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Yes, me Again... sorry, but you guys are really the only people I can talk to about this.

You've all heard the only true way to heal and move on is too forgive? Can u actually forgive someone but not trust them anymore? Not want to be with them anymore?

I want to forgive him, and move on. I want to do this for me, so that I do not have to have this dark cloud and hurt in my life anymore. He is moving out Aug 1st, and so I just want to move on with my life.

Have any of you truely forgiven your WS so that you may start to heal?

I've healed and haven't forgiven. I don't think they are a required combination. Just my two cents. But I also said I'm not even going to consider the forgiveness aspects until she asks for it. And she hasn't.

I think forgiveness means different things to different people - and it feels different too.

I say don't worry about the word or feeling of forgiveness. Concentrate on getting to acceptance, then getting to "meh"- forgiveness may come along. It may not. I see no reason to actually forgive someone who has not asked for it.

I may have forgiven the X- but it feels more like pity, so I am not sure. But he never asked to be forgiven so... meh!

I guess I don't mean forgiveness for him. He's never asked, maybe once in the beginning, but I mean more like, can you look at them and not feel hurt anymore?

Can u look past the whole event and feel meh? Or just not feel hurt?

Can we co parent without hurt involved? If I can get past this, then I feel like I would feel so much lighter.

So yes, forgiveness for me, not for him. Like I wouldn't say to him " I forgive u"

Just to know in my heart that what he did doesn't have an effect on me anymore, the hurt is gone and I am no longer affected.....

I haven't forgiven my XW, but we co-parent well. You got to treat it like a fucking business arrangement. You may not like them, you may not want to have a beer with them in your free time, but you share a common objective. We cover each other when need be, but beyond our daughter, I want nothing to do with her and would rather never speak to her ever again. But that isn't realistic. So, I get along with my X for my child's sake, but I still have some deep resentment for her that I may never let go of. I can get over my disgust for her since I love my daughter a lot more than being beholden to such petty ill will.

But give it some time. I find I get closer to the 'meh' point day by day.

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 9:26 PM, July 12th (Wednesday)]

Forgiveness has been a popular topic this week.

I think everyone thinks of forgiveness differently. To me, it is semantics. Often people say they will never forgive, while others say a BS can't heal properly without some level of forgiveness. I think of it as layers of forgiveness. The first is the part that helps me heal, and another layer is what WH must earn.

I just finished Janis Spring's "How Can I Forgive You..." book, and she basically offers two "healthy" choices - "Acceptance" and "Genuine Forgiveness" which are similar to my "layers".

Acceptance is the decision to move past the hurt and let it go and not define you. She actually has a list of 10 (?) steps to go through to get to acceptance. Acceptance has nothing to do with WS, you do it on your own.

On the other hand, she posits that "Genuine Forgiveness" must be earned by the betrayer / WS. You still go through the acceptance steps, but with help from the one who hurt you.

This is a short paraphrase, but you may be interested in the book if you want more "how to" details.

After 3 years of wrestling with my wife's infidelity I've come

To the conclusion that there are two people that I had to forgive. The first one was me. I've learned to forgive myself for not going scorched earth and destroying my wife and her affair partner. My preconceived reaction to what I'd do if....came to be and I didn't.... I hated myself for not....

I've come to terms with that. I have decided to love my wife because I always did. I haven't forgiven her though. I may never. But, forgiving myself has helped us move forward.

You've all heard the only true way to heal and move on is too forgive?

Yep, but I don't personally subscribe to that belief. I have healed and moved on just fine without forgiveness, and I will never forgive what he did to me. He has said he is sorry many times (read: regret), but it means nothing to me. However, I have accepted what has happened and that I will never have all the details or truly understand why. I have accepted that I chose poorly in picking a psychopath for a spouse and father of my children. Acceptance rather than forgiveness is enough for me.

Everyone is different, but reaching the promised Land of Indifference should be the goal to healing. When you reach indifference you are no longer hurt, not angry, nothing. I can look at Xhole and I feel nothing. Do what works for you to get there, but know that it does take time and there are no short cuts.

[This message edited by Phoenix1 at 2:11 AM, July 13th (Thursday)]

Some people don't deserve forgiveness. Others do.

It is a choice.

But forgiveness is different for each person. I forgive my H for his poor choices. I have accepted the situation.

But doesn't mean I will ever forget. And I am trying to get over the resentment of it all.

Slowly but surely I will get there.

But I will never ever be the same person nor will we have the same marriage. Too bad the Cheater doesn't get that.

I read a book that helped me to understand grace, mercy, and forgiveness. Jerry Sittser; A Grace Disguised. The best book I ever read to help me heal. I think forgiveness means something different for everyone. I think you can forgive and not trust. You can forgive and not want to be with them.

I probably haven't 'forgiven' either of my serial cheaters for their shitty, disrespectful behavior and probably never will.

But I didn't stay with either one of them, either. I'm to the point of indifference, is all.

I read Desmond Tutu's Book of Forgiving based on a recommendation here. I found it very powerful and helpful to people of all faiths.

You can forgive someone without choosing to restore your relationship with them. You can forgive regardless of their remorse or worthiness, but you don't have to keep them in your life.

I forgave quickly. WHY? Because I refuse to carry that ugliness with me. Reconciliation and restoration took a lot of time and work. None of us deserves this but we certainly do not deserve to be filled with anger and hatred as a life sentence. Forgiveness DOES NOT negate what happened it just frees you to be whole again.

