SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Too often, I hear "I did everything", where "everything" translates more accurately to "I did what 99% of married people do in marriage". Why that seems to be exceptional behavior that deserves special consideration, I have no idea.

While not unusual, I have the same mindset as WaL.

Being an average spouse after having an A doesn't cut it. If that were the case, where do I sign up? (That was joke for the sarcastically impaired).

My FWW is now, very slowly, starting to "get it". But only after I damn near walked out the door two weeks ago. I still have one foot out, but but as sad as it is, it's the hokie-pokie at the moment.

_CG

I am a yr from when I felt in my gut that something was up. I feel I no longer love my WW like I once did, & don't feel I CAN get over it.

I know we all talk about the plain of lethal flatness but what if it is more than that. Not just a lack of feeling but on some level knowing your love is diminished. What if it isn't about ever getting over it but learning just to live with it. which seems to be so hard to imagine since I'm now not in that relationship anymore. I'm in an affair free relationship right now (strange to think of it like that but I do) and even that is very very hard due to how I've been changed by this. Trying to open up and trust what is really going on with us causes me serious bouts of panic. I don't know how to believe I'm really loved or even put full stock in what she says. Forget about trying to contend with the extracurricular sex and outlandish displays of love at all costs if I had remained with my ex.

I try to imagine it now and I think I would feel so void and would yearn for something else even if I still loved her. But even more so if loving her didn't really bring me joy on some level any longer.

Ron I panicked too right after dday and wanted to reconcile but I also knew that the ending of us was for the best. It is just that I wasn't ready for it to be over. I really couldn't look as far into the future as I needed to because my present was so destroyed.

And crushed I was cheated on in a relationship that was really good and reconciling with that is almost harder than if we'd had problems. I don't know how on earth you get over it or how it ever compares again when your relationship was actually good and seemed healthy.

It is sorta like being in that horror movie where strange bad things keep happening and there is this pregnant mystery. And then at the very end when you and your costar make it somewhere safe they turn to you with this look and you realize they were the killer all along.

[This message edited by Syzy at 1:35 AM, August 5th (Tuesday)]

This post really hits home. I am about two and a half years out. FWW never really got the intensity of the pain she brought to the marriage by what she did, although she seemed genuinely remorseful at one time.

But she has far from the spouse who told me after it happened that "she would do everything in her power to spend the rest of her life making it up to me".

She has been a marginal if sometimes hostile presence.

Several months ago, we were at a bar, and I went to put her coat away, and as I returned, a young, drunk guy had his arm around her.

I didn't say anything. The next day at home, she told me, in front of our teenager, that guy whispered in ear that he wanted to "play motorboat".

My young daughter asked her if she would ever do that.

She said she would never go home with another guy "unless he was really young and cute."

This brought back the incredible pain of the infidelity, as well seeing what a brazen, inconsiderate person I was married to.

Eleven days ago, I told her I believed it was over. She hasn't processed this yet. She wants to work it out. She doesn't get it.

I have learned to live with the A, but my tolerance for the margin of error is smaller.

When there is a marital flare-up, I do look back, and see that in the rear view mirror, and ask myself how much more of this I really want.

So I guess I am one of these statistics. I have given this M my best shot, and decided I can't do it on my own. I will take my chances on my own.

<So many marriages end in divorce without infidelity, who is to say that something else wouldn't have pushed the spouse to want a divorce during a 3 year period?>

Absolutely! I was at the 3 year mark--R was going spectactular-our M was better than it had ben in years and my life and my M turned on a dime-in an instant. And it had nothing to do with infidelity. It was a very serious drug addiction. And THAT led me to divorce.

So, in spite of our 'wonderful' R and seeming happiness, I couldnt overcome dealing with a drug addict. Dont forget that the statistics say that 60% of ALL marriages will end in divorce.

I don't pay much attention to statistics because they all contradict each other. However, I do accept that about 50% of all marriages will end in divorce, and of those, personally, I believe infidelity plays a part in the majority of the marriages that end.

My first M ended in divorce. My own philosophy was to make this as easy as possible for HIM. I realize this is extremely rare the first lawyer I talked to did not get my business because all he could talk about is what I needed to "go after" financially. I had been a SAHM and after the D I would be a single woman with three small children.

