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np5, I missed the post where your wife admitted to lying naked with the guy. How long did it take her to confess this to you? I know the ice skating incident happened in September, is this a recent discovery?

I think, in a lot of BS situations, we become very much a frog in boiling water. If you erased the past 18 months and had your very first dday today: your wife has been in contact with this man for 18 months. He admitted 18 months ago he wanted to sleep with her. She has kept in contact, involves other people in this contact, goes to see him so he can sing to her, has been naked in a hotel room with him, goes out at night dancing with other guys, etc. What would your reaction be? Probably quite different than what you're doing now. But, as is, she's dragged you through this for 18 months. You have 18 months of trickled truth, sneaking behind your back, only admitting what she's caught in and you have proof of, and her apologies and begging. You are worn down. Of course you are. So one more NC break, one more meet-up, one more "oh I just didn't realize THAT was a problem..." one more anything, you're like "eh toss it on the pile."

Posting on here isn't going to help your wife until she's ready to wake up. Not just be regretful, but actually want to wake up and lay it all out. You setting up boundaries, etc aren't going to help her. You setting up threats and ultimatums, not going to help her. This isnt her stubbornness. This is who she wants to be.

I have a cousin who is my age, we grew up together. She has alcohol issues. She's been hospitalized multiple times because her body is failing, doctors give her 6 months to live. She has 3 kids, and admitted she's never cooked a meal for them. She's had 5 DUIs, several with her children in the car. This has become so "norm" for her husband and her family that it's just another drop in the bucket another time something happens. They profess their love, go to court dates to "emotionally support" her, drive across the country to make sure she has someone to take her to AA meetings. They set up boundaries for her, they clean out her house.

They're doing a crapton of work, and when she has them doing all the work for her she's peachy-keen sober-as-can-be.

She's never had to face anything because someone is always wiling to jump in front of her and shield her. What she needs is a swift kick to her arse - her kids removed, her family cutting the apron ties and saying look, we can't save you, so we'll stop enabling your demise. Maybe she'll wake up in time to save herself.

Maybe your wife would too

OK, I'd like to address the daughter's knowledge of the affair in more detail since that is really what upsets me right now and you all as well.

My family has not ever, to my knowledge, been involved in an affair or inappropriate friendships. The same for my wife's family. Nor my sister or brother or her sister. So unless we get into cousins, I have zero experience with how families react to this stuff.

I am trying to limit the knowledge of the affair to my girls. They have found out some on their own. When they have I have told them some limited amounts so they know the basics from me. At the same time I am trying to keep Edith in a fair light that she is not a bad person and that we are working together to resolve this. I did not go into the physical aspects of it as having an EA is bad enough to deal with. I don't feel giving them gory details will help. They know she has this inappropriate friendship and Edith and I are working to end it, but it is hard for her.

Withholding information on the specific details of the affair, and calling it an affair, I don't think is what is paramount here. What is most important is that they know:

1) I am aware of the situation

2) I find it unacceptable

3) I expect her to honor her vows and improve her behavior

4) We are having conflict, yes, but we love each other and we are working toward a solution. Conflict is normal in a marriage and its important to work through it.

5) We love them all very much and though we are having a lot of issues now, we are working to get through it and grow closer.

They don't need to know which boundary was violated or that divorce is looming or that she may or may not have had sex with OM, or if I did STD testing, or if the polygraph matched her story. Not filling them in on that stuff is not lying.

I was staying at my best friends house during the last 60 days of my senior high school year. My family had moved out of state and my BF parents offered so I stayed with them. It was great. Until his dad had an affair and his mom found out about it. There was screaming and yelling all over the house. Basically, I kinda hid outside, but as they would sometimes argue over dinner, it was a bit awkward to say the least. Eventually I graduated and they divorced. What I learned? Don't have an affair. Life sucks when you do.

So that's my experience until now.

When I see YOP's story or hear from others how messed up they felt for so long, I cannot relate. I'm sorry, my mind can't go there because the rock of having my mother and father always loving each other was there. That was the one constant. Sure they got upset sometimes. Sure they yelled at each other some. But it was more of a, "you over cooked the steak!" or "don't put the plant on the wood floor!". How does a child feel when they realize their mom has probably/may have slept with their teacher? How do you tell them that life as they knew it is now over. When the constant, the rock, of loving parents in fidelity with each other is gone, what replaces it?

I don't know. How do you sit down and tell your 13 year old that? If you don't then what do you tell them? I'm at a loss.

I missed the post where your wife admitted to lying naked with the guy. How long did it take her to confess this to you? I know the ice skating incident happened in September, is this a recent discovery?

