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layla1234 posted 12/2/2019 21:49 PM

Looking for honest answers here. Not like it matters, because I'm ready to D but just enlighten me. I never believed it was just an EA. Even more so when I found this forum. WH has trickle truthed to the nines.

I know now that they had very graphic role play scenarios while sitting right next to each other. I know they were alone together in his car on at least 3 occasions, but I believe it to be way more. I know that he used to park very far away at work, would back his car up, and would also bring a change of clothes to work and change in his car. His affair was all about control and wanting to be desired. He sent her sweaty pics of himself after boxing. He left work, texted her to send him a pic and she went into the work bathroom and did it. He told me he had so much power over her, he could make her do that. He told me they were both turned on while role play chatting right next to each other. He complained he didn't get enough sex.

After all this (and adding in that he has never been truthful to me), and I'm supposed to believe it never went physical just because he passed a lie detector right after he cleared his browser history? She approaches him the very next day complete comfortable and he reacted in a way she had never seen before (because there was never really NC to begin with). He was afraid he would fail another poly. He kept this contact from me for weeks until I dragged it out of him. He didn't want me to think he lied to me about her never being the first to initiate contact.

I would love to hear from any WS that had a work affair. Help me understand this.

[This message edited by layla1234 at 10:28 PM, December 2nd (Monday)]

ibonnie posted 12/2/2019 22:28 PM

Help me understand this.

layla, gently, I don't think you're ever going to understand this. Affairs are crazy-making things. Wayward behaviour, while predictable, makes very little sense.

I agree with your gut. From everything you posted, it always sounded like things went physical. I feel like you're still trying to convince yourself that your WH could be telling the truth but.... this isn't a court of law. You don't have to prove something beyond a reasomable doubt. You just have to trust your gut again.

Luna10 posted 12/3/2019 06:21 AM

My WH had a 9 till 5 affair. Not going out in the evenings or weekends, not particularly late. On dday my best friend asked me when did he cheat as we are always together (for the context).

All the sex happened at her place during lunch break, at her place by booking an afternoon and a day off and in the car. Yes in the car like teenagers. BJs and full on sex.

To say I was shocked people can accept so little (the AP) is an understatement. No dinners out, no gifts, no time (with one exception when he took the day off).

So if your question is: can it be done without stealing time away from the family and still have sex and a full blown affair? The answer is: absolutely.

ETA: the day off was taken at the end of the affair, two weeks before dday, so all the rest, the sex in the car and at her place during lunch breaks happened before this. In theory it could have lasted 9 till 5 forever, she was not demanding any time from him outside work hours apparently. And she was single so you would expect she would have been more demanding. The AP in your case was married therefore working hours affair suited her much more than it suited the AP in my case.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 6:24 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

nekonamida posted 12/3/2019 07:32 AM

Out of everything:

I know that he used to park very far away at work, would back his car up, and would also bring a change of clothes to work and change in his car.

I have no idea why someone would ever bring a change of clothes to work unless they had a really good reason. All of this is very strange to me.

I think it's very simple. You feel in his gut that he is lying. He seems to be lying just like he was through all that trickle truth.

What stands out to me is how he likes feeling in control. He probably likes the control that comes from withholding the truth from you. At this point, I don't think finding out it was a PA is even that bad to you. It's all the lying that's unacceptable. I have to wonder if maybe he isn't that scared of what would happen if you knew and instead doesn't want to "submit" to you by giving you the truth. It sounds like he didn't want to submit to you by following boundaries after DDay either while he still worked with her. He seems to think that R is a power struggle where he has the opportunity to remain on top if he controls the truth and controls the outcome. Psychmom's WH did this and admitted to this after TT'ing her so these kinds of WS exist and are out there.

I'm betting yours is one of them where his primary motivator isn't fear. It's control and power. He's probably panicking now that you're leaving but he wasn't panicking back when he was TT'ing.

