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Karma or pity

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Muggle posted 1/11/2020 03:03 AM

Today was not a good day. Our kids were supposed to have dinner with him and his wife. Due to weather he switched the time to earlier, and that eliminated one kid. He asked our daughter to call his wife direct and speak to her. She didn't want to talk to her.

This has been an ongoing, evolving situation. In two years she has seen her perhaps for 3 times, lasing a couple of hours. My daughter has not processed this and has incredible anger, and unresolved feelings that her father never addressed. She is angry at his wife, even though it's likely she's not really the person she needs to be angry at. I've expected this to blow up like a nuclear bomb when they are together.

She called her dad, told him she wasn't comfortable, wanted to meet them both in private not at a dinner, to talk. She wants to unload 2 years worth of anger on them I'm sure. I know my daughter she will explode, a scene will ensue. Her father will blow up worse, take his wife's side, and it will go south from there.

As relayed by DD, but I was within listening distance, and could hear 80% of what was going on for both of them.

She didn't want her there or to talk to her. He got mad, said that after 2 years they still don't want to be around her, and it's not her fault.

She tried to talk to him, but he became enraged. He switched subjects and started screaming at her. She tried for a bit to explain to him that she needs to talk about the past to process. He told her that the past is done, the present is here, and if she can't move on then he might not talk to her anymore. He backed off that a bit, and went on a long tangent. He wouldn't let her explain that to move onto the present her councilor told her to talk through it. He wants to skip it all.

He began to scream about things from the lawsuit, who was to blame, who screwed him over, and made the conversations about other things. He told her he was done being treated like a dog, told he's a "piece of shit". He had some vile things to say about me, that he wishes he'd never met me, that if he knew then what he knows now he's never have been with me, that I ruined his life.

He was upset he only got a card for Christmas, she asked him why her card wasn't good enough, that she didn't have money what did he expect. He ranted about how he should have had presents.

Then he got worse. She cried. He yelled about how he took care of my f-ing kids when we were together, and she thought he meant her. He was talking about my two biological kids. He was livid. He told her he's ruined, broke, he has no money he can't pay his taxes. He said his career is finished, his business has been ruined, he can't pay his bills, and he's at his wits end. He has no business coming in, no advertising. He said he's in a dark place, and carries a gun for protection. I've never heard someone so angry in my life. I've seen him angry before, this was far beyond anything I experienced in 23 years with him.

He ranted that "your mother" got a pass on this because she gave birth to my children, but he would have destroyed me, and something is going to happen in the next 30-60 days when he has money. He made comments about how your mother is doing financially well, as though he's got someone giving him information. He gave himself a migraine from yelling. They didn't have dinner.


KARMA may have arrived for him, but it's not wrapped in anything satisfying. If his business fails, everyone falls like dominoes. He said his character has been maligned and now no one will hire his company. I'm probably the most stable financially only due to the equity in the house being 100%. He has absolutely nothing to fall back on.

homewrecked2011 posted 1/11/2020 03:44 AM

Yep, he’s a train wreck. Thankfully your child has a counselor! My kids still (8 years out) have to deal with their Dad and the tools the counselor taught them dealing with disordered people really help them now. — such as seeing their Dad on their terms, not taking his “crazy” personally, keeping their distance from Dad when necessary (their mental health comes first), shutting Dad down and ending the phone conversations when they feel threatened, etc.

Thank goodness your child has you.

I’m sure you know not to force a relationship with her and her dad. Just let her know she doesn’t have to be around toxic people- even family. Help her to enjoy what she can control-her own life.

destroyed1 posted 1/11/2020 05:47 AM

OK, I have followed some of your posts before. I'm pretty sure you know you are dealing with a NPD and you probably have done some reading on the subject.

But I wanted to give you this ... from my buddy google, so you can see something.

What triggers narcissistic rage?

There are three primary reasons narcissistic rage happens: Injury to self-esteem or self-worth. Despite an oversized opinion of themselves, people with NPD are often hiding self-esteem that's easily injured. When they're “hurt,” narcissists tend to lash out as their first line of defense.

and

What is a narcissistic rage like?

Narcissistic rage can be defined as intense anger, aggression, or passive-aggression when a narcissist experiences a setback or disappointment, which shatters his (or her) illusions of grandiosity, entitlement, and superiority, and triggers inner inadequacy, shame, and vulnerability.


I honestly believe you might be in danger.

Narcissists will never accept that anything is their fault, even when they know it is. They will always find someone else to blame.

Guess what? YOU ARE IT

You are the target for that rage. Because "if it wasnt for you!!!", see what I mean?

You have likely been the target for a very long time now. Possibly since the day you met this guy. But this is new rage, from a new narcissistic injury, his money problems.