A very complicated topic indeed. It means so many different things to different people. The origin of the word (which I prefer) is to release someone from debt. It is a decision, NOT a feeling.

I found (though I've had mad practice) that once I made the decision it became much easier for me when I would say outloud to myself, I choose to forgive so and so. When feelings of anger, bitterness, resentment, etc. would rise up (as they do for all of us) I would remind myself, Nope, I made a choice. It takes time and practice, but it works (for me anyway). Your heart will catch up to your brain and you will move on from the negative feelings.

In this instance, all complications are removed. It doesn't mean it didn't happen, that it was ok, or that you should trust the person. It just means you release amends, making up etc.

For me forgiveness is about compassion. This is about what I learned from forgiving my Dad. Some applies to my WH as well.

I have alot of practice at forgiving since I'm also a betrayed child to a serial cheating father and a sickingly co-dependant and depressed mom. (Still married:( 40+ years. She still hopes "he'll change"

I had to have compassion for Dad and his mental illness & completely hedonistic behavior. Be clear with myself and forgive my self for pining after a family I would never have and forgive myself for some bad choices that might not have been made had my situation been different.

I am confidently content in my forgiveness of my Dad but I had to not speak to him for almost 7 years. He came back around when he knew of my husbands infidelity-I have strong boundaries and am honest with myself about the limitations on our relationship. It was a crash course in boundaries for me this last year.

I am not disappointed if he doesn't follow through with plan we make. Because my expectations are low. I dont expect him yo change but am enjoying the time he has with my kids (he's getting old) The kids are primed that Grandpa is unrealiable. My oldest knows why. I'm teaching them NOT to be co-dependent the best I can.

I also don't wait around or drop anything if he shows up "on his schedule". I have my own life to live and I don't sacrifice a thing for a relationship with my father any more. It's on my terms.

Compassion & forgiveness for me can happen in my life when I am consistent with boundaries. Once the boundaries go and I engage in unhealthy co-D behavior I open the door for resentment.

For my WH that might have to mean D because unlike with my dad I will not tolerate a relationship with a spouse who doesn't make me & kids the #1 priority. I can forgive him for not doing that but only if the boundary I put in place is that he is NOT my "most intimate partner"

i.e. spouse.

Forgiveness and compassion for myself has to come first. And it takes work.

My therapist and I talked a lot about forgiveness. She wanted me to forgive and move on. I am moving on in the reconciliation process, but I don't think I can forgive. There are many reasons for my staying in this marriage, but I don't think I will ever forgive my husband. His infidelity forever changed me, and I didn't deserve the hurt. I will continue to put one foot in front of the other, but forgiveness, not in the cards.

I think people misunderstand what forgiveness is. I do believe you can't truly and fully heal without forgiveness. Forgiveness isn't staying with the WS, forgiveness isn't condoning their behavior, forgiving isn't forgetting, and forgiven is not for them. If you don't forgive you don't truly move on. You hold onto resentments. You become bitter, cynical. Forgiving isn't linear and neither is it easy. Forgiveness is for yourself, not for the other person. I see the evidence when people have R'd or D'd and are still bitter years later. I'm not saying that emotions (good and bad) won't cycle during the healing process but staying stuck isn't healthy for you.

Not forgiving a person only works to slowly poison yourself. It just isn't healthy. Have I forgiven my WH? No it's a work in progress but no matter the outcome forgiveness and rebuilding myself are part of the end goal.

Edited to add: the definition of forgiveness is different for everyone. When I see people say they haven't forgiven their WS but have moved on, in my mind they have forgiven them. I don't think forgiving means trusting the person, or even letting them know you've forgiven them. Forgiveness to me is letting go of the wrong thing done to you and not letting it affect every aspect of your life moving forward.

[This message edited by CWBS83 at 2:29 PM, July 23rd (Sunday)]

I forgave my H's infidelity within about 6 months.

I love him and had compassion....so I had grace.

But I do not trust him - not necessarily about cheating (he is unable at this point) but about anything. When you have breached trust, it takes a lot to get that back.

It's been over 10 years now. I believe that my H would lie to me about most anything, if he thought the truth would hurt me or piss me off. So.....no trust.

Sadly, for, me, I feel that if you will lie about one thing, you will lie about others also.

Lying has to do with general character, not just one area such as cheating.

And it will not change until that part of their character changes.

JMHO

ETA: One definition of forgiveness means to erase it as if it never happened. I'm not sure that is possible, in the event of something as major as infidelity. Only God can do that. (Again, JMHO)

I didn't have to forgive, but I had to accept that it happened, that I could not change it, and that I had to move on.

Worked for me.

Smokenfire, I like that definition of forgiveness. That it's a choice and not a feeling.

From my perspective, it's also semantics. I actually got the biggest help of my life when I was working through my CSA stuff. I can't remember the title of the book but it was specifically written for 'The Christian Heart.' The author said that forgiveness was not necessary for moving forward. A bunch of other stuff I can't remember anymore, but reading that made me feel like the weight of the world was lifted off my shoulders. It kinda ties into what smokenfire said about forgiveness being a choice rather than a feeling. I just know it made a huge difference in my life.

I will never forgive my ex. But I've reached the bliss of meh. The only departure from meh is his treatment of my daughter and that is only a problem once every 2-4 years when he remembers he has a kid.

I guess the important part, in my opinion, is what does forgiveness mean to you?