SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

We just finished a Skype call with her (nothing else for her to do there, its pouring rain, haha). The kids all miss her, but I realized that I didn't. I took off my wedding ring this morning to see how it feels....weird. I just realized that for 10 years I've been twirling it with my thumb..oh well, that little habit will serve as a different reminder now.

I think one of the other hockey parents may have noticed this morning. I caught a bit of a funny glance, but she didn't say anything...it was right after this...

"Where's C*******?

"biking in SOuth Carolina."

"With a bunch of fast ladies?"

"No, three guys."

"I guess she has more fun biking with the guys becasue they're faster."

"Yeah, not too many women can keep up."

The last two comments are not supposed to be double-entendres..they are about cycling.

Taking the ring off is my subtle way of saying I no longer care who knows or suspects something is up...it's also how I currently feel, separated.

2 different dinner invitations for tonight...if it was a competition between who had the better support system, I'd win.

My lawyer really didn't like the plan to blow it all up while she was down there...said acts of spite don't look good in custody battles. I can still make her wonder what I'm up to at least.

What is there to Skype about? Fine for the kids, but for you I would stick to NC and the 180. Serve her with divorce papers when she gets home, or whatever your lawyer advises.

At some point you really should tell the other BSs. It's not spiteful, it's compassionate. Perhaps you should do it after she signs a settlement agreement you want, then spill it. But do tell them.

I'm really skeptical that she took a biking trip with three men and she's not sleeping with any of them. She is really, really messed up. You seem to be drinking her Koolaid that she's some sort of catch, the fastest biker or WTFever. She's a serial cheater and a selfish user who wants you around to raise the kids and give her the public face of marriage. Crap deal for you. Models terrible things to the kids.

Stop deluding yourself and see her for who she is. Glad you've got a good IRL support system. Hang in there.

I have to side with squiffle on this one.

It's not spite, rather, simply informing unwitting parties to the deceit occurring within their marriage; if you ask me, it's more noble than anything else -- to suffer some uneasiness and humility, sacrifice some of your pride, in order to help someone else make a better, informed decision about their life.

This is a reality of THEIR doing, not yours.

Ouch! Those 2 x 4s got me right where it hurts.

What is there to Skype about? Fine for the kids, but for you I would stick to NC and the 180

That is why I agreed to Skype. I admit that I often present her in the absolute worst light on here, but she's still mommy and the kids love her.

I'm really skeptical that she took a biking trip with three men and she's not sleeping with any of them

I'm not saying I have 100% confidence, but this trip was arranged months ago. She wants to stay in this group for riding purposes (oh stop it), although i am now at the point where I have told her its time to choose (because OM1 and OM2 are not on this trip, I did not have a problem with it - in fact, I like her gone right now)

You seem to be drinking her Koolaid that she's some sort of catch, the fastest biker or WTFever.

She was a catch when I caught her, and we were cyclo-tourists who went very very slow and camped...5 week honeymoon in Europe...we turned to racing after we had kids...I did used to be proud of her...that conversation was more an indication that the reason she tends to ride with guys is exactly that...she's too fast for the local women's group. For the record, before she destroyed my will to ride, I was faster than all of them, but so f_____ what?

selfish user who wants you around to raise the kids and give her the public face of marriage. Crap deal for you

I know it is, which is why I wanted her to go...I needed time apart to think clearly and really realize this without her coming up to me and being affectionate.

It's not spite, rather, simply informing unwitting parties to the deceit occurring within their marriage; if you ask me, it's more noble than anything else -- to suffer some uneasiness and humility, sacrifice some of your pride, in order to help someone else make a better, informed decision about their life.

The timing that I had planned would have been spiteful..her down there with an innocent bystander, whose wife would also be beside herself because the OW in her sister's M was down there with her H, etc...

Its definitely not my pride that is keeping me from those calls..cowardice maybe,

but I'm getting closer (phoned once, got no answer, lost nerve..).

I have to go...Earth Hour party, kid's hockey, back to Earth hour party, etc. More RL support and fun for the kids and me. I will hang in there ( think of me as a pinata as you're swinging the 2 x 4 s)

Feb,

You beat me to this reply. I think some of the above comments were a bit harsh too.

Yes, your wife has made some terrible choices and has hurt you to the core BUT she is still the mother to your children and you obviously loved her enough to marry her and those love feelings are still somewhere in there or this process wouldn't be so painful.

I hope you are coping as well as you can. It is hard to maintain the balance between your head and your heart, I think you are doing a fin job of keeping it all together.

but she's still mommy and the kids love her.

She left them alone for 10 days without telling them she was leaving. Your son cried himself to sleep.

She's showing you who she IS. Believe her.

What is the plan to expose her now?

She left them alone for 10 days without telling them she was leaving. Your son cried himself to sleep.

Squiffle,

What would you suggest? That he not allow the kids to speak to their Mother for ten days?

*******

Feb, I hope you are enjoying your party and getting a few minutes of relief from everything going on.