Anybody that knows anything about narcissists will tell you that the best way to hurt them is to take away their money. It seems to be the most important thing to them. After all, they spend all of their money on themselves. So they wont be able to spoil themselves and this brings SERIOUS rage.

Take away their money and you take away their "happiness".

It's like taking candy away from a baby. Not meaning that it is an easy thing to do. But if you have EVER taken a babies candy away while they were eating it ... you saw the rage that happened.

Except this baby carries a GUN and he's pissed off. He is really pissed at himself, but he has turned everything around to you, once again. Because he can never be wrong.

He had some vile things to say about me, that he wishes he'd never met me, that if he knew then what he knows now he's never have been with me, that I ruined his life.

Another fun fact is that NPD's have very shallow emotions.

One of the main emotions they feel ... is ... JEALOUSY.

He made comments about how your mother is doing financially well

he can't pay his bills, and he's at his wits end.

I've never heard someone so angry in my life. I've seen him angry before, this was far beyond anything I experienced in 23 years with him.


He may try to attack you financially, so you suffer money problems too. Or he may try to hurt you psychically. I'm very concerned.

[This message edited by destroyed1 at 6:01 AM, January 11th (Saturday)]

ZenMumWalking posted 1/11/2020 06:15 AM

No Xmas presents, what is he - 4???? Fucking asshole

Please stay safe, both you and your children. Anything documentable with police? Then follow up with a report. You never know when you might need it.

Your poor DD, no child should have to hear that kind of shit. It's going to take years of therapy to undo that.

Don't think about karma or pity. Your only goal now is to keep you and your children safe, physically and emotionally. He's useless and a waste of your time.

((((Muggle and children))))

crazyblindsided posted 1/11/2020 11:15 AM

(((Muggle))) I second the NPD assessment. The times my STBX raged the most were when his view of himself gets threatened. Money is a BIG aspect of his happiness. Currently his business is struggling and he mopes and mopes about how he doesn't deserve this happening. Why didn't he get the fancy car like his friends did. It's all material things he's concerned about. They are petulant children.

Even down to the gifts. If I didn't give a gift that was hundreds of dollars it was looked at like I didn't care about him even though it was the thought that went into the gift. I don't think he has ever liked one of my gifts to him.

Feel so bad for your daughter having to hear his nonsense, but we can only be there to support our kids through this.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 11:16 AM, January 11th (Saturday)]

skeetermooch posted 1/11/2020 12:00 PM

He is frightening. What's going to happen in 30-60 days - something to you? And why does he need a gun? Having financial troubles and a damaged reputation don't necessitate lethal protection.

Please be cautious and stay clear of him.

Phoenix1 posted 1/11/2020 13:02 PM

When my youngest DD was 17 she agreed to have dinner with her father. She told me she was going to confront him and ask for an apology for blowing up the family. I understood why she wanted it, but I warned her not to expect one and that it probably wouldn't end the way she's hoping (I know him too well).

They met, had dinner, talked around the big white elephant in the room and left. As they were walking to the parking lot, she finally asked him when he was going to apologize to her. He asked what for. She said for blowing up the family. Without missing a beat he said, "That's between your mother and me."

She was livid, told him to fuck off, and stormed off to her car.

When she got home that night she told me what happened. Then she started crying. I hugged her and she cried tears of anguish in my arms. First and only time she cried about what happened. Broke my heart because she was always Daddy's Little Princess. She got it out of her system and told me he was now dead to her. That was the last time she saw or spoke to him. It's been over 6 years now.

Your DD is now seeing who her father really is. Keep her in therapy to get help processing this. But don't be surprised if she cuts him out of her life for a while. If she does, don't judge, just continue to support her decision. Her relationship with him is between them, but I'm sorry your DD had to experience that.

For you, he's on a rampage and you are the target of his misplaced anger. Watch your back. I was in that position for a long time, and even had a letter written for DD's in the event of my unusual death (telling them he is likely responsible). Still have that letter, just in case. With these nut jobs you can never be too careful.

Muggle posted 1/11/2020 17:23 PM

For you, he's on a rampage and you are the target of his misplaced anger. Watch your back. I was in that position for a long time, and even had a letter written for DD's in the event of my unusual death (telling them he is likely responsible). Still have that letter, just in case. With these nut jobs you can never be too careful
.

I have spoken to my family and my EX has absolutely ZERO monetary gain if I die. He has a crime scene clean up company, so the potential is REAL if I disappeared. He's not threatened me but my adult daughter has expressed concerns that I could end up as a 60 minutes episode. HIS adult daughter has told me to be careful not to run into him as he might end up in jail, but nothing said that could validate a restraining order.

He may try to attack you financially, so you suffer money problems too. Or he may try to hurt you psychically. I'm very concerned.

