SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I know the stats on this stuff is rather inconclusive but I've noticed quite a few BS's bailing out on their relationships and marriages after several years of a "good" reconciliation.

It seems to happen quite often around the 3 year mark of these people I've met or know.

So even after the WS is being transparent and trying to fix the issues and then time goes on I'm gathering the BS doesn't ever really get over it but heals enough from the initial trauma to want to get out.

As an aside I cannot tell you how many people have felt sorry for the WS "after they did all that work and tried so hard what a slap in the face.. she/he should have said something earlier..yada yada." somehow they felt betrayed.. sheesh.

My flat out response has been even with one of the Ws's present was that every day you got with your BS after you fucked up was a damn gift because the truth is you really didn't deserve any of it. You should be happy she even tried. The fact is you lost her the day you did that it's just that neither of you knew it yet.

[This message edited by Syzy at 6:17 PM, August 4th (Monday)]

Yup. I agree 100%.

As I've said often, I stopped thinking in terms of "forever" on D-day.

It is a side effect of affairs that BS's become constantly aware of the fact that they can walk away any time the relationship stops working for them. This was, of course, true before the A, but most couples consciously ignore it because it isn't very conducive to long-term trust building.

Like it or not, an A reminds the BS that relationships serve a purpose. They should be mutually satisfying...and when they stop being satisfying, there's no legitimate appeal to "history" to keep trying until things get better, because the "history" has already been razed.

Well said, wal.

If I finally leave, fwh is going to have that attitude, that he sacrificed everything for me-- he GAVE HER UP!-- and this is how I repay him?

Syzy, you're right about the WS time with BS is a gift.

My mom and dad had me as a last chance (I was the baby that wasn't cute enough to keept them together )... turns out the OW was pregnant around the same time.

When my mom let go and said you guys can have each other, my dad and his OW started having problems... They lost what they had in common... their complaints about my mom and their affair fell apart and OW started cheating on my dad and my dad was cheating on the OW.

My point was, no matter how screwed up or how good the R was it's a gift.

It's a gift to yourselves for fixing what's broken and it's a gift to your children for giving it a try.

However for those in good R, divorce should not be a back burner plan for both WS and BS. I've seen too many people fail R because they considered divorce as another plan if things didn't work out. Divorce shouldn't be in the vocabulary unless one or both parties decides to not choose marriage anymore.

In a way a WS chose A rather than their marriage hence why they were in that situation in the first place. At least those BS who did choose divorce, chose that other than A. So in a way, consider the D a gift too. The BS's obviously aren't getting what they need. Better a D than an A in my opinion.

I guess it's kind of hard to say. So many marriages end in divorce without infidelity, who is to say that something else wouldn't have pushed the spouse to want a divorce during a 3 year period?

I certainly don't disagree that R is a gift from the BS and the WS can't expect much more than his or her effort.. the straw that led to divorce court could be, or could have been, something completely different.

Syzy-

Great post. Wow, you hit on an ore mine!

For me, the A made me recalibrate. Through the hurt, I realized the lack of satisfaction in my M was not going to work for me for the rest of my life.

I changed, and demanded that my M measure up in some level of satisfaction. I looked at her A as permission to end the M and pursue my happiness, if the proper effort was not made.

I do not look at WS's time after the A as a gift. I have put a lot of unrewarding effort into this M.

In a twisted way, I look at her A as a gift, in that it forced me to make changes and grow up. I no longer feel "stuck". On the contrary, I feel liberated.

However, once a spouse walks through that door, there is no walking back. They make an irretrievable decision to alter the marriage. It is a high-stakes game of "chicken", and the mutation that the marriage becomes is anyone's guess.

I learned more about my spouse than I really wanted to, and learned to respect the person I became more than I realized I could.

This is a tough one in that there could have been other issues that existed before the A.

It could also be that the BS can only get so far in the R process.

Another idea is that something comes up that is completely unrelated to the A and there is just too much previous damage for the marriage to survive.

When all is said and done, there are probably as many reasons that people get divorced as there are people that get divorced.

I agree with Syzy in that it would be very interesting to see better statistics on this topic.

I've only seen a few numbers and they seem vague and contradictory...hmm, that sounds like some of my FWW's stories, but I'll leave that for another thread.

Great...my 3 yr mark is next week...

I know a lot can go on that contributes to marital dissatisfaction besides the A.

These cases were very specific as the affair was decidedly what caused the end when i spoke to or someone spoke to me about the breakup.

I was just noticing that for most of these people it seemed to hit around that 3 year mark which I thought was really interesting.

They all (about 5 now which isn't a large sample pop by any means) said they thought they could get past the affair, their spouses/so's had done whatever they could and the fact was they just couldn't get over it even though things weren't "bad" or even better than they had been before Dday.

They left to seek out a relationship that just didn't contain an Affair in it's history. So yeah that got me thinking about how many Bs's despite a good transparent reconciliation leave anyway.

You see I didn't have the chance to reconcile but I now believe I would be in the above group.

I'm kinda getting that if a WS is going to leave for the affair partner or leave in general it is going to happen within 3-6 months or so. I'm starting to wonder when the BS leaves due to the affair (if it isn't immediately) and its looking like a couple of years later once the dust has settled.

[This message edited by Syzy at 7:45 PM, August 4th (Monday)]

Hell, Syzy, I'm constantly amazed that I'm not in that group already.

I have filed for divorce, 4 years out. I am now living through all the fears I had of leaving. A horrible, mean, divorce. He has told the kids I broke up the marriage, i.e. I filed, he still thinks the affair has nothing to do with the ruins our marriage became. His comments are "it happened four years ago.", get over it.

Anyway, I stopped being in the marriage a while ago, tried to fake it for a long time but couldn't do it.