I'm really skeptical that she took a biking trip with three men and she's not sleeping with any of them

Bro....i do agree.

You sure that your wife isnt looking for OM#3??? Ya know....there is a reason that i didnt believe anything my FWW said - cheaters lie...

Bro...i dont know how you do it....No way would I allow my FWW take off on a 10 day trip with 3 guys after having 2 affairs....

Ya know....if ya hang out in a barber shop ....sooner or later - you'll get a haircut....

I hate to say this...but i see a train wreck.....sorry...

Have you looked at that book by shirley glass (i think) "Not just friends"....

Not trying to hammer ya here, bro.....you been hammered enough...

Bufffalo

[This message edited by bufffalo at 5:32 PM, March 26th (Saturday)]

Feb, I think you're doing great too. I can't see what you're doing that you shouldn't be doing, or what you're not doing that you should be doing. Following the advice of counsel at this time is very wise. Do not listen to anyone here who suggests that you should try to prevent your children from speaking to their mother. That will only harm your case when this whole sorry mess ends up in court.

Hang in there, you're doing great.

For the record -- I'm ALL for the kids skyping with mom. I said that Feb should be NC and 180. Not deprive the kids. But HE shouldn't make polite chit chat while she's out having a vacation/tryst so soon after DDay 1 and 2.

I am going to have to re-read page 6 a few times... a lot of good input...

I am deeply thankful for those of you who keep coming back to my threads despite my apparent glacial progress.

I am leaning strongly towards separation at this point, but just thinking of it makes me start to cry for my kids. If you could see how my 9 year old wailed because his mommy (he still calls her that, our 6 year old calls her mom) was leaving for 10 days and imagine what it would be like if she was moving out...?

When she gets back, I am going to sit her down with several spreadsheets...both of us separated but in the house (max a couple of months), separated with her leaving, separated with me leaving, selling the house, etc.

Everyone of these scenarios require her to go back to work (she is currently on a half time leave)

I will also discuss what we should try to agree to in the separation agreement wrt child custody and support.

I think I mentioned this earlier, but I talked to FIL yesterday (he called), and he said in the strongest words possible.."Don't you leave that house."...I think he thinks his own daughter should! So do I of course.

Glaciers are slow but irresistible.

I hope the separation options you're developing factor in the value of your sanity. Without it, no-one has a chance.

Don't leave the house unless you have a signed separation agreement. Otherwise it can be legally construed as abandonment. Please talk to your lawyer about this.

Expect that when she is confronted with consequences (having to go back to work, no more babysitting from Feb for 10 day vacations, plastic surgery gets less affordable, etc.), she will suck up to you hard. More clinging. More "remorse." Suddenly she might find you sexually attractive. Hysterical bonding... and you lose your resolve and she gets to eat cake some more.

For her cake (open M, a secret live you aren't privvy to) is the goal. Not her marriage, not her children's well-being. CAKE. You're dealing with an addict. That's the lifestyle she wants and she will bargain hard or fake her way to compliance to get it.

I don't see any true change happening (assuming she is capable of it, haven't seen that yet) until consequences hit her HARD. The OMs' BSs know. She is disgraced in her bike group. People know. Her parents know. Etc.

She will try VERY hard to get you to shield her from those consequences. Don't do it.

You deserve a good, healthy, reciprocal relationship. This isn't it. It's heartbreaking how it will affect the kids, so be the best parent you can be for them. All it takes is one sane parent and you are it.

I seem to be doing this a lot these days, but once again, I'm agreeing with squiffle.

I suggest looking at Littlegirllost's post here: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=401399

It may seem cruel in some ways, and maybe even over-reactive, but there are reasons that approach works.

I think squiffle's theory is correct due to some signals/signs about your WS's reactions/response to you -- how they have changed due to some of your tacticts/pressure.

She originally wanted an open marriage and you weren't attractive to her at all. With some of your pressure, this was changed to a marriage of convenience, without the 'open' factor, but with no sexual interaction between you two.

You took a hard-line on the 'open' thing, and she caught that, so she bargained back with a modified version...albeit still quite unattractive.

What I sense, is just what squiffle refers to -- she is very likely figuring that she would still continue an A with that arrangement, she would just try to hide it better and you would not be privy to it.

In order to eliminate any of this ridiculous bargaining, is to get out of the dance; I think she needs a very heavy dose of the future reality; one where she is known as an adulterer and you and her family are just not there until she acts like what one would expect from a wife and mother.

What this does, is force her to face the impact of what she has done and ultimately choose a course of action that will keep you around, rather than relying on a story she spins to manipulate the situation.

This is the only thing that worked in my case as I received similar responses to a softer approach.

There is no guarantee that your WS will choose and act the way you hope for, but it will be more likely fruitful.

And it still requires that if the actions on her part don't match up, you will clearly resume moving on without her.

Good luck.

Don't leave the house unless you have a signed separation agreement. Otherwise it can be legally construed as abandonment. Please talk to your lawyer about this.

I have no intentions of leaving. My FIL just gave me the same advice!