[This message edited by nekonamida at 7:32 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

HellFire posted 12/3/2019 07:38 AM

He would not be the first Wayward spouse, to pass a polygraph, while lying. There have been several betrayed spouses who have come here, and said their wayward passed a polygraph, only to find out that they had lied their ass off.

It's pretty common knowledge around here, that when distance is not a factor, there is at least some physical touching. 99% of the time it's full on sex.

So, if he was sitting right next to her, and they were having these intense role playing sexual games, you can bet there was probably sex.

cocoplus5nuts posted 12/3/2019 07:44 AM

I think it's very unlikely that they didn't have sex. What did they do in the car if not fooling around? That does not make sense based on the nature of their A.

Like ibonnie said, no matter the answer, it's not going to make sense to a reasonable person. As just don't make sense.

I have no idea why someone would ever bring a change of clothes to work unless they had a really good reason.

My fch keeps a change of clothes at work. He goes to the gym before work. They have showers at his work. He showers and changes into his uniform at work. He changes out of his uniform into civvies before coming home. He is not allowed to stop and get out of his vehicle in public for any reason (except for a life or death emergency, of course) if he is in cammies. Don't even mention the fact that Army and Navy ADMs where their cammies in public! Of course, that's all good reason.

It's reasonable to me that someone who works out before work would bring a change of clothes. Also, you never know when a mess might happen. Depending on the nature of the work, a spare shirt, suit, or overalls might be helpful.

layla1234 posted 12/3/2019 08:01 AM

Coco,

They went on dates and ran errands together apparently. One day he took her to petsmart and then they ate lunch. I confirmed with bank records this happened the day after our wedding anniversary. He says they never were alone after the sexting started which I doubt.

As far as the clothes, he would drive a Jeep with the top down. He changed in his car but his work has bathrooms he can use to change in. That's also why he said he needed to park far away and back his car up. He is a very good liar and has had a lot of time to think about a cover story for everything I question.

pinkpggy posted 12/3/2019 08:44 AM

I hate to dredge up stuff, and while we weren't coworkers, my affair happened during office hours only. Mon-Fri (twice on a Sat). My AP used his office, his office computer and phone to conduct 99% of the affair and we only ever met during business hours. He would take off his shirt and keep it in his car, take of his wedding ring and leave it in the cup holder. My was very heavy in sexting conversation and emotional conversation and I can say if two adults have the means to do so, I cannot imagine how it would never go physical. Especially with all that build up.

And that stuff about sending sweaty pics and telling her what to do happened in my affair too. No affair is special or different. Its all about egos and push pull dynamics.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 8:52 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

layla1234 posted 12/3/2019 08:51 AM

He's never going to admit to what I already know happened. And so I have no choice but to move on.

I wish with everything I have that he would have been honest upfront and we could have possibly moved forward from this. I can't reconcile with a lying liar.

[This message edited by layla1234 at 9:07 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

layla1234 posted 12/3/2019 09:09 AM

And that stuff about sending sweaty pics and telling her what to do happened in my affair too. No affair is special or different. Its all about egos and push pull dynamics.

Was this before or after you started having sex?

BluesPower posted 12/3/2019 09:28 AM

He's never going to admit to what I already know happened. And so I have no choice but to move on.

I wish with everything I have that he would have been honest upfront and we could have possibly moved forward from this. I can't reconcile with a lying liar.

You know, if he is "smart enough" maybe he beat the poly. Maybe the examiner was not good. Maybe he did not ask the right questions.

Who knows, but it is possible.

Actually more possible then they never had sex, according to the odds.

But here is the problem, whether either of the above is true, you KNOW he has TT and lied to you.

At the very least he had an affair, and I think they still work together...

So the question is, is this who you want to be married too???

[This message edited by BluesPower at 9:28 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

layla1234 posted 12/3/2019 09:49 AM

If he did in fact passes the poly and did not eventually tell me that then I'm definitely making the right choice. What WS would say, oh I passed it but here's the truth??

pinkpggy posted 12/3/2019 09:59 AM

Was this before or after you started having sex?

