SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi I’m back. It’s been a while since I posted on here. I’m not sure where this question should go so I’m starting here.

WH has been involved in a LTA off and on.

I know what he truly needs is a dose of reality but unfortunately I am not comfortable financially to go through with a separation so I stay in hopes that the A will just fizzle out.

We are in recovery currently. I think. My H has admitted it’s just hard for him. Things go great for a bit then he gets really down and depressed and ultimately he ends up reaching back out to her like an addict.

So this is the longest he’s gone in that “depressed” stage without messaging her. He does the right things he will show me his phone etc. he’s just moping around so I’m not even sure how to talk to him. He says he feels weird talking to me about these feelings and I get it.

I guess my question is... how long does this “withdrawal” stage last? We’re not in therapy yet. He does have an appointment with a psychiatrist for himself in a few weeks for his depression.

It took my wife 5 weeks to go no contact. To my knowledge she didn’t see him after DDay but he was still calling. When I found out he was still calling and texting I told her it was NC or I was packing my bags. I think it took her a while after that to fully pull out of the so called fog.

I will gently say that you’re not in recovery until he goes

NC. I would set clear boundaries and brush up on the 180.

Best,

Thank you for your perspective. It does seem like he is trying. Yes I am not going to play games anymore if it starts back up again I’m out.

BN11,

The tone of your post is interesting. You don't seem too anguished about your husband's behavior.

If you had the money would you do a separation or get divorced ?

He’s depressed & moping around b/c his affair ended?

He’s deep in the affair fog.

If he has gone down this road more than once I doubt you are in recovery. You really are in limbo.

He’s not all in the marriage. That appears to be where he is right now.

I know it seems strange! We have talked about wanting to work on our marriage. So I guess I hold onto the hope that the psychiatrist and counseling will be the help we need to overcome this. If I had the money I would feel more comfortable separating but I would hope to not actually have to go through with it. From reading here it seems you have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it I just don’t want that to be the reality.

I’m not sure if this withdrawal thing is normal? Curious if anyone else has dealt with it. He seems sincere in wanting to end the affair.

You nearly two years ago:

"We will see if we have another conversation about his affair that he won’t admit to and I will show him what I found. Then it’s ultimatum time. As much as I want to reconcile I don’t believe he will because he’s too deep in this affair fog. If he decides to reconcile great but if he chooses her, good riddance and I will tell everyone exactly why we broke up.

Have a great day."

You are not in recovery. He is still in his now at least 2 year long A. It isn't going to fizzle.

Now for some SI buzzwords indicating the severity of your situation:

He is cake eating. You are playing the pick me dance. You are high on hopium.

You might feel it is too late for shock and awe. It is not. You have to slap him with papers. Whatever ultimatums you gave him clearly fell through.

You guys haven't event reached the starting line.

1st wife that’s a good point. I guess things I have read have said that it’s a normal part of recovery and relapse can happen. She suckered him back previously after her mom passed away. He also has been dealing with depression for years, even before the affair. He agreed to get himself help and counseling for our marriage.which was his suggestion. I know this situation itself is not normal but I was wondering if anyone out there ever have had a similar experience in their early stages of recovery. It’s also helpful and empowering to get another perspective

Thank you this is fine! Yes it seems we keep going through a lot of false R as I did actually leave a few year ago and that scared him and we ended up working on things and it was great for a while but never got professional help and I do worry it’s too late for shock and Aw but it helps to hear from you that it is not. I did the same most recently and then he suggests marriage counseling and getting help for himself. He Will give me his phone if I ask. We’ve had a lot of long talks about this and he has a male friend he confides in and has even said he’s trying to end it for good (I saw when I checked his messages a while back before our most recent discussion ). So part of me feels things are finally changing and he’s doing the right things and the other feels like I’m eating Oreos while brushing my teeth lol

Very gently - R doesn't start until that LTA is ended - final - kaput - finite - DONE.

He doesn't get to keep you and LTAP in limbo and/or use LTAP as an escape while in R.

Until she's in the rear view mirror - any counseling or recovery workshop is a waste of time and money.

As for his "phone transparency" anyone who wants to go underground will find a way [I know this - multiple DDays same LTAP and after the 1st DDay WH was oh so transparent]

LTAPs don't fizzle. They may wax and wain but they don't fizzle. Those ego kibbles are like a drug to him as much as the Hopium of things improving is to you.

I don't remember the whole story - but if there is an OBS - blow that shit up. Nothing ends their on again/off again like exposure. If there is earth to scorch - scorch it! And wear something amazing when you do.

What you do now - work on healing YOU. You focus on YOU. You talk to an attorney to see what things will look like for YOU [you don't make a decision - you get a clear picture]. YOU get STD tests (even if he says he hasn't slept with her - he's a proven cheat and liar). IMHO - tell him to do his moping and pining for LTAP out of your sight.

