he didn't want to, I thought it was a bit rude but whatever.
Last Saturday I ran into acquaintance and she mentioned she thought the bread was good but maybe too sweet for her. DH was right next to me, so obviously she didn't know he had lied to me.
My heart sunk. It's not what he lied about, it's the lie itself and the fact that it is a pattern and my ex-therapist words keep crossing my mind. How long will is it going to last this time before he goes back to lying again?

I needed somewhere to vent, I know it sounds confusing but where do I from here?

layla1234 posted 11/12/2019 15:43 PM

I'm a little confused. If he was getting flirty with her and you asked him to stop, why did you encourage him to bring treats to her?

This would be a huge red flag to me that he lied to you about it.

WhoTheBleep posted 11/12/2019 15:43 PM

I'm so sorry you are back. Lying is a wayward behavior. So is flirting.

How are you to trust him?

What DON'T you know?

[This message edited by WhoTheBleep at 3:44 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)]

layla1234 posted 11/12/2019 15:49 PM

Ok, I thought about it and the fact that she said something to you in front of your H says they are not sneaking around...yet.

This does show guilt on your husband's part though. For whatever reason (he probably has a crush on her), he didn't want to tell you he had interaction with her. You need to have a serious conversation about boundaries pronto. If it were me, I would also make my presence known more around this aquantaince. You can tell a lot by their interactions with each other.

HellFire posted 11/12/2019 15:57 PM

.... or, she knew he had lied to you, and she wanted to make him sweat. Just because she said something to you in front of you, doesn't mean there isnt anything going on. Maybe she wanted to cause a little trouble, and hurry this along.

Regardless, he is showing you you cannot trust him. He lies, therefore he has no problem hiding anything from you. That's Wayward. It sounds like he did no work on himself at all. I'm sorry, but I think you should have stuck with your therapist. She seemed to understand what was going on.

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:57 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)]

Booyah posted 11/12/2019 16:25 PM

Maybe it's not his lies that are the issue, but rather the lies you tell yourself?

Marie2792 posted 11/12/2019 17:37 PM

I just want to be clear that he gave these to her in a group setting, but lied that he hadn’t given it to her.? The reason you even asked him about it is because you had seen flirty messages between them. Did she reciprocate those messages? You said she was a nice person so I would think you wouldn’t say that about her if her messages were not platonic.

I would be upset about the fact that he lied also. Lying TL cover his own butt because he felt guilty is wayward behavior. He may not be texting her right now but he definitely went out of his way because giving her the bread is contact and that is frowned upon.

It sounds like he needs to be on some therapy to work on his boundaries. You have a right to be upset.

gmc94 posted 11/12/2019 17:41 PM

I'm "only" 22 months out, but my WH is also perfectly fine lying to cover his own ass.

Just want to say you are in my thoughts. I'm sorry this is happening.

(((ceal)))

deephurt posted 11/12/2019 18:21 PM

Lying after you have given the gift of r is unacceptable

ceal posted 11/12/2019 20:30 PM

I feel like I need to clarify a couple things...
They work together, the treats were to share/exhange among coworkers, and yes, I specifically asked him about her due the previous incident.
The messages I found were not explicit and she didn’t reciprocate and probably didn’t think much of them. Except that I know him and he was “testing the waters” so to speak and he admitted it.
Do I think he has a crush on her? Yes.
Is it reciprocated? I don’t know...maybe?
When I ran into her, I asked her about the exchange, which she replied and mentioned she tried what he had brought.

The thing is, I’m hurt because he purposely lied on something that seemed innocent, I don’t think he ever thought it’d come up but oddly it happened.
I wish I could find my old posts, as it almost feels like history is repeating itself. When I found out he was cheating 10 years ago, it was by pure accident after he had lied about accepting HW’s Facebook friend request

Buster123 posted 11/12/2019 21:20 PM

Except that I know him and he was “testing the waters” so to speak and he admitted it

So he's trying to pursue another relationship aka CHEATING, so what is it you're confused about ? he's lying, he's admitted to at least "testing the waters", what else do you need to know from this proven cheater and compulsive liar ? the writing is on the wall, you deserve much better, it seems he didn't learn much 10 years ago.

Striver posted 11/12/2019 21:23 PM

His remorse is irrelevant at this point. He cannot be trusted.

You know what you have with this man. What are you willing to do? What boundaries are you willing to stick to?

ceal posted 11/13/2019 08:00 AM

so what is it you're confused about ?

I guess nothing. I do love him and I'm extremely hurt. Deep inside of me, I want to think this can be worked out, but time has proven it can't.
I was reading my little summary under my profile and I cried. I was 25, chidless, with nothing other than a piece of paper tying us together. If I had known that I would be still here 10 years later, would I have attempted to reconcile?