She has NOT confessed to that. She, 12 months before, had texted she was open to lying naked with him. The 8/4 incident was her going ice skating and then going back to his hotel room for a few hours. At first she said it was just lunch and hand holding and leaning together. Later she TT'd and said they did lie down together, but they did NOT have sex. She has agreed to take a lie detector test.

It is not important to me RIGHT NOW to know what they did on that mattress. It just doesn't. One day yes, I will want to know. What is important to me is that she NEVER AGAIN CONTACT HIM! I sent her an email on Thursday restating my boundaries and how important they are, and what does she do? She gets pissed and picks up the phone and Skypes OM. Kind of a "fuck you NP5, I'm the boss of me." And then my DD#3 walks in.

How does a child feel when they realize their mom has probably/may have slept with their teacher?

I cannot relate.

This is why you need to get them into IC.

How old are your kids?

I wonder why you don't care to find out the entire truth about this affair? One day? One day is here..now. You deserve to know exactly how far this affair went..because demanding the truth is holding your WW ac countable for her actions..something she..and you..desperately need to do.

[This message edited by confused615 at 10:31 AM, February 24th (Tuesday)]

They are 15, 13, 10, 6 and our son, 4. None have dated yet, but the eldest did go to homecoming.

I don't know. How do you sit down and tell your 13 year old that? If you don't then what do you tell them? I'm at a loss.

I don't have the answer to that either, which is why I think a family counselor would be good - for all of you.

This does affect your children, greatly, even if they do not know al the details. Especially for your younger children, the idea of sex actually doesn't matter. The strongest point would be the idea that mom may have a friend she is too close to; a boyfriend. They can do that jump by themselves.

he has NOT confessed to that. She, 12 months before, had texted she was open to lying naked with him. The 8/4 incident was her going ice skating and then going back to his hotel room for a few hours. At first she said it was just lunch and hand holding and leaning together. Later she TT'd and said they did lie down together, but they did NOT have sex. She has agreed to take a lie detector test.

Ok I misunderstood. No, what she has done in the past isn't as paramount when she's continuing to contact him or long for him or whatever. She's deep in a fog. And unfortunately, even dealing with outside marital issues while *she's* deep in the fog is pretty difficult. It's hard to deal as two adults who respect, have compassion for, and are willing to compromise as adults when one's deep in resentment that's fueling/justifying her perspective and one's still being betrayed.

However, the two may be related in that some WS... until they have to fully face wtf they've done... they continue to minimize it to themselves and thus justify the affair. And sometimes, as a BS, even if we think we can handle something, we don't truly know (nor does the WS) until it's actually all on the table.

I'd book that polygraph, pronto.

Does OM still work at your daughters' school? I had read in previous posts that he lived out of state.

She has NOT confessed to that. She, 12 months before, had texted she was open to lying naked with him. The 8/4 incident was her going ice skating and then going back to his hotel room for a few hours. At first she said it was just lunch and hand holding and leaning together. Later she TT'd and said they did lie down together, but they did NOT have sex. She has agreed to take a lie detector test.

It is not important to me RIGHT NOW to know what they did on that mattress. It just doesn't. One day yes, I will want to know. What is important to me is that she NEVER AGAIN CONTACT HIM! I sent her an email on Thursday restating my boundaries and how important they are, and what does she do? She gets pissed and picks up the phone and Skypes OM. Kind of a "fuck you NP5, I'm the boss of me." And then my DD#3 walks in.

I suppose it is possible that she is telling the truth, although I find it very doubtful. Actually, I find it very, very, very doubtful.

Each instance if TT will set your recovery back. I believe you should strike while the iron is hot. She can prove her remorse by taking the polygraph now.

Get everything out in the open, then you can start your recovery.

Do you have access to all of her online accounts? Can you check records to see if this was truly a one time contact? Have you been able to verify if she ever went NC?

if you don't mind, i'd like to ask you a question. do you want to know if she's had sex with her AP?

Mike,

Yes I'd like to know, but the polygraph can be unreliable and the fact she is open to taking it now tends to support the fact she is telling the truth. It's not that I don't want to know, it's that I know enough for me right now to act on the information I have. She is still in the fog and has slid back into the affair. I have mind movies enough right now of them groping each other on a bed... I am focused on paying off my taxes, getting my wife to stop contact, and raising my kids.

Lark,

OM has moved from out of state since 8/4 and is now living down the street. So if WW wanted to, she could probably screw him every week. But, I have lots of ways, which I won't describe here, that I would detect so she would be caught sooner or later.

Last post for you. I really feel for you, but at this point you are really asking for a lot of pain.

Yes I'd like to know, but the polygraph can be unreliable and the fact she is open to taking it now tends to support the fact she is telling the truth.

