SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

A week or so ago I really had a bad trigger after some trickle truth came to light. I realized that I still did not have all the info about the ONS, web-sites, and "friends". I tried to make a list of all the questions that are floating constantly through my head and WH said he wanted to ask MC first if he should answer them.

I addressed this in my next IC and was told that every WS has a right to ask anything they want however, statistics show that the more a WS asks questions the greater the chances the marriage will end in divorce. Has anyone else heard this or experienced it first hand.

When WH had his IC the counselor told him that I was at the "sh*t or get off the pot" stage in letting this stuff go. If I didn't find a way to move on soon then we probably wouldn't reconcile. What!? It's only been 2 months and I'm supposed to be able to put this past me? Please chime in with thoughts and advice.

WH had his IC the counselor told him that I was at the "sh*t or get off the pot" stage in letting this stuff go

Sorry, not to over generalize but was the IC a man?

Seriously? No you are not going to get over this in 2 months. You are lucky you are standing at two months.

It's a process that takes on average 2-5 years to recover. YEARS not months.

statistics show that the more a WS asks questions the greater the chances the marriage will end in divorce

Do you both have the same IC? This is ridiculous. I want to see the source on that statistic. Sounds as if this IC might have been a WS at one time and is great at deflection. WOW.

You need to ask what you need to ask in order to feel safe again and as often as you need to.

So this IC wants to limit the questions (rugsweeping) and fast track the healing?

I would begin looking for another IC that specializes in marriage issues.

It took me 3 to find the right one. The first one told me to get a massage and I would feel better. And that having sex would be the best way to start to move forward (this was 3 days after Dday)...needless to say, I didn't go back to him.

Good luck.

That is so offensive, and very bad counselling, IMHO. What I have found is that the truth, although it hurts like nothing else ever, is what is bringing healing. I know that my H will tell me the truth, even if it hurts me. I know that every truth he gives me is a 'gift' - it is something he has chosen to give to me, rather than keep it to himself, because I have asked him to. With every truth I have to make the choice again to forgive, but you really can't forgive what you don't know. You can only forgive what you know.

If he is withholding truth, it is to protect himself, and that is going to interfere seriously with his ability to be trustworthy in the future.

Let your H and that counselor know that IF a WS is unwilling to answer the questions asked by the BS then, YES, divorce is probably more likely. However, if the WS is able to realize the incredible damage they caused by cheating, own their behavior and make a huge effort to repair that damage (including being honest, answering questions and being transparent) then the marriage has an excellent chance of surviving.

As for the IC comment on finding a way to let it go, I'd be finding another IC for my h to see.

Not all IC's are capable of handling clients dealing with infidelity. In fact some are ws's themselves. Anyone who thinks you can get over this in a few months is living in a fantasy land. Those betrayed spouses who never ask questions are sweeping the crap under the rug. One day it will erupt with a vengeance.

It is about showing respect for me as a human being, and respecting my right to make an informed decision about my own future.

Does your H agree with the "shit or get off the pot" theory at this stage?

If so, you may want to give him what he wishes for.

Seet Jiminy Christmas, this is the 3rd crappy counselor post today!!!

Um, first of all you are getting your H's take on what the counselor told him correct? You were not actually there, right? You know he hasn't been 100% honest with you, so what are the chances he is being honest with the counselor? Or even better that he is being honest with you on what the counselor told him?

IF- That was what the counselor told him, then I highly doubt they know about all the TT, if they did they would understand your need to get questions answered. When you only get bits and pieces and they don't jive, and fit together that leads to more questions. You have to get the answers so that you can put that puzzle together in your head. Until you do, it's hard to start healing. I think it's BS that your counselor told you Q's lead to D too. I would ask for the studies. If they can't produce you know they are full of it.

I will tell you and many others here will as well that TT is what leads to D. It's not the act of infidelity, it's the repeated lying, and omissions of truth that will kill an M.