"Trying to end it for good"

Please - this is bullshit straight from the Cheaters Handbook. Translation - I'm going to get the best of both worlds and you aren't going to stop me and I'll pout and make your life miserable if you try. Think mopey teenager who got caught skipping school and is now grounded. Then multiply x 100+

I'm sorry - you are at less than Ground 0.

Dear BrittanyNicole11, I have to agree with some of the other comments here. Real recovery and reconciliation cannot come unless there is complete NC. Every time a relationship ends there is a grieving process and that needs to be navigated with patience and open and honest communication. You also both need time to process this long term affair. I encourage that both of you seek counseling! An objective outside person can bring so much to helping you both through the process of navigating the healing process from this LTA. Both of you need to heal and then if you both want reconciliation that takes another whole process. But, before R can begin there has to be a decision that both of you are in it together. NO outside relationships!!! Who wants the recovery most?? You or him?? It has to be both of you together for R to work or even begin!

Tell Romeo that if he wants to pine for Juliet, he can walk out the door and go to her right now.

But if he wants to stay with you, then he needs to be a husband... not just a warm body sulking around the house.

In my honest opinion, you will never get to R. He doesn’t even have enough respect for you to miss his AP on his own time.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:21 PM, February 7th (Sunday)]

My WH's withdrawal fog lasted for years. It also didn't help that he had several relapses with his xAP and then continued to tell his friends how much he missed her.

Honestly, I only put up with it as long as I did because I needed to get myself better prepared first (finances, then-baby with kidney problems and frequent hospital stays).

The general consensus seems to show a direct correlation between the length of the affair and the length of the fog. There also seems to be a correlation between how fast the WS leaves the fog and the long-term outcome of the marriage. I think if my WH had actively worked to leave the fog (instead of telling other women for years how much he was "in love" with xAP), we might have had a chance. My WH is finally over his first affair, but it took close to three years. And after he recently told me the truth about some of his behaviors during those three years, I am done.

If your WH has depression, he needs to fix himself first. It is not uncommon to turn to an addiction in attempt to deal with depression. For too many, that addiction is another person. He also needs to go 100% no contact with the xAP. However it is that he is able to reach her needs to end.

I wish things were different for you! When we are willing to keep staying and keep trying, it hurts something bad when they keep breaking our hearts with false R.

Three bits of wisdom from my time on this amazing forum.

Dr. Phil: "We teach people how to treat us." How are you teaching your WH to treat you?

In order to save our marriage, we have to be willing to lose it. Are you truly ready to move on if he can't improve?

"Ducks in a row." While you are watching to see if WH puts the time and work into counseling/reconciliation, what can you do to make sure you are 100% prepared to be on your own if needed later?

Ducks in a row or plan B or exit strategy. I hope you are working in that just in case.

I’m glad I had one on dday2. I certainly needed it.

What if I put this to you a different way?

And, keep in mind I am a WS.

What he is doing to you is emotionally abusive. There are many BS's here who have PTSD. He is creating major trauma for you.

If he was abusing you physically, punching you in the face, and continued to do it but said he was sorry and seemed remorseful, what would your reaction be? At some point apologies without change of behavior is nothing but manipulation.

I find that most often when the BS takes a stand for themselves, even when it's scary, they get better results. I am not saying it will effect your WS the way you want, so I am not recommending manipulating him. But by holding your boundaries you will gain more self respect, and get a firmer grip on your own healing. You can heal no matter what he does. Often when the WS sees they have to walk a line too it's a wake up call. Right now he has no incentive whatsoever to change.

Check out the 180 in the healing libary over on the left of your screen. I am not saying divorce or make major moves you are not ready for. I am saying start thinking about you, protecting you, what behaviors you will tolerate and what you won't. Steer your own ship in the right direction.

Hey there, BrittanyNicole11. If you haven't done so already, take some time and read through the many essays in the "Articles" section of The Healing Library. I think you'll find SerJR's "Communicating With a Foggy WS" helpful.

I understand how scary it can be to accept that your marriage might very well be beyond saving. There nothing you can do to force, encourage, or help your WH to even begin addressing the issues with which he struggles. Some people are either unwilling or unable to own and fix their shit. There's really no way around it, unfortunately. It's just life.

Which means that one way or another you're going to have to prepare yourself for life on your own. I'm not saying that divorce is the only way forward for you. Reconciliation might succeed, if he can find the courage and fortitude to see it through. And that's a big "if."

When it comes to reconciliation, I think every betrayed spouse "should" take some time and climb up on to that proverbial fence, get all comfy and cozy, and take as much time as one needs to figure out where the grass is greenest before making a permanent, life-altering decision.

Focus on you, BrittanyNicole11, your recovery and healing. Forget about your marriage and reconciliation for a while. Step-back and detach from your WH. Remember, there's no reason at all to internalize his issues nor make it your mission in life to solve them for him. Watch and observe what he does with the opportunity you've given him--this gift of a second chance.

