SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Has she explained why they didn't use birth control? Could she have been trying to get pregnant?

The OW in my case tried to get pregnant even at an older age. Turns out she had 7 kids with 4 men which he had no clue about. She said her tubes were tied and the old condom my fWH used broke so she assured him no worries. They had one completed session and he told her he felt guilty and broke things off. So then she started talking about how unreliable tube ties are and then later that she said she was late. My fWH suggested abortion if she was and she said that wouldn't happen. Its likely her tubes weren't tied and she was trying to get pregnant. Luckily no OC.

I told him if there had been an OC I wouldn't have reconciled unless he maintained NC with both OW and OC and just paid support. Or I would have considered adopting if OW gave up parental rights. This is what I knew I could realistically handle.

[This message edited by whattheh at 7:28 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)]

SAF--

Do not be so hasty on forgiving. Forgiving someone who truly is not remorseful (and she is not at this point) is what a leading expert on affairs calls "cheap forgiveness." It has no worth. No value.

I went down this road after my Ex's first affair (he was sorry, but he was never remorseful, and as such, was unwilling to do the hard work that was necessary). This led to affairs number 2, 3, and 4 and Lord only knows what else. If he "merited" forgiveness with empty words, what he did wasn't all that bad, then. After all, I was willing to come back to the marriage with no appreciable effort other than words on his part. Such a deal . . . for him.

It is okay to not forgive now. It does not make you a lesser person. It makes you someone who is going to bestow that heartfelt gift when it is truly earned.

I have not forgiven my ex. He has done nothing to be a better person, a reasonable ex or a good co parent. Just because I haven't forgiven him doesn't mean I am curled up on the window seat with voodoo dolls and a million cats waiting for revenge and spewing bitterness. I choose not to forgive because he has done nothing to merit that gift. I know some folks say that forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. To me, giving forgiveness to someone who not only isn't remorseful but continues to behave in hurtful ways only puts you in line for Chump of the Year. That is a "gift" I want to avoid.

I would recommend gathering information and carefully watching her behaviors. Right now, I don't see her focused on much outside herself and what she wants. Hence, no current capacity for true remorse right now. Maybe later, or maybe never. Time will tell.

Cat

you know, i'm starting to wonder if this is in fact fiction. actually, i hope it is for SAF's sake. but what a horrible thing that would be, for someone to use the people here out of curiosity or research.

strangeasfiction,

Earlier someone suggested removing her pregnancy from the scenario. I'm going to second this right now. I think it's just too much and in a way, you're borrowing trouble... I mean OM could take off and deny the kid is his, or your wife could decide she wants to leave and be with him. IMHO, you need to step back and focus on your wife's behavior. Not her words - her ACTIONS. Is she crying with mascara running down her face and snot all over her nose? Is she going to go into IC to figure out why she did this? From what you've posted, this is not the case. Trust us, this is what has to happen. You can be a wonderful, stand up guy who deals with this shit sandwich and loves the OC but it doesn't matter one iota if she's not willing to commit to being exclusively married to you and fixing herself.

And you just posted:

Today she isn't ready for the big R

I suggest you step back from your own situation and read some of the other stories on this site.  You need a mental break (I know I would!). Maybe reading what some of the Waywards are doing and have done on the wayward forum will help you see what true remorse looks like. Maybe reading in DS will show you what it doesn't look like? Definitely visit the healing library and read about what it takes to reconcile. I'll tell you that in my situation it has taken a huge amount of remorse on my husband's part, IC for him and me, MC for both of us but more so  - his own desire for him to understand why he did this and make sure this doesn't happen again. Right now you're doing this all on your own. You aren't in control of her. No matter what you want or do, she is still in control of her actions. If she doesn't understand how bad her actions are, it makes no difference what you want/say/do.

Strength and hugs to you. You're obviously a great guy.

One last thing. I find it really disturbing seeing this unborn baby being referred to as the "fucklet" by some posters. This baby is totally innocent and his/her future is fraught with uncertainty to say the least.

Thank you for this.

Hey Cissi. I only disagree with you on one point. You should not back away from this thread. It may not be the popular point of view but it's what Strange needs. He needs everything he's getting here.

And thank you for this!

Everyone has made good points here. I'd just like to add my $.02.

If she's not ready to R, why are you? Why would you stay with someone who has such little regard for you or your marriage? You deserve better!

Is this the type of marriage you want to model for your children? I think not. Would you want your son or daughter to stay in a marriage with infidelity and zero remorse? No! So why is it okay for you?

I think you seriously need to start IC and get a handle on possible codependency issues. I have been in IC for about a year, I have a young 17 month old child and just left my unremorseful WH. I was scared at first and it took me a long time to pull the trigger (feel free to look at my past posts to read all about my indecisiveness) - I didn't want to not see my daughter every day, didn't want to take such a big leap... But let me tell you, it's so worth it. I would rather be alone than in a sick relationship. I would rather be alone than model a sick marriage for my daughter. I would rather be alone than be with someone who doesn't truly love or respect me. I deserve better. You do too.

Wanted to add one more item for you to consider. I don't know you but from your first message was wondering if you have a bit of a Knight in Shining Armor” complex (KSAC). So much of what you write makes me think you are trying to Save your wife from her bad choices. Has this type of thing happened before? That she is dealing with so much right now is not right to burden her with my problems, or what she has done to the kids. She made a bad choice and I don't want to punish her by pointing out what she did to us... she knows to a degree anyway. Can't 180 her because she might need my help....

This thing about the OM being involved kills me too (KSAC=it's what she wants). I can't imagine sitting at home with my two young kids while my wife is at the hospital with the OM giving birth to their son/daughter. (KSAC - It wouldn't really be fair to tear them away from each other and the baby the first few days, weeks, month so the might move in together just for the baby...) Some of the sadest stories on here are the ones with KSAC because they sacrifice everything and the spouse never really notices because they are so used to it and expect it...and it's never enough... If KSAC sounds like you be aware of it.

You don't want to down play it in your mind too much. You were working late to make money for the family. , that's really not that bad. But it's enough for her to start a sexual A with a man she has only known 2 months, she has two very young kids at home. Are you ever going to trust her to not run out if things get a little rough again?

As much as you don't want to think about D - please talk to a lawyer so you are prepared.

you know, i'm starting to wonder if this is in fact fiction. actually, i hope it is for SAF's sake. but what a horrible thing that would be, for someone to use the people here out of curiosity or research.

I don't even know what to say to this. Should I say anything? I guess I just did.

mike7...

Your accusation is uncalled for and extremely hurtful.

If you're in doubt than stay off the thread instead of trying to create some sort of witch hunt.

I am totally with Cissi and Chicky. I obviously don't know the pain of an OC and maybe if I was in that situation I would consider the child a "fucklet" too:/. But you know, babies..beautiful, sweet, innocent babies, it just seems wrong to direct venom towards them.

Frankly, I am not sure your wife has it in her to make this work. If she did, however, I absolutely believe it is possible to raise this child with the OM. And no, the children of the marriage won't necessarily be destroyed.

There is something to be said for showing your children that when you love someone, and they make mistakes, it's possible to stick together and get to the other side. The key piece is the 3 adults conducting themselves in a manner that is respectful.

Like I said, from what I've read I don't know if your wife had that in her. But I'm pretty certain you do. You have shown your integrity simply by insisting that this child matters, regardless of the pain his or her presence has brought to your life.

I'm 100% sure I couldn't raise an OC but I know two families who have..and surprise surprise..everyone is quite well adjusted.

So you're gonna lie to innocent kids! Great! And you seem to think all parents do - no they don't!! How does a parent teach a child to be honest by lying to them?? And when kids are lied to about something important, they become unrelenting in finding the truth...

But the difference is that your WW has gassed up the crazy car to drive your future into oblivion .... Most of us don't put up with that. If you happily go along for the ride, you don't know where you'll land in 5 or 10 years. Most of us seek lives with a little more predictability.

What you have to ask yourself is “Am I here to ask everyone :

1) How to R with my WW, thus possibly save my M.

or

2) How to deal with a new baby that is a product of the WW and OM and make an acceptable family situation of it.

The answer to the first question will provide you a wealth of information on how to give YOU control of the situation.

The answer to the second question will give that control to your WW.

You cannot approach both at the same time to get the result you IDEALLY want, and at the same time. It's not going to happen.

So it boils down to one question – Do YOU want control of this situation, or do you want your WW to have control of the situation.

Before you can help anyone in a crisis, you must first make sure to help yourself. Meaning that if you are not strong enough for yourself first, then you do not have the strength to help anyone else.

Forget the concept of you and your WW approaching big decisions in a cooperative and equitable manner, like any couple in a healthy marriage should. Yours is no longer a healthy marriage, and her decision to have an A made it such. She put you in this position. Don't seek her support in answering those questions because you are NOT her priority in those answers. She had an A out of selfish reasons. Her current thinking of the situation and how to handle it is to her maximum benefit, not you and your children.

You may not be religious, but you have principals and standards. How much of this situation is making you compromise those principals and standards? This is a very important question for yourself because you will have to live with what choice you make.

"If you want to get through to me, appeal to my mind and not my raw emotion."

Ok. Why? Why are you even contemplating this? I just found out and haven't really allowed myself to feel yet so am almost hard coded in logic right now and your statement doesn't make sense at all to me. You seem dealing wholly from emotion. Otherwise you'd look logically at your situation and see the raw truth you posted pages ago.

She loves him and not you. Child or no child, I agree with the posters stunned at the names. You're focusing on the wrong thing. She's made her choice even if she feels somehow compelled to keep the family together, which in light of her actions is almost obscene translation of that concept.

I can speak to this because I am strongly feeling the love I had for my husband is gone. The fact I may be stuck in a sentence, hardly a marriage, because of circumstances certainly doesn't make that love returning a better possibility. Quite the opposite. Why would you even want this? I'm not saying she's a horrible person. My husband isn't. Not at all. His actions changed how I see him. If we can't work through this how fair is that. For either of us? Do you want someone who doesn't love you but feels stuck? I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

Do not be so hasty on forgiving. Forgiving someone who truly is not remorseful (and she is not at this point) is what a leading expert on affairs calls "cheap forgiveness." It has no worth. No value.

It is okay to not forgive now. It does not make you a lesser person. It makes you someone who is going to bestow that heartfelt gift when it is truly earned.

I am with Cat on this.

I know that forgiveness is for ourselves, but I have to ask---why the immediate forgiveness? What benefit does that really offer---to forgive an action without repentance? Is it for your own sanity?

You said to appeal to your logical side, so I will once again state that you need to prepare for the path to divorce. DON"T LET THE WORD DIVORCE TURN YOU OFF OF THIS POST. It is merely the action of protecting you and your children. I am by no means stating that you should divorce(that is your choice to make--and if it your choice, then no one here has the right to tell you if it is right or wrong). But I am adamant that preparing for divorce is a logical choice.

1. It is something that you have control of.

2. You have an unremorseful WW at this time.

3. It allows protection for you and your children.

4. It is a process that allows a little distance from the raw emotions, so you can see things in a more clear, concise viewpoint.

These are all valid, logical reasons...something that you seem to thrive on. Also, look at my last post where I suggested that OG has 100% of the child's custody. How does that resonate with you, and your possible scenarios?

I'm with Cissi on this.

Only you know what you can handle, make work, AND be happy.

If your wife comes around to full remorse and wants the marriage, jump in as a team and build a strong family unit together.

Families come in all shapes. If you are all on the same page you can make this work.

If you do decide to work it all out I believe it shows your strength, you are not a weak man for agreeing to R with your wife.

She cheated, she got knocked up by OM, she is not ready for abortion (its aganist her moral but cheating and getting knocked up by OM is OK and asking her husband to raise it is OK) She is not ready for adoption. She is not begging you for forgiveness or reconcilation,

Then why you are so eager to R with a remorseless wife?

Are you in IC? Get some professional help. It can help you in taking right decisions and also see an attorney to know your rights. It can prevent you from paying child support for another 18yrs even if your wife run away with OM after some time.

I agree that all of this talk about staying together and raising the OC is all about bailing her out of her mess. It doesn't really do anything for you or your kids.

Make your decision based on what is right for you and your kids. It may or may not be what is helpful to her and OC and OM, but that should be irrelevant now.

I see more damage being done by trying to make yourselves into some twisted family with OM on the fringe forever than adoption or divorce. What if you truly can't get past the affair because OC lives with you? Even if you don't resent OC and even if you love OC, OC will always be a reminder of the affair. OM coming to pick up OC every week or two will always be a reminder of the affair.

It's hard enough to rebuild a marriage after an affair with a truly remorseful spouse (which you also don't have) and NC and no OC.

You are setting yourself and OC and your wife up for disaster. You will have a MUCH harder time rebuilding your marriage.

You may regret deciding to raise OC.

You may eventually realize you cannot do this and divorce. IF this happens you will all be in a much worse place than if you do it now.

Your wife will (not may) find it impossible to get her mind off of the OM when he is always in her life. And if she cannot get OM out of her mind, you will never have true reconciliation.

With adoption, OC can be where s/he is truly wanted and loved without such drama. You can have true NC with OM and perhaps your wife will eventually become truly remorseful.

With divorce, you and your kids can move forward without the twisted circumstances and drama of what you are proposing.

Just really think about this - as I know you are. Do not decide what to do based upon what your wife wants.

[This message edited by sudra at 9:57 AM, January 29th (Wednesday)]

Has she explained why they didn't use birth control? Could she have been trying to get pregnant?

Sadly, they were in fact trying to get pregnant. This has been one of the hardest parts to comprehend. As she explains now, she was 100% certain she would be filing for divorce. In her (damaged) mind, this pregnancy wasn't going to change anything because she was already out the door.

General update. She was 'checked out' and headed for D the day she told me about the affair. What she didn't expect was my 180. Not THAT 180. I had no idea what that was at the time. No, my 180 came from realizing how I had lost my way, forgot what was really important, had been spending to much time away from home and hasn't been fully 'present' even when I was. Did I do that turnaround in an attempt to save the marriage? Partially. (I know, I know...this was back when I thought I could fix things.) But the real reason is that I loved my family so much and I needed to make them a priority. I needed to do that no matter what happened with the marriage. Remember, I assumed we were heading straight for D as well. I wanted to be a better father in any case. Perhaps especially if we split up, because the kids would need me to be that better father even more if that happened.

My turnaround changed everything. I now realize that I am not responsible for the affair. Yet the change in me changed something in her. Did she still have strong feeling for the OM? Yes. But she wasn't as keen to run to him, either.

Then she starts really freaking out. She knows she could be pregnant. Then she starts suspecting it. Hacked contemporaneous emails confirm that she knew she needed to forget about the OM forever if she were not pregnant. Was that because she was madly in love with me? Probably not. But she knew she was doing damage to me and her family. And she was seeing something in me that she had forgotten.

Then, she knows she's pregnant. Says she's excited about the child but concerned and scared about the situation. Still has strong feelings for the OM. Stronger than she has for me. Starts to think a little more clearly. Realizes she has no idea if she and the OM could make it work. Begins to understand that she knows him in only a limited context. Realizes he's not ready to be a parent and has no idea what that entails, especially if he's picking up two step kids as well. Eventually comes to a (preliminary) conclusion to stay with me. Stability-wise, financially and parentally she thinks this is the better choice. Notably absent in her thinking is, well...ME. Partly because she doesn't really know how I'll react once she starts showing and I start getting congratulated (hence the 'preliminary'). And partly because her perspective is so incredibly self-centered right now that she just doesn't see it.

This is where I come in. Two or three weeks ago, if she had told me she were staying with me I would have declared victory and Mission Accomplished. Today, though, I see this is as a very cautious step in the right direction. I told her that staying with me entails a permanent end to the PA. I acknowledged that she can't simply turn off her feelings for the OM like a switch but that the EA also had to end. Feelings are one thing. Flirtatious texts and 'I love you's" are another. The latter message was exchanged as recently as one week ago, before I laid this out for her. She knows she needs to get over, through or around her feelings for the OM in order to stay long term.

She feels badly for him because this isn't turning out the way he expected. This was supposed to be the baby that kicked off their wonderful life together. She feels badly contemplating that their relationship might end. I get that. But, this is their mess. Who has dreams of starting a family with a married woman? And what was my WW thinking? So my empathy extends only so far. This is their mess. I'm willing to be the custodian for a little while. She and I have a lot to address and she has a lot of soul searching to do.

So that's where we are. I'm not rushing her decision or mine. Before the child is born, though, I'm going to need to hear some things from her that I know she isn't ready to say yet. Or maybe ever. That includes a commitment to me and our relationship. Not a guarantee that everything will be ok. Simply the commitment to try that's required of any first step towards reconciliation.

That's pretty much the update. I have a lot of posts I'd like to respond to. If I don't respond it's not because I don't value your input. It's just that, strangely enough, my office doesn't pay me to post on here.

[This message edited by strangeasfiction at 10:10 AM, January 29th (Wednesday)]

With divorce, you and your kids can move forward without the twisted circumstances and drama of what you are proposing.

A divorce does not put an end to the drama for anyone. It will be a different type of drama. Whose to say which is worse.

My little brother is an OC (used just for clarity). He is my brother, period. His arrival did kill my parent's marriage but it far from ended the drama.

But through it all my brother was loved by everyone, EVEN MY MOTHER! My brother was a product of my father's affair. SInce I was older my baby brother was often with me when I was a teenager. He was embraced by my mother's side of the family just like all the other kids. Still is 20+ years later.

It is an odd situation but WE did make the best of it.

You will find your way through this.