It is shocking to me though the depth of his anger and the lengths he is going to to make me pay for "breaking up his family,"

I guess my point is, you probably know after a couple of years where you are and should not be guilted into staying in the marriage by a spouse who is "doing all the right things."

I am still paying for his infidelity.

In my opinion, any time a WS (or FWS) says "I did everything I could to make up for my A" with a sense of entitlement to the relationship, they're essentially saying they've made amends.

There are no sufficient amends for infidelity. None.

NC, transparency, all of that shit -- those are minimum standards for creating an environment hospitable for R. They are not anything "above and beyond the call of duty". Making a habit of flowers, gifts, caring & selfless behavior -- those aren't amends, either. That's, once again, minimum standards for being in a loving, exclusive relationship.

Too often, I hear "I did everything", where "everything" translates more accurately to "I did what 99% of married people do in marriage". Why that seems to be exceptional behavior that deserves special consideration, I have no idea.

I've read where it is common for a BS to want to D 2 - 4 years out from d-day.

I am a yr from when I felt in my gut that something was up. I feel I no longer love my WW like I once did, & don't feel I CAN get over it. The frist couple mos past Dday I still loved her, but now I cannot get over what she did. Those feelings of missing her when she's gone, wanting to touch her, longing, caring, wanting to see her 24/7-all gone.

I know my feelings have changed. The notion of til death is just as much bullshit words as forsaking all others was.

yeah there really aren't sufficient amends for infidelity are there.

I mean doing everything you can is great it is just you should have done it before so that is hardly much of a consolation for the BS.

I'm sorry your H is guilting you and getting ugly meg. I think yes sometimes the love does slowly die after such an act even when the WS wants the R and does what they can.

An environment hospitable to R maybe necessary to stay but doesn't guarantee love will still not die. It is understandable that your feelings have been altered and may continue to decline.

Wokeup that is interesting. In all the reading I've done on this subject I've never come across any information like that which is partially why I posted this question.

I don't know how the hell I'm going to make it to the 2 year mark. I'm not even 2 months from d-day, and I'm wanting to fly.

Yeah - I want a life, a relationship with no Affair in the history. She can't offer me that.

I actually overlooked that when I forgave her for the first two after d-day 1.

I don't see any chance in hell of overlooking this mess.

I don't want the old marriage back, because it was obviously a lie.

After d-day #2, I welcomed her back to my house by literally tying yellow ribbons in our oak tree. I guess I'm the liar now.

[This message edited by toonice at 10:58 PM, August 4th (Monday)]

that's a good insight..

I've noticed this too syzy. some time ago I read where a divorce lawyer said that 90% of marriages end due to infidelity. he said it was interesting in that a spouse will tolerate abuse, drugs, etc but when the bond is betrayed it is usually the beginning of the end -if not sooner, then a few years later. in these 'later' cases, infidelity is not usually the reason sited but the extra push to stay together had already been broken. the 2-3-4 yrs mark makes perfect sense as that is generally when a bs starts to get back on her/his feet again.

I now believe I would be in the above group.

me too and it helped me put it in perspective.

I've read about this as well. One article mentioned the marital relationship being forever changed> The basic tenet is that we all want to be loved by a spouse to the exclusion of all others. And, a BS has tangible proof that that is not possible with a WS.

Another author did a survey of male BS's. Her research showed that most maleBS's(and this may applyto female BS's, too.),have a knee jerk reaction to the trauma of betrayal based on both fear of the unknown and a sense of competition with the OM. They "compete" for the WW with the OM. But, if the WW decides to stay, the vast majority of these BH's regret remaining in the relationship.

I was ver traumatized my my XWW's betrayl. I was panicked and wanted to R. But, on some level, I realized it was my get out of jail free card from a relationship with an abusive NPD. Despite the pain, it worked out well for me. The affair brought to light her true nature and all the abuse that had happened throughout the years. Her family supported me and informed me of her sordid past(multiple affairs as an OW, a history of lying about all types of things, and financial irresponsibiliy that predated our marriage.)

Her affair was just the last straw for them and I maintained my good relationships with her folks, siblings and extended family.

I think in the first stages of D-day, or even several months after, the BS is still trying to sort out, and sift through the emotions that build up in the aftermath of an a. Those BS's that decide to stay with the WS do so, but seem to do it in a very resentful manner due to the hurt they are feeling. I am not entirely sure that any BS can truly ever get over the sting of an a and the long lasting effects it has on the marriage.

The way I see it, it's like when you step in a pile of dog shit. You try your best to scrape it off but the smell lingers on.

[This message edited by TICKED OFF at 1:44 PM, August 5th (Tuesday)]

Syzy, this is interesting and we are at the 3 year mark of R.

...So even after the WS is being transparent and trying to fix the issues and then time goes on I'm gathering the BS doesn't ever really get over it but heals enough from the initial trauma to want to get out.

...The fact is you lost her the day you did that it's just that neither of you knew it yet.

Wow, both of these statements really hit home with me!!! And the last one gave me chills.

I might just now be coming to that place...

I posted in R a few months ago that H was *now* doing everything right...being a good husband, trying hard to fix things with us, declares his undying love and faithfulness daily. But that doesn't help me...I'm not complaining, because things are really good now and I wanted to R. But the truth is things weren't that bad when he had his A and there are so many aspects of that which I cannot reconcile myself with.

There's a hole in my soul that just won't heal. Three years past his confession and five years past the end of his A.

In the beginning I thought I could do this. I've always been a "never give up" person but in this case, it may have been just too much in the end.

And right on that it's a GIFT!!!! And if I can't make it in the end, then at least he will have done some desperately needed work on himself.