Because I made every effort possible to be "nice" to my X in the divorce, the results were surprisingly positive. He ended up getting the kids almost every weekend, a lot during the summer, and a lot during vacations (though I made sure I was the one with "legal" custody.) It was never called joint custody, but in reality it was probably as close to joint custody as it gets. I feel he was far more generous with the kids when he had them with him, than he would have been otherwise. He even helped me out some by getting me wood for my stove and other such things. I did not like depending on him for anything though and was determined not to. We agreed on an amount for child support (less than what the courts would have ordered) and I told him as long as he paid it every month, I would never take him to court. Now the kids are grown and gone and in all those years, I never once had to take him to court. There was not one bit of fighting in our divorce. The only negative vibes actually came from his new woman who was to become his new Mrs, who, by the way was the final OW from our M. While she spent a lot of time in courts with her own custody situations, she gave me no credit at all for how "nice" I was to her man, and even her, under the circumstances. In fact, I knew she believed he was "too generous" and that I was (of course) greedy and cheap. The only thing we came close to fighting over when splitting our material stuff was my stereo. I was really the only one who used the thing throughout our M. And when we split, suddenly he wanted it and thought he should have it! Boy did I see through that one! (It was his new woman who thought they should have the stereo). I kept the dang stereo!

My second H cheated as well, but we have R'ed.

Every so often, I worry about and ponder this very subject.

Gratuitous rambling ahead...

I kind of see this type of betrayal having the same sort of outcome as making a horrible first impression on someone. Or someone making a horrible first impression on you. If you doubt someone's intentions, have been burned by someone, or abused in some way, it is very hard for that person to make up for that sort of thing and there be no residual worry or distaste. Most of the time, you decide that taking a chance on that person is not worth the effort, especially when other people are making perfectly good impressions on you all of the time.

When it comes down to it, I just don't have the patience like I used to to put up with crap anymore, and my patience grows more thin daily. I don't know for sure if the person I married has my back or if he's going to stab me in the back. I think it's pretty pathetic that my WS and I are at this point after over 18 months of reconciliation, but how many times can a person say "Tommorrow is a New Me!" before it's considered crying wolf?

As Wincingatlight mentioned, I don't see things in the "forever" mindset anymore. It is neither prudent nor desirable to me anymore. I have changed so much that I would not recognize the old me and am very frequently talking myself down from doing something hasty.

During a discussion with someone well over a year ago, we both decided that immediately after Dday, lots of BSs look at the relationship with rose colored glasses and categorize it as a much better marriage than it actual was. I know I did. Who wants to look at their marriage and see a pile of rubble? Sometimes there are financial situations that don't permit divorce immediately. Lots of BSs feel horribly guilty at the thought of breaking up the family unit and disappointing the kids. Rarely ever does a WS take the time to ask themselves would everyone be okay emotionally or financially before they go out and destroy the marriage, so we're left holding the bag.

I also think that a great number of BSs, especially women, wait a certain amount of time to see if the sexual relationship is going to improve before he/she makes a serious decision. This is a big deal and a big consideration for me as a woman. Sexual incompatibility is one thing when you're happy in a stable marriage, but it's beyond frustrating after you've been cheated on. I can't imagine going the rest of my life being this sexually frustrated, as I'm only in my early 30's now.

And, after awhile, anger sort of dissolves into compassion for WS. I see some of the things my WH does and I think sometimes that we are completely different people, with totally different senses of morality and what we desire out of life. I feel almost like a criminal for "holding" my WH in a marriage and lifestyle that is rigid and doesn't come naturally to him. Doesn't everyone involved deserve an equal shot at being happy?

In the end, there are clear cut choices, but none of the choices thrill me all that much. Either live with a person you love but who disregarded you and treated you like very interchangeable shit or strike out and try it all over again with someone else. I barely have the passion it requires to even picture a future with someone else, much less take the steps to achieve it if I decided to try.

I asked my husband recently if he'd be shocked if, in the next year or so, I gave up and initiated divorce. He said that he would be shocked and caught off guard.

It's very hard when you love someone. There are some lulls every now and then, but it never really stops hurting.

[This message edited by sparklemotion at 6:12 AM, August 5th (Tuesday)]

It is almost 2 years out and I am thinking about filing for divorce in September. On dday, I was so in shock that I couldn't wrap my head around what had happened and he was gaslighting me to death. It was like living in the twilight zone! It took 7 full months and the help of SI to really get to the truth of what he did and who he did it with. As the saying goes De Nile (or denial) is not just a river in Egypt NOW he is trying hard for R and it seems not to matter much anymore. Throw in the fact that he was cruel and very physically and verbally abusive during the affair and for the last year and a half after dday and you can see why him saying "he loves me" really doesn't matter much at this point.

