SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am sure this will ramble all over the place. I am 53, married 20 years, and don’t need to spend my life this way. Educated, working professional. I have not discussed this with anyone as I don’t need others knowing my business, but I need an outlet. I am probably just avoiding the inevitable of an attorney. She is probably just avoiding the same thing, lol.

It started when she emailed me from an email address I didn’t recognize on August 16th 2013. She screwed up on her iPhone, had been emailing her lover, I asked for her to email me the insurance card, she forgot to switch emails and it came through.

I started doing my research which I am very good at.

Affair had been going on for over one year. On line from Craigslist no less, sexual, emotional, he proposed to her, she was going to leave as soon as he left his wife, but he was a liar and user, never left his wife.

The iPhone is a very revealing tool. Spotlight search. She had over 14 emails addresses over 1.5 years; sexual email discussions with a large number of men. I have no idea how many she met. Ultimately she erased her iPhone/pad history, so I can no longer access the information. I probably don’t want to know anyway.

The lies are the worst part, and yes over our 20 year marriage, she has been what I refer to as a pathological liar. From where she spends her money, etc., I have to find the receipts, question her about it, she says no, I show her the receipt, she laughs, oh yea; it never ends. We keep our money separate, we have no mutual friends, our individual friends don’t like our other spouse, etc. We have lived under the same roof for 20 years and never had anyone to our house for dinner or otherwise, and we have never gone to dinner with “friends”. We have never traveled anywhere with “friends” as we don’t have any. Individually we do, but not as a married couple. Pretty telling right there when you put it in writing. We both work outside the home. Her work friends are her friends and my work friends are my friends.

August 16: email from fake address, she lies

August 18: emails new male friend and says this new email address is safe and she needs him as an outlet;

August 26: Tells me there was never sex

August 28th: I find the hotel bill in her email account

August 28th: she says sex only happened once

Over the next 30 days, I find more and more emails, multiple days of oral sex, fondling, etc. She did things for him sexually she has never done for me and even refused to do for me. Oh well.

Multiple emails says the same thing, my husband just doesn’t do it for me anymore. No support, no emotions, no care, no love. I want an ongoing FWB relationship. She was constantly searching craigslist for married men who wanted to have affairs.

Emails to her lover on my birthday, on our anniversary, the day didn’t matter. Right in front of me most of it was going on and I had no idea. Emails to her lover talking about me, things I said, things I was doing, even telling him about our sex life, our kids, etc. It was becoming a running joke in her emails to new friends when she was seeking other lovers. Usually in the second or 3rd email, great, just what I need, people knowing about my personal life.

September 3: I confront her, she closes all email accounts that I know of, but not before she emails her new male friend (non lover)and says she has to lay low for a while now that she was caught, but she will be back. She asked him if she could come to San Francisco to screw him. He said no, LOL. She denies ever saying anything like that; if I shove her emails in her face, she will walk out the door. I am not quite ready for that yet as I need to have my legal house in order.

Oh how she raged at me for interfering with her friendship. My god if you could have seen the look on her face, heard the rage in her voice, saw the arrows coming out of her eyes. She says I don’t have a right to access her phone. Her email is hers and mine is mine. She even asked if she could continue her new online friendship as she needed the outlet and the communication. She kept saying the friendship was all she had, I have my cameras and my other hobbies (firearms, hunting, reloading etc), but she has nothing but her friendship. Oh yes, everything is compared and thrown at me. She kept saying she has nothing, her mom and best friend died 5 years ago, I have all my stuff, and she has nothing. Blame I guess, or just an excuse to keep your lover, I don’t know. About 6 weeks into this process now and I am losing interest in knowing the why, cause I know I never will, but now I want to know where it is all going and what to expect.

If I want to discuss what happened, she says she will leave. She is not willing to discuss any details.

Her closing email to her lover was that he means the world to her, but that her world was swirling and crumbling around her and just couldn’t risk continuing the friendship. She has his phone number, email address, knows where he lives; Great. Her personal calendar is loaded with notes about him, when they met, when they fought, when they talked, she loaned him money, etc., bought him golf clubs, bought him jewelry; Not a single note about me in her entire calendar, which I can live with.

