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Hutch posted 9/18/2020 18:25 PM

Hi Thumos,

I, like you, waited to divorce when my younger son turned 18 and finished HS. I can tell you this. Telling them was the hardest thing I have ever done. It broke my heart to do it. I can't say they were shocked as my EX and I were separated over two years, but still, kids always want their parents together. If my boys honestly look back, they remember how it was living under that roof with my EX, but ultimately they love my EX. He is their dad and that will never change. As it should be. They have to work through their struggles and form their relationships with him as young men.

You'll figure out the "technical" parts of divorce. In my opinion figuring out how to navigate a way that is best for your kids will be the hardest. As a parent your heart literally breaks when they are hurting. Both of kids struggled in their own ways. My older (20) keeps a lot in and he processes in silence. When he's ready to talk he does. And he did. He was angry and hurt, but he handled it relatively well. He now accepts two households and the fact that he has a separate relationship with myself and his dad. My younger son (18) is much more emotional and expressive. His hurt manifested in anger. He is still angry and makes comments from time to time. The comments are hurtful and make me very sad. He is still close to me but has been more distant than ever. I pray and keep hopeful that he will be okay. He feels lost from all of this and I understand. The life they knew has vanished and it's hard to accept that. Your kids may go through the same emotions. Just be there for them the best you can be.

To me, that will be the hardest part to navigate. I can honestly say when I made up my mind to divorce, I felt a weight immediately lifted. When it was final, I felt a huge burden lift and I felt free. I have other concerns as you can imagine; starting over is good but it can be scary. At least for me. I'm proud I have a home on my own and I support myself, but then again, I am by myself. I'm okay now. I needed this time. But I would be lying if I say I'm not interested in finding a companion one day. I think we all feel that at some point.

So best advice...I'm terrible at taking my own advice at times...allow yourself to go through the process. Be there for your kids, help them the best you can because it will be hard on them no matter the age, and let yourself breathe and heal.

Hope this helps some.

[This message edited by Hutch at 6:29 PM, September 18th (Friday)]

BrokenheartedUK posted 9/19/2020 15:58 PM

It was almost exactly four years ago this week that my WW commenced her three month affair with a friend of mine.
So much has changed since then. I feel I'm on the right path toward D now and have clarity

The clarity really is the key. For me it came in a bolt of lightning when I realized that my Ex had continued to violate the NC rule.

And SI very much helped me with that. There was a thread early on in my time here about boundaries and consequences and it fortified my determination to hold to those consequences. It's quite something to take guidance here, but there can be moments of profound wisdom.

As for telling the kids, for my kids having seen me fall apart during the R phase, there was a relief. And the fact that I could pull myself out of what felt and looked like a nosedive I think underscored that. My kids actually got me back in the process and I would say that my relationships with all of my kids even improved as a result of the D.

As for whether or not getting a D means that you no longer think about the A... that's a more complicated answer. The resounding relief of not having to be the marriage police was huge. And the detachment when you separate is helpful. I still think about it from time to time. Especially around Dday. But it doesn't hurt in the way it did when I had to look at my Ex's face every day. I do get triggered, I think we all do still, and I accept that. In the end though it was the perspective and clarity of time/distance/IC that I could see the A in the holistic context of the relationship. In other words, his A wasn't an aberration/one off moment of weakness... it was the result of endemic emotional immaturity, entitlement and conflict avoidance. Honestly, the writing was always on the wall but I couldn't read it until long afterwards. You will too.

Browsing41 posted 9/22/2020 10:46 AM

Hi Thumos,
I have been following your thread. When you told us your adulterous wife was reading here I thought she would finally understand what it would take to possibly save your marriage. It appears that hasn't happened.

Did she ever read your thread, if so did she have anything to say about it? Did you notice any changes with her at all sense she's read it.

[This message edited by Browsing41 at 1:05 PM, September 22nd (Tuesday)]

ShutterHappy posted 9/22/2020 21:49 PM

how often do you think about your XWS's betrayal and infidelity know that you have cleaved the pair bond and moved on?

D day for me was winter of 1998... but I don’t remember the date, not even the month. Maybe it’s old age hahaha... wait, that’s not funny.

You can’t really go wrong with D. I firmly believe that a key aspect of D, is to put your XWS in the rear view mirror, stop thinking about him/her and move on to an happy life.

I do feel that there’s anger in your posts. I hope it will fade away... This is what I have learned over the years after my D :

If I stay angry at my XWW, she wins. I’m living in that anger, not her.

If I keep on thinking about my XWW, she wins. Why does she deserve so much of my “mind real estate”?

Your STBXWW doesn’t deserve you. My XWW didn’t deserve me either.

You know, maybe I don’t remember my DDay date because it’s not important.

I hope you will find peace.

Stinger posted 9/23/2020 08:21 AM

I think about it some,but it does not bother me. My kids are all grown,now. I have a good life.