Sorry you got shitty info, and now have to question your reasoning. You are right and they are wrong.

(((and strength)))

the counselor told him that I was at the "sh*t or get off the pot" stage in letting this stuff go

WHAT?! I am still new to all of this, and even I know this is bullsh*t. I have been reading posts from BS who are years out from D-Day, and they still can't "let it go." That's not how it works anyway. Infidelity is not something one simply "gets over." Jeez.

Are you sure those weren't your husband's words and not the IC? Maybe he thought if it came from a professional you'd buy it? Find out which one is full of crap, and then get rid of them.

I'm with tush. What is UP with the crappy counselor posts? I just responded to another one in R.

Your IC needs to be slapped silly.

I would almost guarantee that the marriages that ended in divorce because of the *questions* asked ended that way because the responses were "I don't know," "I don't remember," "I don't have to tell you that,""you need to stop obsessing over this stuff," or "geesh, get over it already."

And your WS's IC gets a *pass* from me right now because I'd bet dollars to donuts that your WS has not been honest about the level of deception and non-transparency that is occurring and he's probably in there telling the IC that he's doing all that he can but *you* just won't let it go. If the info that the IC is receiving is shit, then the advice given is gonna be shit too. Although Sultan just texted me this recently:

I have also had multiple doctors tell me once the spouse knows you cheated, that is all the truth needed for forgiveness and moving on.

.....so if your WS's IC agrees with this line of thinking, then we need to slap him silly too.

Thanks for all the response and I'll try to address everyone's questions:

1Faith - our MC/IC is a woman. She has been married 2 other times to men who cheated. She seems very happy with hubby #3.

Plainpain - I agree with you. I feel like if I could just get all these lingering questions/doubts/assumptions out my head and cleared they better I will be. It might hurt like hell and cause 7 levels more pain but at least I know what all I'm working through instead of bits popping up here and there. I'm already tired of feeling like I'm starting all over everytime new info comes to light.

tushnurse - the statistics on asking questions came up in my IC session but yeah - the shit or get off the pot came up in WH session. Sometimes I feel like we are each getting a different message in IC. Wouldn't that just screw people up!?

I'm not happy with how the MC piece of counseling is going. Unfortunately, I do like how she's helped me identify and start working through some of my FOO issues. I'm also afraid that if I pull the plug on the MC piece WH will have ammo to just walk away and say that I'm not really trying. I know that is bad mental talk on my part but that's the reality I'm living in these days.

Thank you all for the positive reinforcement that I'm not being crazy here.

Well, then my whole R goes against the grain of societal norm if you believe that counselor. I asked questions, thousands upon thousands of them if you add them all up, over the course of probably around 18 months to 2 years or so. I asked a question every time I needed to, I asked hundreds of questions in the early days, and I got each and every little detail there was to be had. I needed that to heal, H needed that to help get it all out so he could heal with me as well.

We are now almost 6 years into successful R, and our M is amazing! We have bumps, just like everyone, but we handle them in a completely different, and healthy, way then we ever have.

I have the entire timeline posted in my profile, you can read a pretty detailed and timed account of how R worked for us, and you can also see that it was a LONG process before I even decided that I would want to stay married, not something that anyone can say after just 2 months.

When I see counselors say garbage like that, I always want to ask them "so would you tell a rape victim that after 2 months they need to stop having nightmares and scanning crowds to see if they spot their rapist? Would you tell a person who just lost a child to death 2 months ago that they need to just hurry up and have a baby already and stop grieving the child they lost?" Seriously, I've seen many people post on here stating that their own rape affected them less than their WS's infidelity.

Find a new MC and IC.

statistics show that the more a WS asks questions the greater the chances the marriage will end in divorce

Actually, SI statistics shows that the more the WS refuses to answer questions or lies, the greater the chances the marriage will end in divorce.