I've already been warned by his daughter that he may be trying to come after me in a financial way by starting another lawsuit, or making criminal claims against me. She seems to think he is fabricating or paying someone to potentially set me up for prosecution. I have no proof, just her statements. She will not expose herself to making that claim to law enforcement or an attorney, so I have to wait to see.

He is frightening. What's going to happen in 30-60 days - something to you? And why does he need a gun? Having financial troubles and a damaged reputation don't necessitate lethal protection.
Please be cautious and stay clear of him.

I expect he's going to move across the USA to where his wife lives, or bankrupt the company. He plans to change his phone number, and already stated he will not provide an address. He claims he's moving in the same state we are in, but my suspicion is the dinner was to tell the kids he's moving. He carries a gun as he claims his life has been threatened due to the lawsuit, and those involved. I do not like it, but I can't control it. He refused to let our kids come to his home until this is all over, citing safety concerns.

destroyed1
, I hear every word you said. I'm aware he displays NPD, as the councilor has shed light on it many times. I will always be the one to blame in his eyes.

His daughter sent me some screenshots today, and his wife believes I've poisoned his kids against him. She blames me for destroying him and his children. She does state that he knows he was horrible to me, but he was emotionally gone ages before but only physically there when we ended our relationship. She is also not taking responsibility. She claims he's in therapy, individually and jointly with her, which I believe is a lie. He told our daughter he can't afford therapy.

BearlyBreathing posted 1/11/2020 20:54 PM

Muggle —This all made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. As the others said, keep your eyes open and be careful. I am sorry he is dumping all his sh*t on you and your kids. What a piece of work.

Cooley2here posted 1/11/2020 21:23 PM

I think you need to explain to your daughter that her father really is emotionally about two or three years old. There is nothing she can do to fix it. She needs to be extremely calm when she’s talking to him. She should not show any aggression in their conversations. The best thing she can do is just be very passive when she talks to him. Confronting a narcissist never works out. They are never going to let someone win. If he moves you can breathe again but until then be careful.

Btw, what idiot would work with him to destroy you? He must have some shady friends.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 11:48 PM, January 11th (Saturday)]

Easter posted 1/12/2020 20:08 PM

Your ex sounds much like my father, who abandoned my mother and checked out our lives in my 20s. Though he ran off into the sunset with his “soulmate” he never ceased raging to my mother, brother and I about how awful we were for not being happy for him and never forgave my brother and I for minimizing contact with him after he left. You should prepare your daughter for the reality that she is likely to never get the closure she craves and that someone with his NPD tendencies will never be the father she deserves. It is so hard for a young person to accept and I have spent decades in therapy dealing with the aftermath of having an NPD father. But aside from my H’s cheating I have had a blessed life. My best to her.

Muggle posted 1/13/2020 00:08 AM

My daughter is in counseling. Her therapist has pointed out healthy boundaries and stated her father appears to be the worst case of NPD that she's come into contact with. She hasn't met him but has flatly stated he's got NPD.

The stress of all this is waging war with my health. I have had two nights where I couldn't sleep. I felt like I was going to be sick, my mind running a mile a minute. My stomach was hurting incredibly, but I didn't think it was heartburn. I never get it.

On Friday night I finally got up thinking I was going to be sick. I got sweaty, and dizzy. I lay back down and let the fan blow on me for half an hour and it went away. My stomach pain subsided after a short time.

Last night the same thing happened. I had been dwelling on comments made and was still awake after 3 am. My stomach was hurting again, but it hadn't started hurting until I went to bed. I got up and knew I was going to throw up. I made it to the toilet, then realized I was going to pass out. I usually know when I get dizzy to that point, so I lay down or sit down. I was laying flat on the bathroom floor, and out I went. I remember laying there for a long time, sweaty, with my dog sitting with her head on me. I had brought my cell phone in so I could call one of the kids if I needed help. I couldn't find the phone, and when I tried to raise up I felt dizzy again. I finally found the phone, it was sitting on my stomach. I called my son, and he came from his bedroom. He got me a cold cloth, and it was 4:30 in the morning.

When I felt better he helped me back to my bed, and I fell asleep soon after. I've been drained all day, like I've just gotten over a flu.

I think it may have been anxiety that made me sick, and then my blood pressure may have dropped. I'll go to a doctor when I can. As soon as I started talking about any of this stuff today on the phone with my parents, I felt my heart rate start thumping. Soon as I stopped talking about this mess my heart felt like it was beating normal.


NuckingFuts posted 1/13/2020 10:33 AM

Btw, what idiot would work with him to destroy you? He must have some shady friends.

I have spoken to my family and my EX has absolutely ZERO monetary gain if I die. He has a crime scene clean up company, so the potential is REAL if I disappeared.