I'll post more later...IRL help on the way (phone call from sister)

Sis to the rescue!

Check in when you can.

Feb,

I don't post too often on your threads, mainly because you are always getting great advice---but I do follow your threads regularly.

Squiffle is always to the point, and very accurate with her responses. They may seem like 2x4s, but only because the truth stings sometimes.

Your WW is definitely in need of tough love. She needs to be hit square in the eyes with the reality that you aren't going to take any of this shit anymore.

She is extremely selfish and manipulative at this point. No remorse. Nothing on her mind but herself.

And if she doesn't get some REAL consequences soon, she might never find her way back to reality before your M is beyond any possibility of salvaging.

You have learned so much from when you first started here. It is time to turn the screws tighter. Otherwise, like doctor49 said, your sanity is going to erode to nothing. Don't let this happen to yourself, as you are the only one caring for the family right now.

Good luck, brother.

[This message edited by jb3199 at 12:20 PM, March 27th (Sunday)]

Expect that when she is confronted with consequences (having to go back to work, no more babysitting from Feb for 10 day vacations, plastic surgery gets less affordable, etc.), she will suck up to you hard. More clinging. More "remorse." Suddenly she might find you sexually attractive. Hysterical bonding... and you lose your resolve and she gets to eat cake some more.

I know that's exactly what will happen. The problem is that her coming out of the fog would pretty much look the same. I will have to be very cautious and observant...

I don't see any true change happening (assuming she is capable of it, haven't seen that yet) until consequences hit her HARD. The OMs' BSs know. She is disgraced in her bike group. People know. Her parents know. Etc.

She will try VERY hard to get you to shield her from those consequences. Don't do it.

Her parents know and I have stopped wearing my wedding ring, waiting for the opportunity to explain why to anyone who asks. I am determined that by the end of the week I will tell the OBSs and watch it ripple through the group.

(ASIDE - My 6 year old just came in to tell me to come watch a concert on TV..it was Bryan Adams, and when I got there he started playing a song I'd never heard "I still miss you - a little bit" - WW needs to hear this one - see end of post)

I suggest looking at Littlegirllost's post here: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=401399

It may seem cruel in some ways, and maybe even over-reactive, but there are reasons that approach works.

I will look at that thread soon. Thanks.

Squiffle is always to the point, and very accurate with her responses. They may seem like 2x4s, but only because the truth stings sometimes.

Your WW is definitely in need of tough love. She needs to be hit square in the eyes with the reality that you aren't going to take any of this shit anymore.

I know. Thanks for not giving up on me everyone. My resolve is building towards more exposure, separation agreement, insistence that she go back to work, etc.

You have learned so much from when you first started here. It is time to turn the screws tighter. Otherwise, like doctor49 said, your sanity is going to erode to nothing. Don't let this happen to yourself, as you are the only one caring for the family right now.

Thanks for this too. Turning the screws tighter is constantly on my mind right now.

Bryan Adams - I Still Miss You

You said you always keep me happy

You said you always be true

You said you always keep me warm at night

I didn't know that there'll be someone else there too

But I still miss you... a little bit

Don't mind me, I'll get over it

Learn to live, live to love another day

I'll be my ownself in a week or two

Until then I'll be sad and blue

Yes I admit, I still miss you... a little bit

You said you always be my lover

You said you'll be with me till the end

You said we'll always be together

I wasn't count on you sleeping with my friend

Yeah I still miss you... a little bit

Don't mind me, I'll get over it

Learn to live, live to love another day

I'll be my ownself in a week or two

Until then I'll be sad and blue

Yes I admit, I still miss you... a little bit

[This message edited by Feb 8, 2011 at 1:15 PM, March 27th (Sunday)]

I know that's exactly what will happen. The problem is that her coming out of the fog would pretty much look the same.

No. It doesn't look the same. If she is remorseful, she will OFFER to do IC, MC, she will initiate working on the marriage, she will ACCEPT the consequences, she will express empathy, she will agree to be NC with OMs, she won't put herself in situations of temptation (rides alone with men), she will throw her energies into her kids and her marriage and not her fight against imaginary stomach fat and the attention of other men.

Remember to R you need:

Full honesty (what all has happened and who all the OM are)

Transparency (PWs, cellphones, total open book)

Remorse (not phoning it in, actual pain from her NOT FOR HERSELF, but what she is doing to you and her children)

NC (she agrees. This isn't punishment.)

She's got you on starvation rations on attention and sex, sounds like. Don't fall for her manipulations. Stand strong.

You taking off your wedding band? She doesn't care. No big consequence. Her parents know? Not huge to her, I'm sure she feels she can snow them like she's snowing you. You might tell if someone asks? She'll take that chance and place her bets on you not doing it.

Those aren't consequences.

When you tell the OMs BSs? Oh yeah, that will be a consequence that will register. That and finding a job. And you filing for separation and asking her to move out.

The craziness stops when you say it stops.

Keep thinking about those screws. And hang in there.