Personally, I would be looking for a new IC any time a doctor started giving me "statistics". Statistics can be manipulated and, frequently, the "tests" are downright flawed. Ask where he/she got his/her statistics.

And get the book "Not Just Friends". There is also a book you can download for your spouse called "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair". The first book will help you both understand how the other feels, help you set boundaries, and help you understand what really works for healing. The second title is self explanatory. It's short and to the point in case your spouse doesn't like to read.

Those of us in the reconciliation forum who have been reconciled for many years will tell you that the couples who have stayed together successfully had a remorseful spouse who answered questions as needed, not a BS who was just willing to "shit or get off the pot." And most of us took a couple of years to feel normal again, not have triggers, and not have questions.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 1:19 PM, August 7th (Wednesday)]

That's crazy. My counselor says I would have trouble moving on if I don't get all the answers to my questions.

(((Phoenix9572)))

Just took a quick scan of your story and feel ready to weigh in on your WH's IC's remarks.

F*CK THAT NOISE!

Others have said it well. This is major-league trauma. When determining what's "reasonable", look at analogous major-league traumas: no one has to be over anything this huge after such a slight span of time. Ridiculous. Either the IC is a clueless nimrod or your WH is twisting the IC's words or possibly even making them up.

Here's the deal: your WH cheated. He's the one that broke the bond. If what helps you heal is questions, then that's what he has to deliver.

From a different angle, in case you're fearful the IC is "right": you were a good non-questioning spouse pre-DDay, pre-A's. Yet your WH betrayed you just the same. I developed what I think of as my 'scorched earth' philosophy: no longer would I hold back, because clearly it didn't work real well to "hold back" and self-censor and peacekeep all that time before!!!

Your "one friend" on FB thing resonated w/me...I had the "one friend" on mySpace scenario. Ask your questions...if your WS won't answer them, he's saved you years of heartache.

[This message edited by sad12008 at 7:29 PM, August 7th (Wednesday)]

statistics show that the more a WS asks questions the greater the chances the marriage will end in divorce.

Well then I guess I should be D right now.

I asked a million questions, a million times over and here I am 2.5yrs out in successful R.

In my case D was dependent on my WH ability to answer all of my questions honestly, patiently, and without getting defensive.

You seriously need to find a new IC that has experience with infidelity. The fact that he believes that in 2 months you should be able to put this behind you is CRAZY.

Geez, who is standing on a corner handing out these psychology degrees?

[This message edited by RidingHealingRd at 11:35 PM, August 7th (Wednesday)]

I don't agree with what the counselor said either, but I understand your situation. I am only 6 weeks out of day for a second time (same OW) and my WH is asking me to stop asking questions, to please put the past in the past. On one hand he says he will do whatever I need to feel safe again, but in same breath wonders how long I am going to keep him from getting up off the mat. I keep re-reading the 180, trying to follow that advice. I think you are incredibly strong for just being 2 months out. I hope you can get your questions answered, especially if it helps you heal. Hugs to you, and shame on counselor for saying that.

Have you considered the source of this?

When WH had his IC the counselor told him that I was at the "sh*t or get off the pot" stage in letting this stuff go. If I didn't find a way to move on soon then we probably wouldn't reconcile. 

Your husband isn't exactly the most honest man and is most likely looking for the path of least resistance to get through this ordeal and get back to business as usual. How do you know his ic even said this. From what I gather, this is just hearsay from a proven liar and cheater. Don't be so quick to crucify the ic - the fact that your H is hesitant to give you answers and then comes back to you with an outrageous "statement" from the ic raises red flags about your husband and possible rug-sweeping. It just doesn't make sense that his ic would place such an aggressive time line on your healing - if it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true.

I was "allowed" to ask questions one time. One time. Only during MC, just that one time, no question could be repeated, and only a few questions were allowed at all. I was told this would be it, I would get my answers, and then we'd move on.

Of course the answers he gave me were lies, I now have proof.