If he's crooked some of his crime scene cleanups might happen before the police investigation, and if that's the case he might have some very bad people owing him favors. Muggle, you need to take any threats or warnings very seriously.

EllieKMAS posted 1/13/2020 13:02 PM

He told her that the past is done, the present is here, and if she can't move on then he might not talk to her anymore.

WHAT a DOUCHEBAG.

I am so sorry Muggle and your poor DD Sending you so much good juju right now!

Please take care of you - same rules as day 1 - sleep, eat, drink water. However you have to do those 3 things.

Hugs!!

WorldTraveler23 posted 1/13/2020 13:37 PM

Muggle, don’t want to alarm you but I think you need to go to the ER to be tested for a heart attack. Many of your symptoms match up to what a woman experienced when she’s having heart issues. It can’t hurt to be checked out right?

DashboardMadonna posted 1/13/2020 15:03 PM

Muggle-

I'm sorry. I completely agree with everyone on the NPD... I'm divorcing a covert and my father was an overt.

Speaking as a daughter of an overt and covert, it's completely soul crushing...it lead me into a marriage with a narc, unwittingly.

Your ex sounds very scary mentioning a "dark place" and guns, in the same sentence. My father was a nam vet and I stopped him from suicide twice. He was heading for the safe (where the gun was) in a complete drunken rage....undoubtedly to kill us all....amongst other things he has done to me.

For your daughter and your safety, dont think it's silly in considering a restraining order....it isnt over-reacting....I've lived this and take everything these drama queens say, very seriously. They really havent any self-control and they escalate their abuse...it isnt a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 3:09 PM, January 13th (Monday)]

Lalagirl posted 1/14/2020 13:00 PM

Muggle, don’t want to alarm you but I think you need to go to the ER to be tested for a heart attack. Many of your symptoms match up to what a woman experienced when she’s having heart issues. It can’t hurt to be checked out right?

I was going to say the same thing - please get checked.

Sending you tons of strength & hugs...

EvenKeel posted 1/14/2020 14:17 PM

Good grief - I am so sorry you guys are going through this!

Have you had discussions with her about how some people are toxic? Just because he is her father; doesn't mean she has to put up with this crap?

I get it - I have one of these too. My DD has really cut him off because she is so over his BS but he still tries to do this same crap to her. So I understand.

"and something is going to happen in the next 30-60 days when he has money. He made comments about how your mother is doing financially well, as though he's got someone giving him information." What a bunch of drama. I know it is hard but please try to ignore-ignore-ignore.


I have a ex that I thought might snap and knock me off. I lived years in fear as he stalked my house, snuck into my house, stole my stuff, etc. Finally I decided enough! I wasn't going to worry about it anymore. If he wanted to kill me he could no matter how many locks, security systems and things I did. I put a baseball bat by my bed and went on with my life. Bat is STILL there ten years later.


Control what you can - meaning helping your children deal with their emotions via counseling, etc.


Hang in there Muggle!


Notmine posted 1/14/2020 17:42 PM

Your daughter does not have to talk to him nor should she if he is behaving this way and saying things that are both destructive to her and dysfunctional as hell. Her counselor should be helping her learn to set boundaries with him - one of which should be that she hangs up on him when this infantile crap begins.

Muggle posted 1/14/2020 20:36 PM

Your daughter does not have to talk to him nor should she if he is behaving this way and saying things that are both destructive to her and dysfunctional as hell. Her counselor should be helping her learn to set boundaries with him - one of which should be that she hangs up on him when this infantile crap begins.

The councilor does tell her that his behavior is toxic, and that she needs to establish boundaries. She tells her ways she can cope if she chooses to be around him, and also how to distance herself from him when he acts out. She has told her he will not likely ever change, and she needs to do what's healthy for herself.

Muggle, don’t want to alarm you but I think you need to go to the ER to be tested for a heart attack. Many of your symptoms match up to what a woman experienced when she’s having heart issues. It can’t hurt to be checked out right?

I went to urgent care today, and got checked. My EKG was fine. He told me I'm having stress related symptoms combined with anxiety over the stress. He prescribed me three medications and told me to find a therapist and get relaxation processes in place. He said it was common under the level of stress I've been in for a prolonged period of time.

For your daughter and your safety, dont think it's silly in considering a restraining order....it isnt over-reacting....I've lived this and take everything these drama queens say, very seriously. They really havent any self-control and they escalate their abuse...it isnt a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

If he makes any threats or continues to harass me in any way that I can address legally I won't hesitate to get a restraining order. I have to learn to let go of the worry of the things I can't control. All of our kids are in the same boat, our daughter is just the one that seems to be more confrontational with him.

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