SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I found out just before Thanksgiving that my wife was cheating on me since September. Sounds like she was having an EA for a while before that. We have been married for 10 years, and have small kids. After I found out, we both said we wanted stay in the relationship and I immediately forgave her (I know that was dumb now).

After a few days she tells me that she still has feelings for him and has been messaging him. I convinced her to to stop messaging him and give our marriage a second try. All was good for a couple of weeks until I caught her messaging him again (I had to hack into FB messenger app to find out...it was terrible). After that incident (Dec 10) she told me she ended it with him, but began to tell me she didn't know what she wanted.

Since then went to counseling. Found out she has still been seeing him the whole time (I knew it, but didn't have any proof), and she told the counselor that she doesn't know what she wants. The counselor suggested I give her until the summer (SUMMER!) to figure things out.

The counselor also stated she shouldn't ask for NC with the AP while she figures things out.... because if we asked for no contact we would set her up for failure and then I would be disappointed.

I couldn't imagine the counseling session going any worse.

Part of me (a lot of me actually) thinks she isn't going to make a decision in any where near a timely fashion. I feel like it will probably come down to me having to end things with her. I certainly can't live like this until the summer.

I've thought about giving her an ultimatum or going to see a lawyer, but she has said that she wants to get to a place where she does want to try R with me. She's asked for some time and text me the following after the counseling:

"Yesterday was tough. I cannot tell you enough how much I appreciate you fighting for us and giving me this time. I do think with help I can do the right things. Please don't give up on me yet."

She is going to see the counselor next for IC.

At first I was doing everything wrong...begging, pleading, doing the "pick me dance". I have been doing the 180 fairly consistently for about a week now, but I'm not sure how long I can live like this.

I think she is a textbook example of a WS in the fog. She doesn't want to leave me but doesn't want to end the A. I'm not sure what will shake her out of it. I think one reason is that she has experienced no consequences. She told her sister about it, but hasn't told her that she started seeing him again after the post d-day ending. I've told one family member for support, but no one else knows.

I didn't find this site until recently. It is amazing to see how many articles predicted exactly how I would act right after finding out and how she is still currently acting. Does it help to show her these articles or does it go against the 180?

My current plan is to give her until the first week of March. I will have some time off of work then to see some lawyers.

Should I give her that much time? Should I tell her about this plan?

Should I ask for (or give) a firm deadline?

Or is it pointless given that she is not immediately wanting to work on this?

Thanks for reading this and for any suggestions/advice.

It might be good to separate yourself from her. Maybe you need to know what life is like without her, and the benefits of living free from infidelity. If they are sitting on the fence, then make it easy for them to get off the fence. Then they can do the work of trying to legitimately go through the door, if she still wants in on the marriage. It is hard. I wish I started divorce proceedings so much earlier. In fact, for my ex, it still did not make him have a full decision, and he kept vacillating, which was so hurtful to me. However, it did help ME with my process of moving on. Whatever she does, you can't control, but you can always work on yourself.

Give her all the time she wants, along with divorce papers.

The MC is an idiot. You gave her a choice and she made it. Not committing to the marriage is a choice. Accept that choice (for now) and proceed to get yourself out of infidelity.

Until you get to the point of "being willing to walk away", you will never have the option to save it.

NC means strict NC. Forever! It doesn't take months to figure things out. It takes seconds. It's not your job to wait around, waiting for her to make her mind. Make up yours. It's your decision to require an answer, one way or the other. You have a life to get on with.

[This message edited by twisted at 11:19 AM, January 22nd (Tuesday)]

Good lord.

Kick her off the fence. Give her 30 seconds to decide - him or you and complete NC or you will divorce her.

Dood - you're being WAYYYY too nice here.

find your guy bitch boots and fast.

there's a saying here that you need to be willing to lose your marriage to save it.

Let's say she gradually lets go of this guy and you guys get back to being married. You gonna respect yourself for allowing your wife to "date?"

You knock them off the fence... usually a separation or D papers do the trick. Don't wait until summer on this and fire that MC and get yourself into IC. Your WS's problems are hers to figure out.

I agree.

She decides today. You and her family, or divorce.

This is hard enough. How will you ever come to terms with this crap?

My cs to,d me he’s afraid of himself, that he might cheat again because he doesn’t understand how he cheated in the first place.

Do they even 5ink at all before speaking. We are separated and staying that way.

I’m sorry you are dealing with this. It sucks.

You're posting in the wrong forum. You are not in R. Not even close. You ought to ask the moderators to move this to Just Found Out. You'll get way better advice there.