But, she says we don’t need marriage counseling, everything is fine, and we are talking now. She will go if I want her to, but doesn’t believe we need it. She laughingly said, the counselor is just going to tell you that we should not be together”. She also says the other time we have been to counselors (non-marriage issues) I look like a shining night and the counselors never like her; The most I can get out of her is her saying that she was so low in life after losing her mother 4 years earlier (when the affair started in 2012). She has been seeing a counselor for the length of the affair, and is still seeing the counselor today. I have no idea what they talk about, she won’t tell me. 4 times a week for 1.5 years, I would think she would have something to tell me coming out of those sessions. But like the rest of our 20 year marriage, I will never know any facts or truth. What the emails said to her lover and potential lover after one year of counseling was that she had worked her issues out, was in a good place personally, and ready to pursue a FWB love affair. Was she lying to them online and just enjoying the thrill of imagination? I doubt it.

I never know what is true or not true. Hell of a way to live a life. I am probably going to seek out a counselor or an advisor; I need input on what I should do. Can I ever trust her, probably not, and that probably is the answer to the question right there. Emotionally I am hurt, but I am not losing sleep over it; but more importantly at 53, it is ok, now what. What do I need to be prepared for? What is coming around the corner? Counselor and an attorney for me. I know the answer as I sitting here telling myself my hobby assets are more important than my marriage and my first priority is to get them hidden and out of my possession, lol. I wonder if I can charge myself both a counseling fee and a legal fee? LOL

I think it is time to sell the houses, protect what assets I can, and move on. Your input is greatly appreciated, and I know you can’t tell a whole lot from my ramblings, but thank you for taking the time to read and respond.

Sorry you have found yourself in this position. This is the best support place for a BS that is confidential.

Have you started IC? Is your WW willing to go to MC? Read some articles in the Healing Library, they nay help you. Many BS's do the 180. It is about you and your healing proccess.

The most common advice given here is not to make any rash decisions. Take some time to figure out what you want to do. I do suggest you see an attorney so you know your options. I believe that the attorney can answer some questions you may have that no one else can.

I would also suggest IC for yourself. An IC can give you some insight into yourself and for me the IC helped me gain some control over the situation that I found myself in.

Take care of yourself. Others here will help you through this terrible time and support you anyway we can.

Hi swrugar,

Sorry you are here but it is the place to be for good support.

I know everyone says not to make rash decisions but to me from your post, the emotions seen to be gone on both sides of your marriage.

Do you even want to consider R with her if she turned it all around? My 2 highest Pet peeves that I cannot stand are sneaks & liars. If she cant be honest with you about the day to say crap, would you ever trust anything she did or said?

IMHO....you are still young enough to move on with no problems. You seem to have many hobbies & just imagine how it would be to actually have a woman who may share some of them with you.

Your wife Sounds like a SA & while I know they say it is true, it is so hard for me to buy into. I mean really....so many of us have things we love in the in the world but those of us with morales, ethics or basically just a strong mind know there are consequences

She is a cheating, unremorseful, pathological liar from your post. The habitual lying is the worst; whats the point of trying to live with someone you can never trust.

Just don't waste any more time on her; file and divorce so you can start again with someone who deserves you.

Sorry...damn phone.

Anyway we know there are consequences if we over indulge. I love chocolate but know I cant have how ever much I want or I will get fat. So I have a major issue buying into the SA shit.

To me if I were a SA, my husband would be a hurtin man. LOL But I am no Dr so dont take my opinión on the SA stuff.

But if I were you, I would throw her shit in her face & let her pack her shit to leave. Even though I bet that is a bluff.

Again IMHO, the best thing to do would be the 180 immediately, see an attorney, see her response & then decide if you really want to R. I am now 45 & my concern would be how many more years of my life to waste & how soon would she be right back at it?

Do you want to be back in the same boat at 65?

I'm sorry for your situation but it sounds like your marriage is nothing more than two people sharing a house.You have nothing in common.

Maybe it's time to move on and find someone that will appreciate you.

@toomanyregrets: you are absolutely correct, I have told her many times that all we are, are roommates cohabitating under the same roof. She doesn’t want to admit to that, but I believe she knows it is true inside. This probably has something to do with her drinking a fifth of vodka every three to four days, and usually passing out/falling asleep early most every night.

@ok now, yes, the lies have been difficult to live with over the years. It is almost like she feels she has to lie, and sometime I tend to think she believes her own lies. Be it omission, co-mission or just outright lies, it is constant, every day, and can be over the smallest thing.