I wonder, Thumos, if you knew fairly early on that this was going to be a dealbreaker, regardless of whatever measures your wife would have taken.

For me, I just knew I am not the type to get past this if I stayed. I think my XW knew this about me, too. She made one or two overtures re reconciling, but I am sure she could see the futility.

KingofNothing posted 9/28/2020 12:20 PM

Just to clear up a loose thread I wasn't sure had been addressed, did you ever have that often delayed discussion of the affair with your son? Has he relegated it to a side matter now that he has formed a brand new peer group at his new school, and you've sort of dodged the bullet, or did this already happen and I've missed it under the mountain of posting?

Thumos posted 9/28/2020 13:16 PM

It’s a side issue bc of new friends group. Dodged the bullet.

Of course I’m divorcing WW so I’m going to have to have a painful convo with him soon. Just trying to think thru the sequence and timing for that.

Also had advice to get him in counseling BEFORE D process gets rolling so he’s used to that setting and sharing his feelings with a therapist in advance of us telling him.

But there’s still the fact that he asked me point blank so I think he needs to know something regarding that situation with his friend.

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:16 PM, September 28th (Monday)]

Thumos posted 9/28/2020 13:19 PM

Hi Thumos,
I have been following your thread. When you told us your adulterous wife was reading here I thought she would finally understand what it would take to possibly save your marriage. It appears that hasn't happened.
Did she ever read your thread, if so did she have anything to say about it? Did you notice any changes with her at all sense she's read it.

She did read some of it. I don’t know if she’s reading this one. Her reaction to reading the first part was to accept it at face value but she also started quibbling/defending on some things. I’m kind of talked out on it with her so I don’t engage much other than to tell her when I’m flooding or feeling depressed or angry or sad. I no longer hide that from her.

Buffer posted 9/29/2020 03:09 AM

What is she arguing about? She cheated big time

Thumos posted 9/29/2020 19:00 PM

She’s not arguing much because I just don’t really provide the opportunity.

Things like:

“I wanted to go on trips and go to concerts before too.” - except when I tried to plan those things in the past I never got very far

Or she’s arguing I’m blowing things out of proportion — such as when she told me my attitude toward sex was immature because I could not grasp that her affair sex was “meaningless”

she says that was said in anger once and she didn’t mean it. Problem is I revisited these and other statements with her over several months and she stuck by them.

Or how she tried to tear down the professionalism of the polygraph examiner and blamed her failure on anxiety. I told her this was a moot point because the polygraph was merely the capstone for a lot of other failures and I wasn’t laying this at the feet of that in any case.

Lots of other examples.

Anyway it’s all water under the bridge for me. I have to admit this stuff just goes in one ear and out the other for me now. I don’t engage.

Because I’m done.

Thumos posted 11/19/2020 09:31 AM

My wife discovered I’ve been to see an attorney. She was rifling thru my paper work and found the packet of info I had.

She thought I’d retained a lawyer.

She’s very naive about the divorce process (as am I) so I explained to her that isn’t how it works and that I had a free consult to better understand the process.

I think she’s getting it now. We had a long talk last night with her reiterating again how much she loves me and doesn’t want a divorce — and ending with her weeping around 2 am and as usual me comforting her.

I had kept from this thread any mention I’ve seen an attorney and talked thru settlement scenarios in detail, but no reason not to mention it now.

As always my intent is for an amicable mediated parting as soon as we can get the house in order and finish paying down some not insignificant debt.

We will see how things proceed but I’m not doing anything until after the holidays.

I have not retained an attorney and hope to avoid that expense. I guess I’ll see what she does now.

devotedman posted 11/19/2020 09:39 AM

While always a possibility, she might choose now to retain her own lawyer and file preemptively. Wouldn't be the first time she's surprised you.

I'm sorry that you're here. Divorce is always a mess.

[This message edited by devotedman at 9:42 AM, November 19th, 2020 (Thursday)]

devotedman posted 11/19/2020 09:45 AM

Sorry, Posting from phone.

I would honestly recommend a lawyer. i my case he was able to put the state-mandated, very specific, wording in the decree that kept her out of my pension and 401K.

JanaGreen posted 11/19/2020 09:58 AM

she might choose now to retain her own lawyer and file preemptively.

That's exactly what my ex did when he discovered I went in for a consult.

TwoDozen posted 11/20/2020 06:00 AM

I find so many similarities between your story and my own and I feel I’m headed in the same direction as you have gone.

11 months in and we have little more than lovebombing and no real attempt to do the hard stuff but desperately trying to save the R with tears and sex

As per your story we have a W that won’t be completely honest ie I think the start of the PA was planned ie in her head or that she intentionally put herself in harms way but I have no way to proof that so she will never cop to it. I confronted during the A and was lead to believe I was going mad, insecure, controlling all the usual as you have mentioned in your story.

I wonder, did you ever share your WW whys?