I had a conversation with him yesterday, and I asked him point blank what did he want out of this. I don't know if I did right, but I brought pretty much everything that has happened in this 12 years we've been together and showed him the pattern. It was't an argument, or a discussion, there were no raised voices. I just wanted him to know that I'm done with it and he either came up with an action plan or we needed a separation plan.
He said he thought it was unfair that I've had all this time to think about what I wanted but was expecting a response from him right there. I told him I wasn't expecting it right at the moment, but I wanted to know what he thought/felt.
He offered to stop talking to this person. But to me, that is just a band-aid. It is not this particular person, because next year it'll be someone else.
I'm frightened, I don't have a support system as we moved a country away from family and friends (due jobs) and no one to talk to because I have never aired any of our issues to anyone irl.

nekonamida posted 11/13/2019 10:51 AM

Ceal, WSes aren't remorseful until they slip up repeatedly. They're regretful until you uncover the next lie. All those times he was pretending to be remorseful were really just times he was trying to convince you to stay as the dedicated wife while he chatted up OW.

Ask yourself, if she had reciprocated, how far could this have gone? He admitted to testing the waters so basically this was a PA in the making. This was a clear attempt to give you another DDay. I don't know how this could possibly be worked out when all your WS has proven is that he will put his head down, pretend to do the work, say all the right things, and then cheat again when he thinks you're not looking. The OW, who she is, and what she will or won't do doesn't even matter. It doesn't even matter if she never speaks to him again because he will find another one. His "plan" to just avoid her is crap and doesn't fix whatever issue he has that makes him want to keep cheating on you. You're absolutely right about that.

Call your family and start telling them what's going on. Lean on your friends for support even if it's just by phone, email, FB, etc. Get that support system back. See a lawyer and figure out what D would mean and look like. You don't have to make moves today but get informed in case it comes down to that and he does find a willing OW next year.

Ladyogilvy posted 11/13/2019 11:27 AM

Oh boy can I relate. I am losing it this morning because of a stressful gas lighting situation that has nothing to do with my husband but he has the emotional IQ of a rock, I tried to talk to my husband about what I was upset about last night. It wasn't even about him and he still and he still couldn't show any empathy. He can sometimes. We are both under an extreme amount of stress. His emotion IQ goes down when he is stressed. So, I am triggered. I am triggered because he has never told the truth when someone lied to me about something hugely important, something that hurt my young adult,son so much he called me crying, and I tried to talk to my husband about what was happening, he totally shut down,the way he always does when I am upset at him. But, I wasn't being upset with him... yet. I woke up and all the lies he told, all the ones I know about, all the one's I don't, had come flooding back. He didn't even do anything, other than act like he always acts when I am upset... like nothing is wrong. More triggering. Then when I am upset with him because, he does the same, act like nothing is wrong. So many comments here assume we have somewhere to go. I didn't ten years ago, I don't now. I am disabled and can't work. He works but literally does not get paid. Long story, part of the years of stress that actually aren't his fault. We can't afford a divorce. We may not be able to keep our home. He act like everything is fine financially as well. Pathological optimism. I am disabled and can't do anything to make things better. But the lies. The never being able to trust him. I totally get that. I get that it isn't as simple as setting boundaries. It is sometimes a matter of not having any choice but to make the best of things. Trying to believe things are going to be okay. But, the truth is, we will never know what the truth is, from day to day. We will never know what is really going on. But, sometimes, you can't ignore that things are not okay. Sometimes all you can do is get mad or cry or both. Honestly, they are broken they broke the relationship, they broke us. It is probably a waste of time getting upset about things being broken that can't be fixed.

ceal posted 11/13/2019 15:08 PM

@Ladyogilvy HUGS!

There is so much truth in your words :/ I've been thinking on maybe moving into my office and make it into a bedroom/office.

Ugh, I don't know. I wish I was angrier, angry enough not to care about uprooting my kids from the only place they know as home, to move back home and let the pieces fall in place.

I feel back in square one

psychmom posted 11/13/2019 15:49 PM

Deep inside of me, I want to think this can be worked out, but time has proven it can't.

Ceal, it looks like you have your answer.
It hurts to know you tried, yet he was not capable of being the man you want and need him to be. And after 10 years the chance if a huge shift in him is slim.

So it's now up to you. What do you want now that your eyes have been opened to the real person he is? I'm truly sorry that he failed and you now have to revisit this. It's a nightmare many here can fully relate to.

cbgrace1980 posted 11/14/2019 14:42 PM

I am so sorry you are going through this. People CAN change, but it takes hard work and time to ear back trust. If he wants to be a more honest person, he might be willing to see a counselor with you who will be able to help you both "start over." I know this is not easy and we are here for you to vent anytime. It sounds like he's lying over small things, which is even more frustrating. Hang in there!

cancuncrushed posted 11/14/2019 19:00 PM

Group settings mean nothing. They can flirt and makes eyes and few notice. A few do

ow flirted extremely obvious in front of coworkers and me. She wanted everyone to know. She wanted the D to happen. did Wh realize? No. He was gob smacked excited every time she came close. He felt lucky.

They were equally guilty. Where didn’t matter. There were no safe areas. Where I could trust.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 7:02 PM, November 14th (Thursday)]