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She said so in our last session. She knows I have been doing everything possible to work through this and WH is not. She says I can't physically sustain this much stress for much longer. She asked WH what the risk is in doing what I need him to do. He had no answer. Still has no answer. Still blaming me at almost 9 months post DDay. Still thinks I should be making the most effort and not him. I cannot stay in limbo much longer. Literally.

BTA, I'm worried about you! You can't, nor should you have to, sustain stress with a CH that isn't owning his shit. He's blaming you? NO. You should be making more effort than him? Why? And again, NO.

Do you see an IC? If not, I feel like you should. MC is for couples that want to be on the same page and move forward to improve their relationship. Not for couples where one party can't even answer a question at all never mind honestly. Although, I'm glad your MC sees that your struggling and is concerned.

It doesn't sound like your WH is going to help you get out of limbo any time soon. It may be time to make your own path forward!

Sending you hugs and strength!

I am worried about you too. So I'll be blunt.

At this point - fuck MC. Find and IC and work on the caring and healing of YOU. WH can choose to extract his own head from his ass or not - that's on him. YOU worry about YOU.

Your birthday is coming up soon, isn't it? Have you considered giving yourself the gift of a cheater-free life?.. filing for D and being done with this guy?

It appears he has consistently clung to his wayward rationalizations that you somehow deserved his betrayal. Because every time he points the finger at you, that's essentially what he's saying.. "you deserved it". As you know though, no one deserves that. I don't care if you were Ghengis Khan during your marriage. If that was the case, what you would have deserved is a divorce, not a psychological knife stuck in your back.

Cheating is always about the cheater. No one MAKES them decide to throw their stated values aside and engage in behavior they've vowed to reject. They choose it. It's that gap between what they say they believe and what they actually do which shows the defect in their character. You didn't cause that defect. Nothing you could ever do (or not do) can make someone reject their own value system. The fact that he still insists it's you and not him tells you that he's not willing to make the internal changes necessary to ensure his character. He has not budged on that.

It's your life and your choice. None of us has to live with your decision. But there's no indication here that your WH is willing to change or that he's ever going to develop enough empathy to understand the enormity of what he's done.

If you're not ready for D yet, I'd say 180 and start working on breaking through both your psychological and practical enmeshment. Detach and get your ducks in a row.

((hugs))

To be blunt, everything in your post screams he is not a good candidate for R. You cannot do the work alone - if he is unwilling or unable to do everything needed to help you heal - to prove he is a safe candidate to even consider R - then it is time you started working on yourself and let go of the outcome.

I was in limbo for nearly a year - but what kept me going was seeing my H putting his heart and soul in to R - owning the A - working on his issues that allowed him to justify cheating - understanding that he was the one that needed to put in the greater effort if he wanted to save the marriage.

Limbo is a horrible place to be - if there had been no effort on my H's part then D would have been the only option for me to keep my sanity.

I know it is hard - easier said than done - but for your sake you must put yourself first - you can't R alone - it will just keep you stuck in limbo. As hard as it seems - there is strength and peace of mind in making a decision. It's devastating to think your H could chose to devastate you with his cheating and then refuse to do anything to help you heal. His refusal to help you heal should be the answer you need to end the hell of being in limbo.

Wishing you strength and peace of mind - you deserve it.

Going to echo what everyone else said. You are not in R. Please please examine why you want to be in an M with a man who cannot own the harm he has wrought. Is it fear? Is it for financial reasons? Get in to IC (use the money you are wasting on MC) and work to find your reasons for staying— and whether they are valid.

I am sorry he is not doing any of the work. You cannot fix this by yourself— he is the broken one and only he can find the source of the break and fix it. Dear lady— you are worth more.

(((BTA)))

(If it is fear, check out the thread in the S/D forum on fear vs reality. Our fears are much much worse than reality 99% of the time. )

Remember this post BTA?

I am not sure on this BTA, however it sounds by your posts, that you are not detached from your WH.

It is hard to make good decisions when you are emotionally attached. Your decision making ability is flawed by your emotional attachment.

Time to take a step back and observe what your WH does without you poking and prodding him in the direction you want to go.

Let go of the outcome, and watch his actions. They tell you more than any of his words do.

I posted this to you when you were about 3 months out.

Detach and watch his actions. Stop doing anything for him. Let him see what he is throwing away if he continues his behavior.