I mean she wants to save the M so surely it was in no way your fault that she stepped outside the M?

Just interested if you don’t mind sharing.

Thumos posted 11/20/2020 16:28 PM

To answer the above, My WW really won’t drill down on her “whys” or cop to things, like how she planned for sex in our home on a particular day they were both off work and I was out of town.

Her lack of introspection on this is one of the bigger post DDAY issues. At first she did try to blameshift and did a gobsmacking job of rewriting the history of the marriage. She no longer has that to fall back on and now says the pre-A marriage was good and that she was lazy and took it and me for granted.

She’s telling the truth about the essential outlines, but not enough truth and the lingering doubt about other sexual acts and her propensity to hide info and dissemble — as well as failing the poly — just indicate someone who doesn’t want to “get real” for lack of a better term.

I just had a “no shit Sherlock” epiphany this afternoon. My 50th birthday is fast approaching and it is obvious my WW has been putting some effort into planning around it. I could care less about doing some big party and have told her so.

But as I was thinking about it this weekend, I realized my WW is capable of lots of organizational feats and has a lot of energy for it.

But with the divorce my WW is really putting herself first again in not being proactive and helping find a way for us to have a “conscious uncoupling” (to use the more recent term) and a quick amicable divorce.

If she was more proactive we could probably get it done in a matter of weeks. But it’s left to me, the betrayed husband, to pick up the pieces and figure everything out.

If she cared about putting me and my needs first she would seek to help find the quickest route to divorce for my healing.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:31 PM, November 20th (Friday)]

Thumos posted 11/20/2020 16:40 PM

we have little more than lovebombing and no real attempt to do the hard stuff but desperately trying to save the R with tears and sex

A lot of this. I think this is actually somewhat common for WW’s. They don’t know themselves, aren’t very introspective far too often, so they can’t figure out why they would have done what they did. I imagine many of them once they realize truly the damage they’ve caused look at themselves in the mirror and are puzzled by the reflection.

They are horrified by it in retrospect because they realize they had a good marriage they’ve now destroyed. They have a tough time looking squarely at what they’ve done.

I think it relates to the Biblical proverb about the foolish woman who tears down her house with her own hands. Interestingly in this case the Proverb says “foolish” instead of “wicked.” I think my WW is one of the foolish, and yours is too.

The dawning sense of horror over having torn down their house with their bare hands and standing amid the rubble is a mental picture that is haunting and reflects I think an accurate summation of what they are too terrified to face.

So they try to spackle over all of that with minimizations, tears and sex.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:41 PM, November 20th (Friday)]

crazyblindsided posted 11/20/2020 16:45 PM

If she was more proactive we could probably get it done in a matter of weeks. But it’s left to me, the betrayed husband, to pick up the pieces and figure everything out.

If she cared about putting me first she would seek to help find the quickest route to divorce for my healing.

My xWS isn't doing anything to help the process. I hope your WW has more empathy for you. In fact it seems the WS that like to drag things on end up blaming you in the end anyways.

Mine has done a full 180 to where he is the victim and that I never gave him a chance.

He never helped me pack, move, and doesn't pay any child support yet. I'm still getting the legal separation in order with my lawyer, but I expect he will fight it.

waitedwaytoolong posted 11/20/2020 17:02 PM

just had a “no shit Sherlock” epiphany this afternoon. My 50th birthday is fast approaching and it is obvious my WW has been putting some effort into planning around it. I could care less about doing some big party and have told her so.

This seems to be quite common. They view these events and the celebration as a Hail Mary pass. Like if you have this great event, it will be the one big thing that would act as a reset for the damage they caused, and will magically make you realize how great the marriage is.

Her affair was right before a big one in a lifetime trip we had scheduled for our 25th anniversary. Both she and our short lived MC begged me to go on it. I wanted no part of it and canceled so I could at least recoup some of the deposit.

Five years later she came to me with not the same, but a still big trip for our 30th. It was actually the impetus for me to ask for the divorce. I again wanted no part of it and if I didn’t want to go on a special trip with her, why the hell was I still married to her. For her it was a big thing and she really believed after 3 weeks in a paradise type setting, I would fall back in love with her.

This party also smacks of that. Even worse as she probably would revel in the compliments that friends and family would be giving her for throwing what probably would be a good party.

It’s done for you on one level, but really done for them to sidetrack the divorce.

Darkness Falls posted 11/20/2020 17:56 PM

10 1/2 years ago, I didn’t fight my H divorcing me because I deserved it and cared about his healing. However, at the time, and still seems to be somewhat of a common thing on SI, I heard/hear a lot about how the WS should “fight for the marriage” and if they go along with it per the BS’s wishes, they’re “giving up”, “not willing to do the hard work”, “not willing to fight for the marriage”, “the BS obviously isn’t that important to them”, “obviously unremorseful”, and the like. If your W reads here, I’m wondering if possibly she’s internalized the same message?

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