The sexual talk was before,during, after and always during my affair. I wasn't much on sending photos but he would send me sweaty pics of himself at the gym after it became physical. A huge component of our affair was based in working out and eating healthy, being accountable together. The photos got more sweaty, shirtless as time went on.

I feel ill remembering all this because its been packed away for so long but I know it was a huge ego boost for him for me to compliment him with the photos. The photos were taken for me specifically.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 10:02 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

ibonnie posted 12/3/2019 10:28 AM

Hes from withholding the truth from you. At this point, I don't think finding out it was a PA is even that bad to you. It's all the lying that's unacceptable.

My WH lied/denied/minimized and gaslit me for about three months before admitting to a PA. I remember having this sick sense of relief when he finally said that they had slept together, because I knew in that moment that I wasn't crazy and I needed to stop doubting my sanity/gut/eyes.

forgettableDad posted 12/3/2019 10:38 AM

I had an affair with a co-worker. But there's no easy answer here to be honest.

Gently, one of the things that both me and my wife realized during our conversations regarding the affair is that, at time, we had different understanding of the topics we were discussing. Defining what you mean by a physical affair could be different from the way he sees it. Even the concept of sex, especially because of shame and fear, I tried to minimize. So when she asked me about sex at first I assumed (wanted to assume, lets be honest here) that she's talking about penetration. And there wasn't so, phew, dodged a bullet there, right? I was wrong obviously but it took me a while to understand how to listen to what my wife *is* asking instead of listening to what I wanted her to ask.

I see now that *any* touch pushes the affair into the physical realm. I don't know the resolution of your questions regarding the affair. But if he sees a PA only with penetrative sex, then yea, he could have passed the poly because he believes that it wasn't one.

It could also be that there was no touching at all. Only words and pics. An affair (for most I think) is a consequence of something very deeply broken within the person. For me it was almost like a temporary mental illness. So I don't know how much rational and logical thought I could expect of myself (for example, I knew there something wrong with me, I couldn't stop. Took me months in intensive IC to be able to get a hold and break those patterns).

Also, very gently; your partner is in a bit of a catch-22. He can change his story, which means he lied before or he sticks to it and you don't believe him.

Sorry, this is getting long...

I think, if you haven't, ask him exactly what the physical contact was (I doubt there wasn't any at all); touching, oral, hands etc. Eventually we did that. It was... difficult but essential.

****
I know it's not my place as a WS. But whatever you choose to do. You, my wife and every betrayed spouse, deserve a trusting, happy and healthy relationship. Either with your WS (if you choose to extend that gift) or someone else or alone. I hope the future brings nothing but good tidings.

Thumos posted 12/3/2019 10:40 AM

Reading this it seems fairly obvious they had sex.

Also, are they still working together? If so, that is an untenable non-negotiable. If he wants to R, he will need to find new employment forthwith.

layla1234 posted 12/3/2019 10:46 AM

@forgettabledad

He claims zero physical contact at all.

layla1234 posted 12/3/2019 10:59 AM

@Thumos

They are not working together as of Feb last year. He was also in her house for 10 minutes to pick her up for a concert. He claims this is before they knew they had feelings for each other so nothing happened. I didn't know he was in her house, much less that he was even attending the concert with her. He just admitted to me that he stopped by to say hi to her at another concert years ago. He previously told me she was at this concert but he didn't see her.

nekonamida posted 12/3/2019 11:00 AM

He claims zero physical contact at all.

I too thought maybe he wasn't counting kissing or oral or something but this is completely and utterly unbelievable. Even with the passed polygraph. It's just not realistic at all. Either he's the one mythical WS who did everything BUT anything physical or he's lying and the odds are definitely in favor of him lying.

layla1234 posted 12/3/2019 11:03 AM

I forgot he did tell me he hugged her once. He said it was the day after the concert. He saw her crying outside of work and walked over to hug her. He says he walked away right after. They didn't even speak to each other.