Focus on you, your recovery and healing, because, ultimately, we are all responsible for our own happiness. Focus on what makes YOU happy. It's incredibly difficult to regain one's peace of mind, body and spirit after it's been so powerfully shattered, but it can be done.

Quite kindly, as a former Madhatter who did everything wrong on both sides of the coin, your husband is being an ass.

No contact means no contact. When my wife and I discovered each other's EAs that were happening almost simultaneously in 2017, one of the stupid things that we said was that we were going to still allow each other to be friends with our EA APs, but to pull it back and talk about normal stuff, being friends, etc. Welp, I guess we learned the very hard way, that isn't a thing, and it cannot happen. If only we'd read Shirley Glass long before 2019.

One thing about myself that I learned as I analyzed my behavior was that I was keeping the AP alive in my life, a little piece of her was still there. She had changed her number at one point, but all of our chat history from her old number was still archived in my WhatsApp (my wife didn't know that). That is where she sent me all of her racy photos and whatnot and from time to time I would revisit those times. It was pretty fucking sad and I'm ashamed of myself to admit that today, but I 100% did it. Finally, one day in late 2019, I excised that cancer. I told my wife about the whole thing and we went through my phone and erased everything from this AP. At that point, sent an official no contact, I had blocked her and ghosted her about a month prior and haven't looked back. The moment that I made my commitment to my relationship with my wife and took those irreversible actions, the AP died to me and I don't give a shit about her. It was only a few months later when I saw her for what she was, a really awful manipulative person.

So in some ways, your husband needs to shit or get off the pot. You can't make him choose you, but you sure as shit can make him choose. Right now, what he is doing is stringing her along in case things with you don't work out (I know, I've been there and done that myself). What that means is that he is at most 99.9% committed to you, but there is that 0.1% that isn't all-in, which means your marriage isn't a partnership but now a three-way relationship. It is binary when it comes to these things, there is no gray area nuance that comes in here. To be somewhat sad about losing the AP is normal, but to mope around for months is not appropriate and continued contact with them causes this cycle to begin anew each time.

Thank you to everyone who responded! I wish I could respond to each comment. I read and re read them and you all are so kind and empowering!

I realized this is just a ticking time bomb set up for disappoint again.

I have been getting ducks in a row! Trying to save mine but Covid hit us hard last year so I’m still not at the point where I’m comfortable to do something drastic. I don’t have family close by and don’t want to take my daughter 2 hours away from her friends and extra curricular.

There is an OBS and I have searched for his phone number but none of the numbers I’ve found work. I do have a message drafted to him to send on Facebook and considering sending if they continue to talk.

How can I do the 180 under the same roof? Is that possible without making it uncomfortable for my daughter? I know it doesn’t mean to be mean or cold but I am at a loss on how to execute this without removing myself and daughters from the situation.

Again I am truly thankful for your comments. It’s pathetic of him to be mopey.

I did the 180 with my children home in the house.

In front of my children I was polite. If kids were home we are together. If not, I ate meals without him.

I did as much as I could alone. Without him. He was never included unless it was required or kids were involved.

I stopped doing his laundry. And errands. And being helpful.

I only answered questions if I had to and made the responses as few words as possible.

Brittany,

It is difficult as posters here because we know how much you are hurting. We know that not only do you feel trapped, but also know that you are overly hopeful that your husband will get his head out of his ass.

But what we also want to do, while trying to be kind, is to figuratively shake you by the shoulders and say "Snap out of it!!!! Stop letting your husband call the shots!!"

Brittany, you are worth soooo much more than you are allowing yourself to be treated. You have stated that you are NOT willing to lose the marriage at this point in order to try and save it, and by doing so, you are prolonging your agony.....whichever way things turn out. I know that you are not comfortable making changes, but things are going to have to get uncomfortable to change this dynamic. I am not saying you have to move out of the house tomorrow, but right now, while your husband is trying to stop contact, your conversations with him should be NONEXISTENT. Unless it is absolutely necessary to convey something(finance, daughter), then it should be near crickets. I hope you don't sleep in the same room. The couch(really, it should be outside on the front porch) is fine for him.

It is the only way that you are going to emotionally detach from him. And if you don't want to detach, then there is not much that we can advise other than to keep doing exactly what you are doing, and pray for the best. This advice is NOT RECOMMENDED.

Talk a little more to 1stWife---she is reconciled, and still doesn't do his laundry to this day. Those are consequences for his actions....and unfortunately, something that you are NOT giving to your WH.

There is a saying around here---Keep doing what you are doing, and keep expecting what you are getting. You have the ability to make huge changes, but unfortunately, it requires getting way out of your comfort zone. You deserve so much better, so demand so much better.

You can do this.