You're doing everything wrong. I think you know that by what you've said in your posts. Giving her "time to get over it" is part of what you're doing wrong. There is a poster here, Bigger, whose consistent good advice is to communicate clearly to her something along these lines: "You can have all of the time you want to sort out your feelings for your AP. But you can't do it while married to me. I will not share my wife. So while you are sorting out, I will proceed with what I need for me to heal. Will you agree to voluntarily accept the divorce papers, or shall I hire a process server to serve you formally?"

Also, blow up her world. Tell every stake holder in your marriage what she is doing and why you are divorcing her. Force her to choose.

Keep in mind that you cannot control her choice. She may choose the AP. If that happens, you're better off knowing sooner than later.

Hi Itendslikethis, this is a WW perspective, not at all forgiving of WW in early stages, hoping it helps but skip if you don't want to hear from WW.

I recognize in your wife my own thoughts and behavior. I had a different trajectory *only* because AP was scared off and didn't want contact after D-Day. Otherwise, I would have been her. If my AP had been willing to continue contact, here's what MIGHT have worked:

(with BH as "I" and WW as "you"):

BH would say you are not the woman I thought I knew and not the woman I thought I married. I am willing to consider staying with you, in a new and different relationship, only if you do the following:

Absolutely NC. I have all passwords etc but I don't want to spend time policing so no social media. And you need to get a flip phone.

Timeline of everything with copies of texts, emails, photos, etc (note she will probably lie at first)

Post-nup saying I get full custody and all property if you contact OM again

I will contact OM to say back off, and I will tell OM's wife and/or extended family (the light of day might start to change her feelings about it)

You have one day to decide or you need to move out

If it was me, the tiny part of my brain that was still rational might have done it. And then I would have liked to have heard from BH: I want our marriage to work, I want to love you again, I want you to love me, but I'm not willing to submit to mistreatment and I'm not willing to let my children see a broken relationship if you are not serious. And spending more time in this mess is making it worse.

I'm sorry you are here and going through this. You seem like a kind husband who doesn't want your wife to hurt. But it's going to hurt, a lot. Think of it like a doctor setting a really bad broken bone - you have to snap it into place and that will be awful, and after you set the conditions for healing, there's not much else you can do. She has to do the rest.

Second butforthegrace

I was in your exact position during my H’s last Affair.

The one that resulted him being in the Affair Fog so deep he was ready to D me. We had false reconciliation for 6 months and on DDay2 (when I found out the Affair was still going on) I did this. (He has walked in the door and demanded a D for the fourth time in 5 months).

1. My H was the breadwinner and I had been saving $ for 5 months. I had enough to survive a year if he never gave me another dime. So my financial plan was in place.

2. I had an exit strategy. Kids & I were staying In Our house and he was paying for it.

3. I had an amazing therapist.

4. I had a good support network.

5. I knew kids and I would be fine. Complete confidence in what I was doing.

DDay 2 in a calm manner I said these three things

I am divorcing you. You no longer have any ability to make any decisions that concern me or kids.

I’m sorry it has come to this but I can no longer live with your infidelity. You are free to go be with the OW (or whomever you wish to be with).

I’m sorry but I no longer have anything left to give to this marriage.

And I left the room. Calm. Rational. Got my point across.

The Affair ended ( officially) a few hours before because he had “decided” to Reconcile with me. Even though a few hours before he demanded a divorce (without saying OW was involved).

But I no longer cared.

I don’t k ow how we reconciled from this. But the hard 180 and my making decisions to move forward snapped him out if his Fog. Permanently

[This message edited by The1stWife at 12:14 PM, January 22nd (Tuesday)]

Also a WW.

Your MC is an idiot. Here is the undeniable truth:

Being in contact with the other man is compounding the situation. Often, when people have affairs they are addicted to the AP. They have to go through withdrawal totally and with full commitment in order to even be able to begin to see straight. Until then, this drama of fence sitting is only going to add to the emotional drama she is living out in their relationship and turning it into a sick bonding situation.

Also, not being able to drop contact with him shows flat out no concern or respect for you. You are not going to be able to be married to someone who can't at least get to the very lowest tier of commitment and respect.

I would 100% not let this go on. I would first go to the lawyer and get your ducks in a row get a plan for yourself. This will provide at least a shaky confidence. Then, I would tell her that you are going to file for divorce unless the following things happen:

1. She gets in IC. Marriage counseling isn't going to help you right now. The problem is HER not your marriage. She needs to figure out what her deficits are and fix them. This is a long process but if she commits to it, you will see steady progress.