Thank you all for your advice, concern, support and hugs. First off, I am in IC - have been for months. I am learning a lot about myself and how to make changes in my life. Reading a book IC recommended called In the Meantime by Iyanla Vanzant. I am finding it very helpful.

likeapinball, I think you would cringe if you heard things he says. I honestly thought it would just take time but I am realizing that this might be all he is willing to do. Saddens me and is heartbreaking in a new way, but it is what it is. He says if I was the wife I was supposed to be he never would have cheated. When we started dating he assured me he would never, ever cheat. Guess it all depends upon the circumstances where he's concerned.

chaos, my IC is going well. Weekly visits. Did some EMDR. And working on the ducks too.

chamomile, my birthday is Tuesday. I am leaning towards D at this point. However, I have a son and do not want him forever associating the holidays with this so in the meantime I will become more educated about it and see where things stand after the holidays. I will be ready to make an informed decision at that time. He says he wanted to leave but thought this was better for everyone - so the family could stay together and I could continue with this lifestyle. I told him he didn't cheat FOR me, he cheated ON me. He only cheated for himself. He didn't do me any favors and for him to say so is insulting. From educating myself on all things infidelity, I fear he may be NPD. That comes with it's own challenges in this situation. At this point, I'm beginning to feel my practical attachment is more of a concern than the emotional.

And nana, that is exactly why we are in limbo and not R - never been in R. There are certain things I need to consider it and he is not doing them. WH feels he is trying but as far as I'm concerned it is minimal effort with no remorse, only regret. And you are so right - it is devastating realizing that not only would he do this to me, but his efforts to help me heal are close to zero.

I will check out that thread Bearly. Some of it is fear. We have been married 15 years and together 18. I am not currently employed. I cannot afford any bills on my own. This is why I need to get more info on how this works so I can plan accordingly.

I do remember that post totallydumb. WH is so wrapped up in how I wronged HIM that stepping back would just prove his point. Not that I shouldn't do it, but he will probably use it for justification of proving what an awful wife I was (he thinks I was), and therefore the rationale for why I am to blame for his cheating. So there's that. He believes he is still a catch after all this (more so than I am) and will have no problem finding someone who will be exactly what he wants them to be.

Thank you all for taking time out of your weekend to help me. I will be focusing on myself in IC and gathering information, and my son for the holidays. After that, the focus will be on moving forward - R if he happens to change and D if he doesn't. But limbo is no longer working for me.

Not that I shouldn't do it, but he will probably use it for justification of proving what an awful wife I was (he thinks I was), and therefore the rationale for why I am to blame for his cheating.

BTA, he will always think you're a terrible wife. You're the one doing the heavy lifting of R and he still thinks you're terrible. It's because he doesn't want a partner in life. He wants an underling. He wants someone to cater to him and let him do whatever he wants. Someone he doesn't have to respect and doesn't demand it from him. Luckily it doesn't have to be you any longer.

I hear you Neko. I have slowly been coming to the same conclusion. Even asked him yesterday why he doesn't want to have conversations with me (about the whole infidelity thing). He said what do you think? I spewed off a list of how he doesn't want to face what he's done, how I call him out on it, how I don't let him blame me for his poor decisions and sleazy actions, how he doesn't like how I hold up a mirror to him and he doesn't like what he sees, etc, etc. I am finding my voice and not fading into the background anymore (thank you IC). I used to stay quiet just to keep the peace but I see where that got me. Working on me and figuring it out.

At this point - fuck MC.

And to be clear, I think this is what your marriage counselor is saying to you. Get out. Take care of yourself. Move on. You are grinding yourself into dust trying to fix something that requires him to fix it.

You may be right barcher. She has made it clear to both of us that I am doing all the work and he is not. We go to MC every 2 - 2 1/2 weeks at this point. As I stated earlier, I will give it until after the holidays because I don't want my son forever associating this with what is supposed to be a happy, family time. That is only maybe 3 more MC sessions. I learn a lot about my WH in MC. He reveals more to the MC than to me. I find it useful for that reason. My IC continues weekly. Trying to find the strength to do what I need to do. I'm sure you know it's difficult to deal with all the emotions and realizations that come with this journey. Thank you for the advice.

Why are you trying so hard when he clearly doesn't care?

He should be the one working to fix what he broke and you should just be sitting back watching his actions. Of course, you should also be focusing on YOUR healing, not the marriage's healing. What will it take to see you deserve better? Your going to make yourself very very sick in due time.

BTA - maybe a silly question, but has the MC raised the "this is your choice and NOT one bit of your choice to have an A is your BW's fault"? Just seems weird to me that the MC is worried about you and recognizing he's not doing any work, at the same time he still blames you for the A.

Assuming MC has said this - what is WH's response?

