SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello, all. I’m a pretty recent inductee into this club none of us ever wanted to be a member of. I saw the glossary of terms, and see that most everyone uses these abbreviations. Is that a must? If so, I’ll incorporate them into future posts, but for the sake of this introduction, I’ll just use the actual words for the most part.

I’ll try to give the cliff notes. As we all know, the details of our stories could cover several volumes.

I’m a betrayed husband. D-day was May 7th of this year. Our 2nd wedding anniversary was this past July. We each have children from one prior marriage. The AP was her supervisor. My wife had just started her job (with a company I’ll call ‘J’) about a month prior to when she says things escalated. She had been working with another company (let’s call it ‘N’) working a contract term within a large facility (let’s call this ‘A’) that has several outside companies performing various logistical functions. She had already met this man/POS who she eventually betrayed me with because he was in charge of a department within ‘J’ that her role with ‘N’ had her working alongside, but says she was only familiar with who he was because of that professional aspect. When Company ‘N’s contract with Company ‘A’ ended, she began seeking employment with Company ‘J’. The eventual AP was her contact that she sent her resume to, and it was within his power to hire her. At this point, I had no suspicions, and while it’s entirely possible, I don’t believe anything besides an attraction existed between them.

She had to independently test for this job, so I know she was qualified and not just hired as part of a plan for this guy to eventually strike. Even if that were the case, it would have been contingent upon her passing that independently administered exam. Well, she passed and was hired. She traveled to Chicago for a week of training. We communicated every night and everything still seemed normal. I didn’t like this aspect of it, but I was aware that sometimes there would be travel involved. I compromised and said that as long as it was kept to a minimum, I could deal with it.

She begins working at the job site, and I start noticing she talks about him A LOT at home. It’s pretty much all work-related, but she always seems to be mentioning him, and doesn’t seem to be aware of just how much. That raises a red flag with me, and I tell her that I’m concerned. That’s when I get the “professional” version of the dreaded “just a friend” defense. “It’s nothing”, she says. “He’s a great manager and everyone else thinks so, too.” Meh. I tell her to please guard herself and be aware.

I’m in accounting, and the first 5 months of the year are very busy for me--I work 6 days a week, I’m in the office from 8am-11pm M-F, and I’m always just wanting to lay low and recharge on Sundays. As tax season is drawing to a close, tensions are high, and our marriage is in serious need of some attention. The day after the last day of tax season we close the office and all take a personal day. For several days prior, she’s mentioning that she already has an opportunity to travel with the company for a week and it’ll be a good career move. I tell her that I don’t think it’s a good idea and we really need to get back on track with each other. After some back and forth, I reluctantly give in. She leaves for this week-long trip that suddenly gets extended to a 2-week trip. Uh-oh.

She comes back from this trip and we haven’t been on good terms, but she is rabid with me. My mere existence seems to infuriate her. I finally ask her, point blank, if anything inappropriate happened…deer in headlights . My stomach hits the floor and I immediately follow-up to ask if anything that could even remotely, possibly considered sexual, in ANY WAY happened…deer in headlights .

That’s the moment my world as I know it ended.

My immediate first reaction was furious anger, and I just knew I was done. You see, that’s what I always told myself whenever I thought about what I would do in that situation. I picked up the divorce packet from the courthouse and filled it all out as the petitioner. I filled out her sections, too. I told her that I’ll make it easy for her, and all she needs to do is review and come down to the courthouse with me to sign it all in front of the notary. Well, after a few days, I was pretty torn and confused, but I felt like I’d be open to working through this and EVENTUALLY reaching a point of reconciliation.

I’ll jump to the present and say that we’ve begun seeing a counselor. I’ve had a couple of solo sessions, she’s had one. We’ve had 2 couple’s sessions. Sometimes there are glimmers of hope, others, not so much. It almost seems like every time we get some forward momentum, she kinda sabotages it. I jumped headfirst into researching help and recovery for this chaos. I started doing the 7-Day Bootcamp on Affair Recovery dot com. I got a scholarship to do the betrayed spouses course (Harboring Hope) from them, and I start that this coming Monday. She’s mostly ambivalent. She hasn’t really taken any initiative in recovery, but every time I’ve said I’m giving up she seems to draw closer and say she’s not ready to say she wants to divorce yet. She says there is no contact and the AP is in another department now. She has also moved to a different department, and granted it’s a HUGE building, but they are both still in it. She has apologized and at times said the right thing, but I don’t get a very strong sense of remorse or empathy. She shuts down with most attempts at discussing the affair and says she’s overwhelmed by it all. She’s shared some answers to certain questions that I’d consider to be honest, but she’s still guarded and has been pretty reluctant to be fully transparent in her accountability. She says it’s because she doesn’t feel safe to yet, and doesn’t know for sure if we will make it. None of us should be expected to handle this trauma perfectly or calmly, and I certainly haven’t, but under the circumstances, I feel I’ve been EXTREMELY gracious.