2. No Contact. She is to send him a NC letter that says it's over. No mushy stuff. She turns over her privacy for some time so that you have some assurance that your efforts to work through this (if that's at all what you even want) are not in vain.

3. If he has a spouse or girlfriend, expose the A immediately to this woman. If he's busy putting out his own fires it will change the entire dynamic between him and your wife.

No. Just no. Fire the MC. You can resume seeing another MC after she has had enough therapy on her own to be worth the effort.

You need to get detached. Read about the 180. Protect yourself. Focus on your needs and healing. Do not coddle her. I don't mean you have to be disrespectful, but you don't have to play the pick me dance. It's amazing some of these MC's still have jobs or a practice.

Sorry you're here. I understand how hard this is on you and in fact I'm in the same boat as you are. That's why I understand and it's also why I can't give any good advice. I do know that the people that do give you advice here have been where we are and they know what they're talking about. If you can make yourself take their advice it's going to be easier on you for sure. Good luck!!

Thanks everyone for the quick and thoughtful responses. I kind of knew that the general consensus would be to not allow for this to go on any longer. I guess we just got a great counselor.

Here's my plan:

1. Tell her tonight that she has to make a choice by Thursday. She has her IC appointment tomorrow to discuss it and then she can sleep on it.

2. If she wants out or is still undecided I call lawyers on Friday. I'll give her Saturday to tell her family first, then I need to talk with them on Sunday.

3. If she wants to stay, I will enforce NC and start from there.

And yes, this is on the wrong forum.

Hello Itendslikethis and welcome to SI. I'm sorry you've had to find us here but you've come to the right place.

First off, you've certainly been doing all the 'wrong' things and it's good that you're recognizing this. Don't be too hard on yourself, though. Most people have no fucking clue how to handle the shit storm and, like you, they get it all wrong in the beginning. I wasn't much different. I never started a thread in the Just Found Out forum. I jumped straight into the Reconciliation forum. I don't think the advice you'll get there will be any different than the advice you'll get here. However, you will, probably, get a lot more responses.

Marriage counseling at this point will probably do more harm than good. Given what you've described, the therapist you've already seen would seem to fit into that category. I would highly recommend that you don't go back.

If the OM (other man) is married (or has a girlfriend, fiancé, whatever), inform his wife immediately. Tell her everything you know, how you know it all, be honest and crystal clear and give her the opportunity to contact you.

I would highly recommend that you give your wife 24 hours to make a decision. She either goes no contact with the OM or she prepares herself for a divorce. She sounds like she's in the 'fog.' Personally, I don't thing it's the right term. "Rectal-cranial inversion" is more apt, if you ask me.

She doesn't want to leave me but doesn't want to end the A. I'm not sure what will shake her out of it.

Generally speaking, a petition for divorce is the quickest way to get a WS to remove her head from her ass. It might back-fire, but at least you'll know her intentions. Either way, don't give her any more time. Don't wait. Take charge of your life, brother. Now. Today. She either ends all contact with the OM or she prepares herself for a divorce.

For most people, the betrayal of infidelity is a profound shock to the system and a severe emotional and psychological trauma. It never ceases to amaze me how deeply and powerfully this shit strikes. As one member recently wrote, it hit him in his DNA.

It took me about 10 months just to recover and nearly four years later I'm still healing. Don't be too surprised if you experience a roller coaster of emotions and become a little unhinged. It happens to the best of us.

Keep on doing the 180. Print out the article and read every few days or so. It's what I did and it helped. Also, I'd suggest that you do some more reading in The Healing Library. There's a ton of great articles in there.

Keep on posting, brother. We'll be here for you.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 12:38 PM, January 22nd (Tuesday)]

1. Tell her tonight that she has to make a choice by Thursday. She has her IC appointment tomorrow to discuss it and then she can sleep on it.

2. If she wants out or is still undecided I call lawyers on Friday. I'll give her Saturday to tell her family first, then I need to talk with them on Sunday.

You're still making the same mistakes. You're just doing it in a slightly more compact time frame.

You don't tell her to "make a choice", and you don't ask her to do something "by Thursday". Those are weak, ineffectual actions. You cannot control her. You can only control you. Also, you have to be willing to lose the marriage. You cannot "win" a marriage by drawing lines in sand.

As an aside, by far the weakest thing you could do is tell her to "make a choice by Thursday", then on Friday when she asks for more time, give it to her.