Ron7127,

You nailed it: "The basic tenet is that we all want to be loved by a spouse to the exclusion of all others. And, a BS has tangible proof that that is not possible with a WS."

-That, ALONE, pretty much kills it, doesn't it.

I am 3 1/2 yrs out. It is dilusional thinking on the part of a WS to assume that being the 'good', dutiful WS makes everything all better.

R requires sooooo much more than 'foresaking' others, going to work everyday, and doing home improvements. I don't think most WS get this. Over time, maybe several years, the BS continues to be 'starved' of what is needed on a deep, personal, intmiate level to truely heal and repair the M.

And, it takes 2, 3, maybe 4 yrs before the BS gets true clarity about their WS and their M. Mostly because they do not WANT to give it up. But, they realize eventually that they have to. It is just ruined. Period.

Well, I am a "statistic" of a BS who had to get a divorce, but I was two years out and in my case, there was no transparency, no remorse. Just more lying, cheating, sneaking around etc.

I wonder how many of us are statistics of sick spouses who never get better?

WaL said,

It is a side effect of affairs that BS's become constantly aware of the fact that they can walk away any time the relationship stops working for them.

This is a constant battle for me 4 yrs later. Obviously this is not an attitude that is conducive to a marriage, but it shows how hard it is to repair the damage.

Excellent tread y'all! Very good points being made.

this topic really hits home with me.(3 yrs out NOW )My fww has been great,done all the "right things",but i still think of the big D all the time. The whole problem is , I don't think a ws can ever see all the damage the a causes,( they simply can't,it would kill them )so they might not see the D coming 3 or 4 yrs out.God....it still hurts

There are a lot of good points made on this thread. I don't know where I am, it's kind of scary.

WH says that everyday I give him to prove himself is a gift. I feel like I managed to 'live with' his 'EA' w/ my friend after '99. Now though the truth is out and I am processing two As at once. Can I do it? Can I move past it?

My belief system is that I need to forgive, I am even working on forgiving both xOW. So I think, well, if the M can be salvaged and the kids can grow up seeing a good M, then shouldn't I try?

Then other times I feel as though there's just too much. That I can forgive through D just as well as through R.

I keep coming back to the fact that WH knows each day is a gift. That the kids deserve to see parents together, working through their problems in a healthy way. And, after reading SI, to me every relationship seems like there will be infidelity involved, nobody is safe. So I almost feel like if I leave, I will just be alone the rest of my life. Better to risk it w/ WH, who has finally faced just how destructive infidelity is, right?

Better to risk it w/ WH, who has finally faced just how destructive infidelity is, right?

I think many modern day strong women will say that it is better to be happy with yourself single than settle for someone less than what they should be.

On one hand I agree, but on the other hand, I realize we are all human. On this board, I think we have a general feeling that BS = good person, WS = bad person but I don't see it that way. Even though I don't think my H (either of them for that matter) had any valid reason to cheat on me, I also know I'm not a perfect person and neither are any of us.

I love having a partner (a husband) who loves me and accepts me in spite of my faults, and to a large degree, I'm willing to do the same thing for him. I won't tolerate (any more) cheating, and with cheating so rampant, I would have to agree with Holly that probably my best chances of NOT getting cheated on again, are to stay with the husband that I have. I don't want to be single and I'm not afraid to admit that even though I believe I am a relatively strong woman.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 8:55 AM, August 5th (Tuesday)]

They left to seek out a relationship that just didn't contain an Affair in it's history.

This is something that often turns and turns in my mind...

Believe me, if I ever have to live through this hell again, it will be alone. I'd rather be single the rest of my life. Right now though, my risk assessment is that WH has refocused his life, acknowledged and took to heart the damage that he has done (not only the cheating) and knows just what he has to loose.

Any future partner wouldn't have nearly two decades of history, the 'first love factor' or the kids as motivator. In addition to being forced to do the hard work on himself and face his inner demons.

If this tanks, I honestly can imagine being single forever than risk getting into a pristine relationship and being betrayed yet again.

In my opinion, any time a WS (or FWS) says "I did everything I could to make up for my A" with a sense of entitlement to the relationship, they're essentially saying they've made amends.