Again, there’s obviously more details I could go into, but I’m trying to not go too far into TL;DR territory.

Yes, the guy is married. Yes, I found and contacted/commiserated with his (pregnant!) wife (she knew, but we compared and contrasted details that differed in the stories we were each given). Yes, I went in for STD testing, but we (my wife and I) did have sex before that.

In conclusion, I am working toward reconciliation and forgiveness. I’m mentally aware that it may not end up that way, but that’s what I want to be the end result. I’m mostly discouraged and depressed. My faith has helped me immensely, but I’m only human.

My questions: Am I expecting too much, too soon? I know this is the super edited version of things, but does anything stick out to those of you who have been here that I may be overlooking (good or bad)?

[This message edited by MGTRN73 at 9:53 AM, August 7th (Wednesday)]

You're not expecting too much, no.

She's doing just enough to keep you hanging on while she keeps at her AP, trying to get him to commit to her.

Serve her.

Hi and welcome MGTRN73.

Your wife is waffling, just giving you enough hope to keep you on the line....for what? Test driving a new man while keeping you on the line as backup?

My wife and I are reconciling, but I have to say, had my wife's response been like your wife's, I would have drafted divorce papers right away.

"She doesnt feel safe" is a crock. She wants to control the outcome. You move towards divorce and she comes back and gives you some hope, then the cycle continues.

A wife that has had an affair, is discovered, and waffles in terms of doing the hard work is not a candidate for reconciliation.

Your dday is so fresh. Recovery takes 2-5 years with both people actively working on each other and the relationship. Doesnt sound like she's doing much of the heavy lifting. Ask yourself why this is.

She isn't sure if you'll make it?!? She blows up the marriage, gets caught, then tells you she isn't comfortable or doesnt feel safe discussing it? I know it's hard, we all know this, but I would fill out the divorce papers and have her served, and tell her you are removing yourself from infidelity. I would bet she all of the sudden wants to work on the relationship again.

Sometimes there are glimmers of hope, others, not so much. It almost seems like every time we get some forward momentum, she kinda sabotages it. I jumped headfirst into researching help and recovery for this chaos. I started doing the 7-Day Bootcamp on Affair Recovery dot com. I got a scholarship to do the betrayed spouses course (Harboring Hope) from them, and I start that this coming Monday. She’s mostly ambivalent. She hasn’t really taken any initiative in recovery, but every time I’ve said I’m giving up she seems to draw closer and say she’s not ready to say she wants to divorce yet. She says there is no contact and the AP is in another department now. She has also moved to a different department, and granted it’s a HUGE building, but they are both still in it. She has apologized and at times said the right thing, but I don’t get a very strong sense of remorse or empathy. She shuts down with most attempts at discussing the affair and says she’s overwhelmed by it all. She’s shared some answers to certain questions that I’d consider to be honest, but she’s still guarded and has been pretty reluctant to be fully transparent in her accountability. She says it’s because she doesn’t feel safe to yet, and doesn’t know for sure if we will make it.

Cheaters who really want to save the marriage are typically a lot more keen than this. While it's not unusual for them to be less than forthcoming with details, they're usually a lot more worried about getting dumped. The ambivalence you're seeing could be about leftover feelings for the OM.. but it's also possible that the affair has gone underground. It happens sometimes.

Frankly, she didn't even make it two years without cheating. I have to wonder if she's invested in the marriage at all.

MGTRN73, what I am reading is that you've been married a little over 2 years and before you even hit that anniversary your wife cheated. Not only is she now less than enthusiastic about reconciliation but seems to want you to do the heavy lifting.

I think your first instinct was the right one; divorce and move on. She's not in this marriage for the long haul.

Maybe you should voice your concerns to your wife's employer. The OM seems to be in a position where he can use his authority for something other than the smooth running of the business.

Sending strength.

You are putting a lot of effort in but your wife isn't. You aren't in R.

If they work together the affair is probably still ongoing.

Has she cheated before? Could that be what ended her first marriage.