But I digress. Tell her, now, you will not share your wife, period. Your path to sanity is to get yourself out of infidelity. There are two paths, D or R. You can control D. In fact, right now, D is your only path, because R is not even remotely possible if she is in contact with the AP. So all you can do at this point is move forward with D. It is that, or live with infidelity. It takes two to R, and the WW must want R, with 100% of every fiber in her being, or it simply won't work. She should be coming to you begging you to consider R. That will never happen if you give ultimatums.

Implement the hard 180 and start the steps to get yourself out of infidelity. Tell her that you are doing this because you will not share her. Do not give her any ultimatums nor deadlines. If she wants R, she will catch up with you and ask you for it. At that point, you can tell her what you need to see from her in order to consider giving her the gift of R.

In the meantime, for the sake of whatever deity you worship, please have this thread moved out of the Reconciliation forum. You are not even remotely in Reconciliation. You will get much better advice in the Just Found Out forum, or at the very least in the General forum.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 1:31 PM, January 22nd (Tuesday)]

Thanks everyone for the quick and thoughtful responses. I kind of knew that the general consensus would be to not allow for this to go on any longer. I guess we just got a great counselor.

Here's my plan:

1. Tell her tonight that she has to make a choice by Thursday. She has her IC appointment tomorrow to discuss it and then she can sleep on it.

2. If she wants out or is still undecided I call lawyers on Friday. I'll give her Saturday to tell her family first, then I need to talk with them on Sunday.

3. If she wants to stay, I will enforce NC and start from there.

And yes, this is on the wrong forum.

No. You are still doing it wrong.

You do all of this TODAY. Now. No waiting. You don't let her dictate the terms. She is the cheater.

Stop coddling her. That hasn't worked so far and it won't work from this point on.

My friend, the ONLY thing that got my fWW's head out of her ass was the signed and stamped divorce petition that I slapped down on the table in front of her. Up to that point she was "uncertain" also, just like your WW. That uncertainty dried up and blew away instantly when she saw I meant business. Then she spent the next year chasing me and begging me not to divorce her.

And another thing: women in general do not like or respect weak men. Up to this point you have done nothing but act weak and indecisive. How can she learn to respect you if you don't demand respect?

3. If she wants to stay, I will enforce NC and start from there.

No, SHE will enforce NC and give you full access to her phone/email/whatever she contacted him on and you will check up on her and make sure she is sticking to it.

Itendslikethis:

I agree with butforthegrace and livingwithpain. This situation calls for firmness and directness. This is your WW who made vows to you. There was no asterisk in the vows to let you know by this summer. You don’t have to be mean or nasty, but very direct. If she wants to be your W there is no “let you know later”. That train has left. You would be wise to implement the advice you’ve been given. Otherwise she will have you languishing in limbo he’ll for a long time. Strength to you.

[This message edited by fareast at 2:28 PM, January 22nd (Tuesday)]

I agree with the other posters. Are you really interested in "sharing" your spouse with someone else? If not then you might as well do this sooner rather than later as the longer you wait the worse it will be.

My list which I would send right now (granted I am a lawyer so I don't need to call one - you should probably do that first) would be:

1) I am not sharing you with anyone. If you want to continue doing that then you can find someone else who is interested as I am not. It's not what I signed up for and it's not what I will do any longer. You have broken the vows you made to me - to us - if you cannot give that your full attention than I am not interested in there being an "us" any longer. You have wasted enough of my time already. You do not to get to choose or otherwise have control over what I do - I will not "wait" for you to "figure out" what you want. You've already taken advantage of me and I will not stand for it any longer.

2) If you want to continue seeing someone else than we only need to talk about separating our things and ending our marriage, and I would rather do that sooner than later (or alternatively, you can serve with papers and not mention any time to talk about D at all - only you know who you are dealing with so do what you think is right).

3) If you want to try to work on this marriage I may be amicable to doing that at some point but for now it is up to you to prove to me that you really are committed to and want only to be with me. I am willing to talk to you about this IF you are serious - do NOT abuse me any further by being dishonest with me about this. If you want to talk be prepared to __________________ (insert what you need - the non-negotiable things).

This will NOT be fun. And, the one thing I can tell you (from reading on here and in my own life) is that no one on here has a clue how this will go - what your WS will do. I was 100% wrong about mine several times already...

What I do know is you want/need to get out of this mess right now. You have to take back control of YOUR life - and DON'T BE AFRAID to lose your WS - as really, do you want this now anyway, like it is now?!?! Because what you have now is all there is to lose at this stage...sadly, your M, the one you used to have (the one you thought you had), just like mine, is long gone.