There are no sufficient amends for infidelity. None.

NC, transparency, all of that shit -- those are minimum standards for creating an environment hospitable for R. They are not anything "above and beyond the call of duty". Making a habit of flowers, gifts, caring & selfless behavior -- those aren't amends, either. That's, once again, minimum standards for being in a loving, exclusive relationship.

Too often, I hear "I did everything", where "everything" translates more accurately to "I did what 99% of married people do in marriage". Why that seems to be exceptional behavior that deserves special consideration, I have no idea.

Perfectly said!

Wow Pugwash

She said she would never go home with another guy "unless he was really young and cute."

She just doesn't get it, does she.

Awesome thread!!!

(((meg4))) - that is so typical of many WSes - they cheat, effectively killing the marriage, and then blame the BSes for ending it and try to get the kids to go against the BSes.

I hope your kids can see through that or at least will see through that in time.

potion said:

It is dilusional thinking on the part of a WS to assume that being the 'good', dutiful WS makes everything all better.

R requires sooooo much more than 'foresaking' others, going to work everyday, and doing home improvements. I don't think most WS get this. Over time, maybe several years, the BS continues to be 'starved' of what is needed on a deep, personal, intmiate level to truely heal and repair the M.

And, it takes 2, 3, maybe 4 yrs before the BS gets true clarity about their WS and their M. Mostly because they do not WANT to give it up. But, they realize eventually that they have to. It is just ruined. Period.

Boy, does this resonate with me....6 months out and FWS is always "doing" something around the house...booking concerts...taking me out to dinner....but the fact of the matter is, I am not HEARING the things I need to heal.....he says he is sorry, says he loves me (I quit saying it and never will again)....and has moments of illumination where I believe he "gets it."

Yet, I feel he is purposely withholding the words I need to hear to know that he deeply regrets and is remorseful....

In my mind, when he says he can't be the man I expect him to be....I hear he WON'T be the man he SHOULD BE....

I think about leaving all the time...and I am not comfortable or happy ANYWHERE....so where am I going to find that other than say 10 years out of this mess...

My whole marriage is tainted...I now wonder if he has not cheated on me before...after all I would have bet my LIFE that he would NEVER cheat on me...NEVER in a million years...but he did...makes me wonder about all those nights he came down the road late.....and I never suspected anything..

He has ruined so many things for me....I am nowhere near being able to forgive and may never be able to...I may just have to go to get away from the bad feelings and memories....

Sad, sad, sad beyond words.

[This message edited by Lost&Hurt at 11:56 AM, August 5th (Tuesday)]

The problem with statistics is that they are only as good as the data used as input.

In divorce, and infidelity, that data is almost certainly inaccurate. Possibly hugely so.

Most all states are no-fault. The grounds on my divorce mention nothing about infidelity. Not one word. It is about irreconcilable differences, and emotional cruelty. That's it. Standard fare. The lawyers usually choose the wording and the grounds when we file, or at least advise.

So, how many divorces, especially a few years out from D-Day, will actually state infidelity as the reason? Probably hardly any. I'd lay my rent on those being labeled "irreconcilable differences". This is all you would find in searches of the public divorce records.

The stats are almost worthless, IMHO.

Even if you interview thousands of people, how many would not admit to infidelity being a contributing factor? My guess, a lot.

I suspect (and can only suspect, as I have no empirical data) that a huge percentage of divorces involved cheating. It may not have even been uncovered. The problems it causes between the spouses could be enough by themselves to precipitate divorce, without ever having an affair revealed or discovered.

I suspect that many BS's cannot come to grips with things even years into a reconciliation, with the WS doing everything right. This is one event that is so pervasive. Life-altering, and lasting.

After a long period of time, a BS may simply be unable or unwilling to deal with the memories and the fallout, the damage to the relationship, to want to continue. I can certainly get that.

I'd agree that a few years down the road into an R may be a pivotal time, for most of the reasons already mentioned here. It's enough time for the BS to decide what they really want, once all the drama and shock has worn off, and after they get a picture of what a life with their WS will really be like.

Many cannot live with it.

Even then, the most likely scenario I could envision when they file for divorce?

"Irreconcilable Differences".

It tells no story at all, but therein lies the basis for all the statistics we see. I think they are hugely flawed.

-Defiance

[This message edited by Defiance at 12:07 PM, August 5th (Tuesday)]