Still, I do realize I deserve better which is why I am getting myself together, getting motivated and stronger to do what I need to do. If he hasn't improved by then, so be it. He says he cares or he wouldn't be here, wouldn't be going to MC. He just keeps it all inside. Sounds like excuses to me.

MC has, gmc. She has told him that he is responsible for his actions, and his reactions to my actions. He disagrees with her and gives her the same rhetoric he gives me. He refuses to believe he is responsible, he is wrong for blaming me. He claims he takes responsibility however always adds a but - "I know it was my decision to cheat BUT I wouldn't have if she had been the wife she was supposed to be" or any number of other blameshifting excuses. My MC has also reminded me that I don't need to stay stuck - I don't need to be the victim - I have choices. I was hoping D was not going to be that choice but I seem to be headed in that direction. As I said, after the holidays I reevaluate and do what I feel is right. In the meantime, ducks!

I chose your path. I stayed. I hoped. I needed time either way. Giving him the opportunity to R. When they don’t have to they won’t. He has gotten away with it for 9 months. He’s not afraid of losing you.

You may make demands. He may make false promises But actions say he doesn’t have to ,so he doesn’t.

This was Xwh. At first he was a little nervous. Then as time passed he was confident I would never leave. He was right. I called it many things ,even to myself I wasn’t leaving

It worsened. He became cruel. Even more disrespectful. he was disgusted by my weakness. It was so very toxic. And years passed. My last child graduated then Xwh became seriously ill. I stayed for that.

He found a new Ow and left.

My therapist said the same things to me. I had very strong and good reasons. It never improved because there was zero effort. Now I see how hopeless it was. I wasted years. I was in pain for years.

I did need that time. I wish I could have skipped the pain and insanity.

You cannot heal this unless both do long hard work. With remorse. It’s that clear

He should get that. He should be more concerned by now

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 11:57 PM, November 18th (Monday)]

I wonder if your MC is trying to tell you something. As an MC her patient is the marriage but it sounds like she's trying to tell you to cut and run. She says you have choices. It seems to me she's trying to tell you that there isn't a positive outcome on the horizon as things are now.

We're only a month and a couple of days from Christmas. Isn't it going to be strained anyway given the circumstances. I don't know how old your son is but children are quite intuitive and pick up things.

I suggest you use the time, as you've stated, to educate yourself about D. It takes some time to get it rolling. Where I live I had to file the intent to D with the family court. I prepared the document myself. It then had to be served on my WW. I couldn't do it according to our laws so I had to arrange serving with a process server. It takes time.

I think your MC is telling you there's nothing more she can do. Your WH isn't moving and there's no way to get him to. She's given up on the possibility of a healthy marriage and telling you so. As you said, the process has revealed to you more information about your WH so has been worth it. Now you know. Time for action.

(((BetterTimesAhead))) I’m so sorry it is gut wrenching to realize the person you loved not only destroyed the M but won’t even help you pick up the pieces of your life

I’m glad that you are in IC. It helps to have that clarity and support when we feel wobbly. I was in limbo for a long time and when I finally detached and grew strength my STBX gave up. Really he never did the work and didn’t want to. Still blames me for part of his actions.

Fear of what would happen to the kids coming from a broken M kept me planted for awhile until I finally broke from it all. What surprised me is my kids are ok and I’m keeping my distance from STBX until I move out in a few months. It’s still unclear how my fears will pan out, but I have gained a lot of strength and surprisingly peace from my decision to S/D.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 8:28 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

You are right Cancun. He should be more concerned by now. But he is still primarily concerned with himself. I just needed time to accept that it seems this is all he is willing to give. It is not enough for me. I am not going to wait around. There is a deadline although he doesn't know it. If he would at least stop blaming me it would be a huge step forward but apparently he can't even do that.

Steady, I think my MC is telling me to do what I need to do. That I don't have to be a victim. That I don't have to wait for him to step up. That I can remove myself from this at any time. As for my son, he knows to some degree what is going on. We can be civil and although it will be rough, I would like to give him what may be our last holidays together. I don't the holidays to always remind him of this.

I think, Crazy, that is one of the most difficult things to accept. That someone who was supposed to protect me from the world is the one I need protection from. Someone who was never supposed to hurt me not only did so, but refuses to clean up his mess and help me through it. Sometimes I wonder how my judgement could have been so off and I didn't see this before, but I wasn't looking for it before. I believed what he told me. Trusted him. Had faith in him. Why wouldn't I? I didn't know this is what was underneath. I didn't know what to look for, what signs were there. I'm glad you are at peace with your decision and your kids are doing well. I guess that's all we can hope for.

After 9 months good luck with waiting for him to "get it".

Nothing changes and you stay you're the one who may "get it" again.