You are flat wrong here. You want to believe the best of her, but it just isn't happening.

If you can't stand up for yourself, more hurts are on the way. Good luck. I hope you can find some anger soon.

NP5-

I won't address your WW's behavior and I'm not going to directly address how you're handling your WW's affair and the extended aftermath.

What I would like to say is that I've been in a longterm marriage (my first WH). I had to police his every move. I had traps set up and ways to detect if he did X, Y, or Z.

You know what? It is an exhausting, soul-sucking way to live. And it wasn't until after I decided to kick him out once and for all (removing the revolving door of him coming and going) that I was able to see just how insane my life had been.

"Catching" the lies does not keep a cheater from cheating. You're only verifying the crap behavior after its already done.

Is this how you want to live?

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 12:03 PM, February 24th (Tuesday)]

NP5 You have been given a lot of advice of which you choose to ignore. Your WW continues to throw the affair in your face. Meanwhile you keep defending her and telling everyone on here that you and her love each other. Me thinks you are delusional.

Even though she has habitualy lied to you from the day one you choose to believe that after professing her undying love for the OM and spending hours in a hotel room with that they just cuddled and fondled each other. Yeah OK.With a WW you will find that the affair is much more difficult to snuff out once the EA is a PA.

They are just good friends. Yeah OK.

She only wanted to know how he was doing. Yeah OK

How many times do you need to get smacked upside the head before you decide to grow a pair. All the advice in the world doesn't do you any good if you choose to ignore it.

Your wife gets caught, you get mad, she tells you some plausible explanation you dont talk to her for a couple days, you give her boundaries, then all is Ok. Then the cycle repeats.

You talk about having a marriage that is a rock. Unfortunately what I see of your situation a soggy sponge would be a more appropriate name.

Are you happy? Are your children happy? Actually do you think that your wife is happy? I can't imagine anyone in your home is. Going along as you have been hasn't improved anyone's quality of life. So what to do?

I think you avoid having the polygraph because you don't want your worst fears confirmed. Better to hope for the best, rather than know the worst. Even if you got bad results, you have a built in escape clause, polygraphs aren't always accurate. This way you can discount it and continue to avoid dealing with the issues in your M.

Doesn't matter you haven't been exposed to infidelity in your family. You and your children ARE experiencing it now! You need to start DEALING with it. You can't change your wife. If she skyed OM to make the point you can't control her, learn the lesson. You can only control you. So far what you have been doing hasn't been successful. Take a breathe, reassess and find a new plan to get you and your children out of infidelity. You notice I didn't say get your wife out of infidelity. That is hers to own.

You need to detach from your wife (didn't say divorce, because that clearly isn't a solution you can live with). Focus on your children, your career, hobbies, friends, building a happy place for yourself without including your wife. When you feel more secure in your life, you will be able to make decisions that more clearly reflect what you need and truly want you life to look like, with or without your wife. I wish you the best and hope you can find a path that leads you and yours to be CONTENT and HAPPY.

Your wife maintains that she's only met the OM 2x - once at his hotel after a date day together and again at his concert where he dedicated a song to her?

Whyd he move literally down the street then?

You have been warned. If your wife will go to the lengths she's gone to manipulate you, just imagine what she is doing to your daughter now.

She IS doing it to your children, especially the ones she's used to conceal the affair. I've given you direct consequences of that behavior experienced by other children of adulteresses.

Yet you hide saying - you can't relate. You can't fathom.

Evidence is right in front of you. She manipulates you. She is manipulating and extorting THEM. Your Children.

Stop. This. Now.

Please take a moment and re read the advice on this page, I know it seems harsh but it is all coming from the ability we have to look at your situation without emotion. Your feelings for your wife are clouding your judgment, harsh to say yes but true. If you don't make a change now you are in for a world of hurt.

I wish you good luck brother.

[This message edited by Johnnyfever at 12:24 PM, February 24th (Tuesday)]

Yes I'd like to know, but the polygraph can be unreliable and the fact she is open to taking it now tends to support the fact she is telling the truth.

She's banking on you making an excuse for her if she fails it. Calculated risk on her part because you'll swallow any line of shit she feeds you despite all manner of evidence to the contrary.

She is still in the fog

She ain't the only one. You're pretty damn foggy yourself.

Did she move out for three weeks, as per your instructions, or did you relent on that after the most recent discovery and apology?

A polygraph is far more reliable than a lying cheating spouse. It is unreliable if you use a fly-by-the-night examiner. Find an experienced examiner who has worked with FBI or law enforcement for years, and is certified. Our counselor was able to recommend one based on his experience and knowledge of the examiner from working in the criminal justice system. