SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

double post.

sorry

k9

[This message edited by k94ever at 3:08 PM, January 27th (Monday)]

Adoption really looks like a good option.

I have an even better idea. File for divorce and go after full custody of your two children. I know, you'll probably lose. But let her show up in front of a judge and state what's going on.

Downside? You get 50% custody of your children and get to keep your sanity.

Upside? You get your children and your wife learns that doing something this awful to your husband has serious consequences. Believe me, when she learns that her actions might possibly cost her her two children she will start singing a very difficult tune.

All I know is that each of us have been faced with potential dealbreakers. In this case mine would have been crossed long, long ago.

I have no amazing advice to give. But there is one legal quirk. In many states all children born to a legally married wife are assumed to be the children of the wife's husband.

This is true no matter how obvious it is that he husband isn't the father.

What does this mean? It means that the OM has no rights with respect to the child. The only way that can change is if you specifically deny the child and your wife names the other man as father. You'd have to check with a lawyer to find out how this works in your state.

Why do I mention this? It may give you some leverage in what options you have once you decide what to do.

I have an even better idea. File for divorce and go after full custody of your two children. I know, you'll probably lose. But let her show up in front of a judge and state what's going on.

Downside? You get 50% custody of your children and get to keep your sanity.

Upside? You get your children and your wife learns that doing something this awful to your husband has serious consequences. Believe me, when she learns that her actions might possibly cost her her two children she will start singing a very difficult tune.

Yes, I'd totally lose. And she wouldn't have to tell the judge anything she hasn't already told me.

She knows her actions have serious consequences. She is facing a terrible Sophie's Choice because she will either lose 50% custody of our two boys OR 50% custody of the new baby. It's a dilemma of her own making, to be sure. She is pretty sure she wants to stay with me because that is the most stable option. The real question for me is she willing to make the necessary changes to enable that situation to succeed. I'm not interested in being in a completely loveless marriage, nor do I want to set myself up to play the fool. Again.

But there is one legal quirk. In many states all children born to a legally married wife are assumed to be the children of the wife's husband.

Yes, I've researched this thoroughly and that is the case in my state as well. Yet that assumption is not absolute. We are going to do a paternity test at some point either before or after birth. If the OM is the father then we will take steps to establish that to the state. She plans to name the actual father as the father on the birth certificate. That's our current thinking, anyway. You can read my earlier posts about not wanting to deny the OM access to his own child. I guess I could bury my head in the sand (I do so in many other areas of this mess, obviously) about the paternity but I don't want to lie to the state nor to the actual father. Maybe that's shame on me.

Please believe me that I don't know that there are "right" answers to any of these questions. I'm glad that you and everyone else bring them up. Truly, thank you to everyone who is trying to give me a harsh dose of reality. All I'm trying to do is stumble my way through a very confusing and emotionally laden maze of awfulness.

K9 - thanks for your poignant and diplomatic post on this important point.

IF the new baby is bi-racial the kids are going to see every single day that their mom cheated on their dad. That she didn't respect her marriage vows OR their dad.

Everybody and their brother is going to ask why their little brother/sister is different from them. What story are the kids going to tell their friends/school mates?

IF the OM stays in the picture, how are the kids going to reconcile that triad with a traditional "two parent" family relationship. How are they going to re-act when the little one does the "my Dad vs. your Dad" thing? What kind of family values are they going to learn? What are the three "adults" in this situation teaching these kids as to what a loving, respectful relationship looks like?

Adoption really looks like a good option. It will give the new baby the best chance to have a loving, healthy life.

This is a tough question we're trying to answer. We're trying to use a long lens here but it's not easy. You're right - the kids will eventually start to ask questions or be asked questions by very mature and understanding middle schoolers. At the heart of the matter is whether having those conversations would be so difficult as to negate all of the potential upsides to having another sibling. (And this is where perhaps my/our blinders are fitted too tightly.) Would the children accept the answer we'd give anyone else? That we love each other and everyone in the family and that our family isn't like every other family. Who knows? In any case, my WW has no interest in giving up the child in any way. These are good points to consider and we haven't had a serious talk about adoption. We should probably do that.

This is the part I'm really struggling with. Obviously. They are going to have questions about what marriage and commitment are either way, aren't they?

No, not in this day and age. 50% of marriages end in divorce. They aren't going to look at you all big eyed and ask why you weren’t committed to their mother. This isn’t Leave it to Beaver. Kids are so much smarter than that.

If they ask it to anyone, it will be your WW, not you. Not a person alive would question why you left her.

I don’t understand why you’re even contemplating staying. She’s not sorry she cheated on you. That alone is enough for you to run from this nightmare of a person.

Has she always been such a selfish, thoughtless bitch, or is this something new for her? She has utterly destroyed her family, on every level. She won’t wake up and see that. Saying she wants to keep this baby instead of giving it up for adoption? Great – that’s not fair to anyone involved. Good for her for sticking to her script of caring about no one but herself.

If you stay with her, there is a very strong chance that, as your kids get older, they have very little respect for you. I’m sorry, but it’s true. They absolutely will know, and they’ll wonder why you stayed when she was so awful to you. They’ll say very mean things to you when they are teens and get mad.

It would be great if we lived in a world that doesn’t put labels on people and make decisions about them based on those labels. You obviously can’t say she already had him when you met. You can’t say you adopted him. You’re just stuck. You will forever, by everyone that knows you, even a little, be the guy whose wife fucked some guy at work, got pregnant, and you’re the pathetic, desperate guy that stayed and raised the other guys kid!

Don’t do this to yourself, or your kids. Give them at least one parent that can say they do the right thing and maintain their dignity. Your wife is ruined, completely. She’s running head first into it. Don’t hold her hand and jump into the fire with her. It’s not romantic – it’s just two people burning instead of one. Get away from her. She’s not even sorry for this. Why are you even speaking to her?

I agree with painfulpast. Case in point me. I always had wished my father stuck up for himself and left sooner. Maybe if he had I would respect him more. He tried to do what was right. In the end that was wrong and cost my family the ultimate price.

Speaking from experience your kids will never question you. They will always look at WW for that one. She doesn't fully grasp that. She doesn't fully grasp that she, in a sense, has assaulted you, your kids, and your family as a whole. I can tell that by what you have written about her. She doesn't get it and she's making it worse.

Hi Strangeasfiction. First let me say, I am very sorry that you are in the situation you are in. I can only imagine how confused you are.

First, I am not sure if your wife is even sure if what she is feeling towards the OM is love. Once the dust settles, she might feel differently.

Is it possible for her to quit her job just so that the constant interaction with the OM be limited to discuss about the OC.

I understand you and your wife will have to be contact with the OM because of the OC. How do you feel about this? Can you see yourself having this guy around and being in constant dealings with him for the next 18 years?

I think the question to answer really at the end of the day is if your wife still wants to be married to you (for the right reasons) other than convenience and you being the safer option. I think if that is the only reason she has to stay in the marriage, that is not much -- and frankly insulting to you. I understand you want to save your marriage - but it has to be for the right reasons.

Again, I am sorry that you are here.

I am praying for strength and wisdom for you.

Strange - sorry you are dealing with all of this.

I guess I could bury my head in the sand (I do so in many other areas of this mess, obviously) about the paternity but I don't want to lie to the state nor to the actual father.

Why would you care about lying to the actual father? Screw him, you can tell him whatever you want. He shit all over you - you don't need to show him any respect.

I choose not to have my kids tested. My situation is probably different than yours. While my WW cheated during the time my kids were born, there is a very good chance they are still mine.

Strange your WW needs a wake up call big time still I think. Part of your problem is that early on you let your WW hang on to that you were part of the problem by being gone so often for work - you gave her an excuse. The A is 100% the WS fault but the M is 50/50 is not a good way to play it - the way to play it is the A is 100% the WS fault and once that is dealt with then we can talk about marriage issues. The biggest issue your marriage has right now is your WW cheated on you - any other issue is probably minor in comparison. Sure your WW is regreting what she has done but she likely is still thinking you are partially to blame.

I would ask your WW at what age does she think it would be a good age to tell your kids that she cheated on you. If you are going to make your M work at some point in time this will have to be addressed given your situation - why not wake your WW up by asking her how this will be handled in the future.

Has she always been such a selfish, thoughtless bitch, or is this something new for her? She has utterly destroyed her family, on every level. She won’t wake up and see that. Saying she wants to keep this baby instead of giving it up for adoption? Great – that’s not fair to anyone involved. Good for her for sticking to her script of caring about no one but herself.

I can't say that I don't need to hear this. And the rest of your post...I just didn't want to quote the entire thing for sake of brevity.

She doesn't fully grasp that. She doesn't fully grasp that she, in a sense, has assaulted you, your kids, and your family as a whole. I can tell that by what you have written about her. She doesn't get it and she's making it worse.

You're almost certainly right about this. She is sorry for hurting me and for dragging this OG into our lives. While she's focused on doing "what's best for the kids" I'm not so sure she realizes that she has already hurt them. We're going to have to talk about this.

I would ask your WW at what age does she think it would be a good age to tell your kids that she cheated on you. If you are going to make your M work at some point in time this will have to be addressed given your situation - why not wake your WW up by asking her how this will be handled in the future.

Ouch - why is the truth so painful? I'm talking about the truth I'm hearing from you right now. Yours is a great question. I have no answers right now. :(

I'm not sure I could stay in a marriage that now has three people in it. You, your WW and now the OM. If your WW does keep the OC then the OM will always be a part of your family whether you like it or not. Your WW is choosing you only because the OM can't provide a stable home and isn't ready to be a father, her words if I remember right. And whose to say that your WW wont cheat again with the OM when your not around.

These are just a few things to think about before you decide to stay in your M.

[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 7:23 PM, January 27th (Monday)]

Wow... just wow....

I can't imagine what you're going through....

Don't know if this will help or not, but just thought I'd throw it in the mix.....

Raising inter-racial kids can be very challenging.

I'm white....very white...I live in the ultimate waspy area........my x is a mix of black, white, American Indian, and German....

Neither of my kids looks anything like me, and I have been asked repeatedly if I adopted them. (I didn't!)

You'd never guess that I was anywhere in the mix if you met them, but you'd know instantly they were related to x if they stood next to him.

Both of my kids look exactly like my x, but one is much lighter skinned and looks white. She blends in, and no one ever asks me or her about her lineage. The other one is much darker, and looks like she could be middle eastern, American Indian, or all sorts of other things.

As a parent, I have had to deal with all sorts of things related to race, particularly with respect to the older one. I often have to field race related questions from the kids, their friends,etc. and have had to deal with some bizarre social situations.

I can't imagine what it would be like to have to deal with this if she wasn't my child.

You would be facing this forever, for a child who isn't even yours.

I hope you can find a solution that works for you.

PS....I also agree that you're totally deluding yourself if you think your own kids won't notice, or the OC won't wonder and begin to ask questions from a very early age...kids notice things, perhaps more than we realize, and you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of heartache for you and your own children if you go through with this.

[This message edited by whyohwhyohwhy at 7:29 PM, January 27th (Monday)]

Strange...is your spouse wanting to keep this baby in an effort to either continue her relationship with the OM, or as a form of martyrdom?

And your kids will accept your story about not all families being the same, but they will eventually find out their mom had an affair with the "other dad". It will hurt and devastate them. Since the affair was a "work-place" affair pretty much all the co-workers know about it. No matter how careful the cheaters THINK they are being careful, they never are.

"Love is blind, but the neighbors/co-workers see all."

k9

[This message edited by k94ever at 6:56 PM, January 27th (Monday)]

be asked questions by very mature and understanding middle schoolers.

I'm sorry, you are deluding yourself here. My brother and I were in elementary school when kids wanted to know why I had freckles and gapped teeth and my brother had no freckles and straight teeth. Kids will NOT wait until middle school to ask these questions.

I'm sorry, you are deluding yourself here. My brother and I were in elementary school when kids wanted to know why I had freckles and gapped teeth and my brother had no freckles and straight teeth. Kids will NOT wait until middle school to ask these questions.

Was being totally sarcastic here. But good point on the timetable.

Hello StrangeAsFiction,

I would like to weigh-in here on two things:

1. Huge respect for you

2. Thoughts on your kids

First, you. I want to say that you are an amazing man. I have great respect for your compassion and conviction to YOUR code - your principles. You are trying so hard to think this through carefully and clearly, and it's obvious you want to do what you feel is right. You're very strong. I have a lot of respect for you.

Now, your young kids. You said this:

My instinct is to be self-sacrificing. But not all sacrifices serve the greater good. Whatever I decide, it needs to be done from a position of strength rather than of weakness.

I also have two young children. My world revolves around them. I just can't begin to explain how important they are to me, how much I love them and how I would sacrifice anything for them. So, let me explain my logic behind divorcing my WW. She lied, cheated and then had no remorse. She clearly was not thinking about our children (or me) when she slept with and "fell in love" with her boss. She had no remorse. One day I will explain to my children what marriage is and what it isn't. I will talk to them about love and self respect. I will encourage them to demand respect from their spouse and to treat their spouse with respect. Here's my point. I will do this from a position of strength. I will have walked the walk. I will not need to say to them, "Don't be like me....."

I don't believe that staying with my xWW would have been for the greater good. In fact, it seems like maybe she wanted out. If I had forced a reconciliation, so to speak, by trusting her again when she didn't deserve trust, allowing her to rug sweep the whole thing, losing my self respect because I knew she wasn't remorseful and would likely continue her A or start others, what benefit would I have brought to my kids?

Simply put, staying in a marriage without healthy love between the parents is not only not helpful to children, IMO, it's detrimental.

My xWW had parents who had little love for each other. She would occasionally say to me that she wished they had gotten a D. But, no. They didn't. They stayed together. They were miserable and she had misery modeled for her. I actually think it made it easier for her to throw our marriage away.

There are no obvious solutions that are apparent to me, so I'm sorry I can't offer more. I'll say this. If your W is without extreme remorse and is telling you she's not sure that she loves you (or worse), IMO you have one path to take and that path is toward D. Staying in your M, under those circumstances (regardless of another child on the way), is not a sacrifice for the greater good, IMO. It would be living a lie. On the other hand, if you must divorce, you can know that your children, as they grow up, will see you at your best and will ultimately respect your choice. When they are older, you will have taught them something about valuing yourself and not allowing others to demean and disrespect you. They will know that they grew up in an authentic, truthful existence, versus living in the midst of some twisted lie of false love, which they may never decode.

I wish you continued strength during this horribly difficult time.

Was being totally sarcastic here. But good point on the timetable.

Oh, duh, I am so sorry, I didn't catch the sarcasm (I should have, since middle schoolers are neither mature nor understanding).

I also replied to your post in ICR, regarding the baby being biracial, and the fact that genetics can play tricks with looks.

I am so sorry that you find yourself in this position. No one deserves to be cheated on, which goes without saying, but NO ONE deserves this.

[This message edited by Want2help at 1:29 AM, January 28th (Tuesday)]