Only married 2 years? This shouldn't even be on her radar.

You'd be better off to dump her.

I'm sorry this happened - and happened within just two years of marriage.

Any kids?

Don't rush to R. She hasn't given you any reason to believe she's interested in her marriage ... or that she is willing to do the hard work to make herself safe going forward.

Has your wife agreed to prepare a timeline (subject to a polygraph)?

Did the OM dump her and change departments?

It sounds like she's still hoping she can get him back plus she's dealing with the pain of rejection. That's why she's giving you excuses.

Most firms do not allow their managers to have affairs with non managers (even if she is not a direct report). Why? well for one reason she could claim sexual harassment which could cost the firm a lot of money. The women does not have to be a direct report.

Save your evidence in case you decide to report them both to HR.

She may not be his first nor last affair at the firm. If he's a serial cheater then you may consider reporting him not just to punish him - but to prevent him from using his position to prey on other women.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 7:01 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)]

I’m sorry you’ve joined our club.

R is a huge undertaking and takes 2 very willing and determined participants. Gently, it doesn’t sound from what you’ve described as if your WW is anything but ambivalent about it, and likely only seems somewhat more so when it’s just that little extra needed to keep you on the hook. It sounds like a recipe for disaster.

If I were faced with these circumstances I would file and detach and prepare to move on. Who knows? Maybe after the process begins and reality sets in she’ll begin to feel differently. And maybe you’ll still be interested at that point down the road. But staying together in a tepid, false R won’t work.

MGTRN73,

All the posters here have been through infidelity. Furthermore, we’ve read dozens (sometimes hundreds of stories). The advice you are getting here could seem harsh, but we call it as we see it based on our experience.

When she says that she "doesn’t feel safe", it sounds to me that she is calculating her odds. She’s not too sure about her future with the OM, so she doesn’t want to risk it with you by telling you too much. So I agree with the others, she’s having trouble choosing between her husband and her brand new BF.

I’d be willing to bet that she’s still "in love" with the OM and you are the backup plan (and the babysitter for her kids).

So right now, it’s all about her and not about the pain she is causing you.

Not a good sign.

In the mean time you are still in infidelity.

You don’t have all the details, she still works with her BF, no NC, no timeline, transparency, not even a glimpse of remorse.

What is also worrisome is that she fell for this guy very quickly, woosh, just like that!

... and you are basically newly married, in the period of your marriage that’s considered the honeymoon period. She seems to have no boundaries. Why don’t you ask her if she has cheated on you or previous BF/husband before?

Another deer in the headlight? A whole herd perhaps?

Unless she changes, continue with the D, get out of infidelity

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 7:39 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)]

WW is keeping all her options open and is not committed to your M. those committed to the M leave very little doubt about what they want.

real R candidates have A's and then when they see they are going to lose everything because of their selfish, stupid behavior make it very clear they'll do anything to save the M. if they're not remorseful and doing everything at every turn to do their best to undo the damage, they're only faking it and it is false R.

it appears she's still hoping this other thing is going to work out. i would not take seriously what she is offering you at this time.

i am only posting the above based on the mish mash wishy washy behavior you described.

i'm really big on R when it's possible. you haven't been in this M long enough to even call it a M on a solid foundation. you really have to step back and examine this mess objectively. it might be that she's just not really into this M.

She says it’s because she doesn’t feel safe to yet, and doesn’t know for sure if we will make it.

Key point here. She is trying to do a Jedi mind trick on you.

If your WW were remorseful, she would be walking over broken glass with you on her shoulders. At the moment, she says she does not feel safe with you, because she is trying to buy time. She keeps you on the hook, until her AP tells her that she does not need to be his booty call anymore, then she will turn back to you and say, "Baby, I am so sorry for the terrible mistake I have made. Will you take me back.... *sprinkle in some crocodile tears here*?'

If you really want to have any chance of saving your M, then you have to bet big. High risk, high reward. File for D, let the process take its course, and you can attempt to R in parallel. If she proves to you that she is worthy of the second chance you gifted to her, then you can stop the D process.

Also, she should be doing all the research and legwork on how to R, but since you are the one doing all the work, all she has to do is sit back, watch you wriggle, keep you on the hook, and she will know she is in control of the situation.

You should take control. You set the pace and direction. You do not give her control of your life. If you cede control to your WW, you will find yourself compromising your self-respect, which will lead you on to a downward spiral of depression.

Don't waste time, energy, nor money on a MC now. you have no M to work on, as your WW has not made any indication she wants to stay married to you.