And as you can see, we're divorcing.

Oh, and the "just ask one time" rules? STBX's counselor made them. And he was a cheater. Was actively cheating on his wife at the time. With two of his patients! So yeah, any time I hear of a counselor putting such strict rules on the BS asking questions, I think "CHEATER!".

As a medical student, I'm going to vote, "NO," on your hubby's "shit or get off the pot" stance. Are you kidding me?!?! What they actually teach us in medical school is that, just like everyone's mind fires in different pathways and has different balances of neurochemical ratios, everyone needs different things from therapy. If MC/IC was a "one size fits all" kind of approach to healing, then they could generalize in one way or the other, but it's not.

I think the solution might be to stop seeing these guys with their Dr. Phil online PhDs and get to an MD who is actually qualified to deal with the human mind. No real doctor is going to make a generalization like that...it just can't be proven, plus it's just wrong. I'm telling you that what I need to heal is not going to be the same as you. I've had different experiences. Some people need to be comforted and coddled. Some of us need space, a lot of it, and immediately. Some of us want to share the marital home. Some of us don't ever want to see the WS's face again. Just like we don't all have the same preference, we also don't have the same needs when it comes to healing.

You know, though, I do agree that everything I've seen on SI over the last two years or so (I just joined recently after stbxh cheated, but I've been skulking around here since ex-fiance cheated back in 2011. I really know how to pick 'em), that those marriages with transparency seem to work better than the ones where the man won't talk. When he won't say he's sorry and give you what you need to heal, he's still putting himself first. He's still in the same mindset as he was when he had the A!! Kick his ass out the door! He's a piece of crap!! Most pieces of crap at least PRETEND to care long enough to win you back before jumping back into it!! Yours is such a dick that he can't even say he's sorry and here for you like he should have been when he was dipping his wick in dirty, public holes.

What you're seeing here is a classic case of narcissism. It's "I'm perfect and I'm God and you can take it or leave it. I have options because I'm so desirable. Other women want me and I can't make up my mind who to choose. I'm such a catch, but you're chopped liver. I wronged you, but you still have to sit here under my control while I decide if you're worth it. The therapist is on MY side and I don't have to say anything. I dont care if it makes you feel better, this is about ME!"

This "altering" of the truth to the therapist is actually a real problem with NPDs--they like to tell their own special version of things, where they look like the long-suffering hero and you were the bad guy. It's very hard for an NPD to get real treatment (many of them actually make their spouse look bad to gain support from the counselor because they need that constant approval) unless they want to change and know how to be honest with their shrink.

This is the main reason that I recommend getting an MD (same thing I did for my xWH), because I knew that an MD has the training to see through NPD (in his case, Borderline PD), and he wouldn't be falling for that "validate me!!" trick. My STBXH is not very bright, but he is charming, and he very rarely feels remorse, which can be a deadly combination. Luckily, he got a "good ol' boy" for a psychiatrist, one from the old-days of medicine who's heard every trick in the book. I recommend the same for you. He'll be able to deal with WH and solve problems without WH figuring out what's going on...he may even open up eventually.

Therapy wasn't enough for me to want to save my marriage, but I stand by the fact that it's worth paying the extra $30 an hour for that MD > PhD. It's going to make all the difference in the world. Don't trust a PhD when dealing with a PD (personality disorder). The signs your WH is exhibiting are NOT normal "I just ruined my marriage and I'll do anything to save it and stay with my kids" feelings. They're remorseless, empty inconveniences that interfered with his lifestyle and he'd really like it back now, THANKYOUVERYMUCH. Be strong!! But be prepared that PDs don't change.

If you visit the site of Peggy Vaughan ("Dear Peggy") you'll find that she did a survey on this question and actually the statistics are exactly the opposite of what your IC claims.

Couples who discussed the situation more were LESS likely to end up divorced.

I'm sorry to say that I think your IC is incompetent and that you should find a new one immediately.