@dallas2, thank you, I printed the 180 material, and boy is that great help. I keep a copy with me now, have read it several times today, and I love it. Makes me feel better and like I have a little more control.

@OMG6886, sex addict, don’t know, not from my love life with her LOL. Attention addict, yes. Needs to be the focus of someone, needs to be on the phone with them constantly, needs to be texting all day, yes, that is her. We had to go through significant psychological testing and interviews in a family law matter regarding my oldest, which was originally a step daughter (adopted shortly thereafter), when we were trying to keep her from biological father. She was abused while on visitation, therefore our actions. In this process, the clinical psychologists report said in the long term, her characteristic type(s) have relationships ending in “broken dreams and shattered lives”. Quote, based upon the testing results. Now we all know those can be flawed, so just saying.

So much has been said, and I have probably 40 or 50 of her emails that she sent to people, that it at times seems overwhelming to put it all into perspective, in order to see what occurred and where things are headed.

But when I think about what I discovered and ultimately confronted her with, her questions and statements were.

1. Have you texted him? (Why, because she didn’t want me to scare him off.)

2. Have you called him? (ditto)

3. You took away the only thing that I have; ( I love him)

4. Her dear John email to him said, all I want to do is talk to my best friend, that being her lover.

She begged me not to talk to him or email him. She begged me not to tell his wife.

Even after I confronted her, she continued to communicate with her newest friend. Unbelievable. But she was very clear to him, she had to lay low for a while as she had been discovered, but she would be back. Pretty much answers it.

I have an email from her to her best female friend from December of last year where she is discussing divorcing me, marrying the new guy, what the new guys’ wife is going to have to consider, etc. All from Craigslist, OMG, get a life woman, that’s all I can say about that part. She got so sloppy she left voice mails from her lover on her phone.

But I digress.

Thank you for your input, you helped me:

Put the 180 to work today and it is wonderful.

Have a dr. appointment to be tested for STDs, oh great

Have an appointment with a divorce attorney in two weeks;

So one full day of the 180, she walks in after work, no hello, no nothing. Completely ignores me. I say hi, how are you, etc. She is getting on the treadmill.

I didn't respond to her texts today, so she asks me who I went to lunch with and where. So I tell her.

end of discussions, end of talk, end of ......

Ok I have to say, it has been over for us for along time. Just have to face the facts. time to move forward and out it appears.

Ruger,

Sorry brother. This sucks. But if you have reached the place in your mind where your fears are overcome by your pain, then you NEED to take action.

I hope you saved proof. If you did, then expose to loverboy's wife. She deserves to know and the affair needs to come to light. See how it survives photo-oxidation :)

But before you do that, get a lawyer like you'd dial 911 if your house was burning down. Make it mission #1 to find the best game around. Get a game plan and stick to it. Start protecting assets, work up a division of asset plan, and if child custody is not an issue, get busy filing.

If you want maximum results, do it all at once. Serve her at work while you expose to loverboy's wife.

Not that this will bring back your marriage, but it sure as hell will wake up your WW roomy.

It is hard, but it will at least get you back some solid footing to move forward however you choose.

And one last thing - the 180 is for you. Focus on you and things that make you better. Quit chit chatting and asking about her day and how she is and most of all, quit expecting she gives a rat's ass about you.

Get out, go to a ballgame with buddies or shoot pool or hit the gym. Rebuild a GTO 389 V-8. Whatever. Too much to do in life (after finding a lawyer and executing your survival plan) to waste time worrying about what she is doing.

Who knows? Once you find yourself, maybe you will realize you deserve a lo9t better than the soulless shell with whom you've been co-habitating

but now I want to know where it is all going and what to expect.

Where this is going is = you're going to have a great life free from this toxic person.

No empathy.

Rage.

Hypersexuality.

Isolates you from support.

rsu7 is right on - make an exit plan, stan - protect your assets & DETACH from your abuser - your oh-so-toxic abuser.

Hammer time.

If I want to discuss what happened, she says she will leave.

Man, that would be great!

To answer your thread's title -

Where you're heading is toward a great life! Free and loving.

I know about 30,000 women who would love to have a true man like you!

[This message edited by jjct at 7:24 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

I think it is time to sell the houses, protect what assets I can, and move on.