All this sounds counter-intuitive, but you are in a flux of emotions now, so might not see it from an objective point of view.

The temptation is to help the WS see the error of their ways. Don't waste time on that yet. No matter what you say, WS will have an infuriatingly illogical excuse to counter you.

D-day was May 7th of this year. Our 2nd wedding anniversary was this past July. We each have children from one prior marriage.

What we know so far is...

1. She didn't make it through a previous marriage

2. She didn't make it to your 2nd anniversary before cheating

3. She was skilled at manipulating herself into an A and your into giving her enough space to do so.

4. She lied about the A. Now she says that the A is over, the AP works in a different department and there is no contact. We know how much her words are worth.

5. She isn't remorseful.

Add that all together and it is clear that you have an unsafe partner who currently isn't interested in actually pursuing reconciliation with you.

She’s mostly ambivalent. She hasn’t really taken any initiative in recovery, but every time I’ve said I’m giving up she seems to draw closer and say she’s not ready to say she wants to divorce yet.

The WS needs to see that they have a huge character gap, that they are fully responsible for choosing to have an A and that they have a ton of work to do to change. Your W hasn't taken that step. Instead, she is just trying to keep you on the hook for family, house, finances, etc. while she sits on the fence.

I am working toward reconciliation and forgiveness...My faith has helped me immensely

Please don't fall into a faulty understanding of reconciliation and forgiveness as it will cause you more pain. My own misconceptions led me to combine forgive/forget/trust all into the word "forgiveness" and to believe that this is what my faith required. The reality is...

- You'll never fully forget (although time will help things fade)

- Forgiveness is primarily for you. It is choosing to not let bitterness define you. It is understanding that what was lost through infidelity can never fully be fixed, replaced or paid for and, as a result, letting the debt go. It is moving your focus from the past to the present and future. This all takes time to work through post discovery day.

- Trust is earned, not granted.

All of that being said, relationships are based on trust and reconciliation is the reestablishing of relationship. If you want to forgive (knowing that the full process will take time) and you want to offer the gift of the chance at R (reconciliation), that is all you can do. It is up to your W to earn your trust to show that she might be a candidate for reconciliation. (However, she isn't doing this and it takes 2 to reconcile)

Am I expecting too much, too soon?

No. Your expectations should be that you are treated with love and respect. In the wake of a Dday, that can often be translated into some central actions that your WS needs to agree and stick to...

No Contact (NC) - She writes a letter/email that you see ahead of time that indicates she made a huge mistake, she is fighting for her marriage and that there will be NC going forward. Then she stick with it. Given the work situation, it means that she or he needs to change jobs. As long as she could be in contact with him you will struggle to reestablish trust.

Transparency - You get access to everything (passwords, social media, email, etc.).

Honesty - She answers any questions you have as many times as you want to ask them.

Individual Counseling (IC) - She owns responsibility for what she did and puts in the effort to find her character gap and fix it.

She isn't meeting these basics -- she doesn't want to talk, she still works at the same place and she isn't pursuing counseling. She is even continuing to lie and be manipulative by blaming her lack of action on you (e.g. she doesn't "feel safe" or know if it is worth it to even try). I would even question whether she is really NC with the AP.

My $0.02 is that you aren't just being extremely gracious, but are being far too kind and she is taking advantage of it. If she won't meet the basics, you should be full steam ahead on allowing her to experience consequences for her past and continued actions. In the meantime, go focus on your own healing as well because it is the only thing that is fully within your control and the sooner you begin to heal, the better for you and for your child.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 9:02 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)]

I think you have pinpointed the problem quite well. Your goal is R. You have been doing all of the research and work toward R. This is all assbackwards. It is your WW who should be researching like crazy and trying to win back your trust. She does just enough to keep you hanging on. Always value yourself. You have seen enough since May to know she’s not remorseful. She’s ambivalent. You deserve better.

[This message edited by fareast at 9:47 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)]

It seems you are doing all the work. She cheated and now she is playing the "I don't feel safe" card. When I see the cheater play the victim, and put zero work into transparency or reconciliation, then I say file for divorce. You don't need to be dealing with this kind of thing in your life. If she wants to go around sleeping with married men, and basically doing what she wants, then she should do so as a singleton.

OP,

First off....sorry that you find yourself here....this crap sucks.

I think your initial reaction was perfect......and if you had followed through with dragging her down to the notary, you would likely be in a much better place today......whether that would be firmly set on D because she gave up, or on the path to R with a WW who truly knew how much she had messed up and was desperately working her ass off to keep her M.

That moment of doubt you had after that first week of swift action is normal......read enough of these threads and you will see that most BS struggle to pull the trigger on D immediately.

Unfortunately, this is a mistake IMO.......even if the BS wants R.

There is simply no better way to wrest the initiative of events away from the WS.....this makes the WS, the offender, take the role of primary mover/actor in any effort to save the M.

And if the WS refuses to act, that just tells the BS the important fact that they were never going to do what it takes to save the M anyway.

Your goal should be to go back to those initial steps you were on.....take control of your path back.

Either your WW will desperately begin to take the necessary steps to fix her problems and begin the process of R, or she won’t and you will have begun the process of ridding yourself of her.

Filing for D is not an instantaneous and irreversible action.....a fact too many BS ignore or forget.

Your WW needs to know more that you WILL divorce her, than that you would consider trying to reconcile if she starts fixing her issues and addressing the damage she has done to the M.

Right now you are in limbo. Limbo isclike living in hell.

You want to reconcile. She is pretending she wants to reconcile.

Been there done that. My H strung me along for six months with false reconciliation (he resumed the affair) and treating me like a yo-yo. Just when I would start to detach he would do enough to convince me he was committed to the marriage.

Stupidly I fell for it. Until DDay2. That’s when I stood up to him, calmly told him I was Divorcing him b/c I had nothing left to give to this marriage. I was done!!!

Restored my power and control over my life and my children. He had no ability to say or do anything or make any decisions for me. I did the hard 180. I stood up to him. He knew he pushed me too far and never thought I would stand up fir myself.

Best thing I ever did. We have reconciled. And he knows I am now in control. He works hard to continue to make amends and it’s been six years. He has changed. He is grateful for a second chance.

But before DDay2 he acted exactly like your wife is. He continued to tell me he wanted a Divorce BUT lie about why. He told me ILYBNILWY (I love you but not in love with you). The OW was still around and he was focused on her.

Limbo stinks. You need to do the hard 180 immediately. It will save your sanity. It may not stop the Affair BUT it will protect you.

You are working towards R when she isn't.

It seems like you rushed into R with an unremorseful person who is stretching things out trying to have the best of both worlds.

I would stop the marriage/joint counseling, file the papers, and continue with your own personal counseling while telling her and giving her a deadline to find a new job.

You don't have kids with her and you've been married only 2 years. She won't give you the truth and claims she 'doesn't feel safe'.

I would move on. Unless she is willing to be fully transparent and willing to move Heaven and earth, you are wasting your time.

She will make one more run at you after the OM dumps her and sides with his pregnant wife who should be headed to divorce too as she can own her husband financially.

Thank you all for your your responses. It's kind of what I thought I'd get, but since I do very much still love my wife, it's difficult to read. It is the stuff that runs through my mind when things are going not so well, which is all relative at this point, right?

I now acknowledge that pressing the divorce, full steam, would have probably shaken things up and shifted the balance of power towards me. I'm caught between the softer, but logical approach that says that no major, life-altering decisions should be made for at least the first 3 months, as the WS is dealing with limerance (it was an EA turned PA), and the BS is all over the place, emotionally. However, I do feel that one way or the other, the 180 tactic gets me out of limbo, and whether it's divorce or reconciliation, a tangible answer.

I'm sure this goes without saying here, but I'm so torn up over this. I know it'll hurt, but I'll be "fine", if we divorce, I just don't want to.

I love her, why didn't/doesn't she love me?

Not rushing to take a decision is a good idea when the WS is ready to do the work to Reconcile.

Spending 3 more months in infidelity is not a good idea.

Do the 180 for YOU. To help you detach and take more rational decisions. Never do the 180 to force your WS to do anything.

Yes you will be fine. I joined this site mostly to say to the BSs that, in the long run, it will be just fine. Have patience and be kind to yourself.

I love her, why didn't/doesn't she love me?

You are making the mistake of projecting your feelings onto her. I love her so she must love me too? Sorry but her actions tell you different. You cannot make some one love you.

Your logic is what a lot of BS's think upfront. I can nice her back, play the pick me dance, etc. Those tactics fail miserably and in reality just lower your status while making the other man look even more attractive. You're acting weak while OM is strong.

Some get this fast but some have to learn the hard way.

Living in limbo is miserable. While she may have put you there you are the one that will be keeping yourself in it.