Sounds like a solid plan. RSU and JJCT are spot on. If I was you, I'd talk the shit out of her behavior. Sorry you are here mate, but glad you found us.

swruger - I am sorry that you are here.

She has been seeing a counselor for the length of the affair, and is still seeing the counselor today. I have no idea what they talk about, she won’t tell me. 4 times a week for 1.5 years, I would think she would have something to tell me coming out of those sessions.

So one full day of the 180, she walks in after work, no hello, no nothing. Completely ignores me. I say hi, how are you, etc. She is getting on the treadmill.

While the 180 works in many cases, there are other cases where the WS actually enjoys the 180. Your wife sounds to be one of those cases if you ask me. I am not an expert on this at all, others here have far more experience but you wife may have NPD. Seeing a counselor 4 times a week and still behaving like she does sounds like the counseling is not working. Could be the counselor or could be she has been lying to the counselor the entire time.

Ultimately you are going to need to decide what you want. You talk a lot about what she would do if you did this or that. What you think she wants, etc. What do you want? I know that is a very difficult question when you are early in the process. Depending what you want your next steps may be different.

If you want to D, 180, 180, 180 - see that attorney, get things in motion and you will find your peace at the end of it all.

If you want to R, you are going to have to really confront her - it will be ugly like you suspect. She will likely rage but you need to make her see who she really is. This is 100% her fault - all of it. The affair is her fault. You describe issues in your marriage - I hate to tell you but you have no idea right now how long she has been cheating on you. When you say she has always been a pathological liar - I am concerned her cheating ways may go back much further in your M. Don't take any blame, not even for M issues, she needs to see what she really did without having any excuses for her actions.

Hi swruger,

Welcome to SI. I am so sorry for what has brought you here.

I'm sure you probably already know this, but a woman seeking sex on Craigslist is about as low as a woman can go short of becoming a street walker.

I shudder to think of the danger these women are putting themselves in by seeking sex with strangers. They set themselves up for being taken advantage of in so many different ways, it's just unimaginable to me. Not only danger to themselves, but to their families and children as well.

Craigslist peeps are extreme low life's and I imagine most on there are sex addicts. Which puts the unsuspecting BS at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to the likelihood of contracting a disease. Your wifes' OP's are most probably having sex with multiple other partners from Craigslist. Please get yourself tested, and NO unprotected sex with her AT ALL.

Based on what you have written, your wife sounds like she has a personality disorder. Possibly NPD, or Borderline PD. Reconciliation with these types of people is probably pointless.

We usually don't recommend people immediately seek D, but to wait abit, and see if R is possible. However, in your case, IMHO, I would RUN to a lawyer immediately and find out how to proceed with D.

I am so sorry.

There are good women out there. You are not to old to start over. Imagine how fulfilling your life could be with a good woman that actually loved and supported you.

Take care my friend. (And go get tested)!

PPGA

So one full day of the 180, she walks in after work, no hello, no nothing. Completely ignores me. I say hi, how are you, etc. She is getting on the treadmill.

I didn't respond to her texts today, so she asks me who I went to lunch with and where. So I tell her.

end of discussions, end of talk, end of ......

Why are you talking to her? Re read 180.

You said...

She begged me not to talk to him or email him. She begged me not to tell his wife.

Even after I confronted her, she continued to communicate with her newest friend. Unbelievable. But she was very clear to him, she had to lay low for a while as she had been discovered, but she would be back. Pretty much answers it.

I have an email from her to her best female friend from December of last year where she is discussing divorcing me, marrying the new guy, what the new guys’ wife is going to have to consider, etc. All from Craigslist, OMG, get a life woman, that’s all I can say about that part. She got so sloppy she left voice mails from her lover on her phone.

I think it is time to sell the houses, protect what assets I can, and move on.

I agree...

Emails to her lover talking about me, things I said, things I was doing, even telling him about our sex life, our kids, etc. It was becoming a running joke in her emails to new friends when she was seeking other lovers. Usually in the second or 3rd email, great, just what I need, people knowing about my personal life.

No boundaries.

Oh how she raged at me for interfering with her friendship. My god if you could have seen the look on her face, heard the rage in her voice, saw the arrows coming out of her eyes. She says I don’t have a right to access her phone. Her email is hers and mine is mine.

She has been seeing a counselor for the length of the affair, and is still seeing the counselor today. I have no idea what they talk about, she won’t tell me. 4 times a week for 1.5 years, I would think she would have something to tell me coming out of those sessions.

Secrecy.

She even asked if she could continue her new online friendship as she needed the outlet and the communication.

Irrationality in view of the circumstances.

This probably has something to do with her drinking a fifth of vodka every three to four days, and usually passing out/falling asleep early most every night.

Alcoholism.

Unfortunately, your wife is an alcoholic from what you say, she fits the pattern of irrational behavior, she may have other issues as well, but she cannot be trusted, cannot be relied on, cannot be believed as long as she consumes any alcohol at all.

This questionnaire was developed by Johns Hopkins. Anyone can take it.

http://www.lanarkleedsaa.org/pages/aboutaa/are_you_an_alcoholic.htm

You have to decide what you want to put up with from an unremorseful spouse. The picture you paint is one that would have led me to walk long ago. However, we all stay for reasons that we don't always understand. My suggestion, and you've gotten a bit of good advice here, is to get IC for yourself, and protect yourself financially and health wise till you can figure out your path.

Nothing wrong with you, it is just that you are married to an alcoholic, who also happens to have serious underlying issues as well. You may as well ignore everything that she says until she stops her alcohol use and gets serious effective long term IC. Obviously her current counseling is not effective.

Educated, working professional. I have not discussed this with anyone as I don’t need others knowing my business, but I need an outlet

Try al-anon online as well, it can be helpful, very helpful.

Get ready for the blameshifting...she will do it.

Also, you have a child involved apparently. They will need support as well. Al-anon meetings can be helpful for those who can bring themselves to attend.

Thank you everyone for your input. Great advice and thoughts.

She is trying to do some things to improve. For example, she has never done laundry in our 20 years of marriage (ok, I do 90% she has done 10%). She is now doing laundry during the week, at least for the past two weeks. She even ironed my work shirts. Keep in mind she has maybe picked up an iron a dozen times in the 20 years we have been married.

She is also cleaning the kitchen at night, almost every night. I didn't get married till I was 32, and I never went to bed unless the house was picked up and stuff in its place, not necessarily spotless, but tidy. She has known how important that is to me. She has never cleaned in our 20 years. To see her cleaning and doing dishes is pretty amazing LOL.

Will see how long it lasts and if she tries to do anything else she knows is important to me.

Re-read this, ruger:

She begged me not to talk to him or email him. She begged me not to tell his wife. Even after I confronted her, she continued to communicate with her newest friend. Unbelievable. But she was very clear to him, she had to lay low for a while as she had been discovered, but she would be back.

Gently...and in my very humble opinion:

She is doing damage control (kissing your ass) so you won't spill the beans to her AP's wife and blow their unicorn & rainbow fastasyland into the water.

She's "laying low"...

I'm sorry.

...edited for typo...

[This message edited by Lalagirl at 2:31 PM, October 4th (Friday)]

Has you WW been keeping up with her "hobby", or has she gone NC with the new "friend" ?

I know there is a ton of stuff to respond to here, but for some reason I am stuck on therapy 4x a week for 1.5 years. Dang! Who has that kind of time? Are you sure that is where she was? I would expect to be fully-freaking enlightened after all that therapy!

Get checked for STDs and let the AP's wife know, stat. Then you can see what her motivations are.

She sounds like a very troubled lady. I am sorry for your pain.

@bionicgal, good catch, 4 times a MONTH, not week, every Wednesday, my error; and yes I know she was going, I have seen the bills. She and her mom were very close, they probably talked to each other 20 times a day, saw each other before and after work. Her mom died of pancreatic cancer in 2008. My wife tells me the counseling was because she was at the lowest point in her life missing her mom, 4 years later, July, 2012. for me, I would have to hear it from a woman's perspective to know if that could a rational reason for that much counseling or not.

@toomanyregrets, as far as I know she has stopped. I have an email she sent to her best girl friend where she stated she screwed up, that this was her last fake email account, and she was deleting it after she sent the email. And she did. I actually had her login information and could watch her type it as it shows up as a draft in Yahoo mail. After she sent it, I tried emailing the account and it was closed.

The new OS system on the iphone has a private browsing function, similar to incognito on google chrome, so it doesn't record to the browser history. So I don't know if she has quit for sure or not.

thank you again everyone for your input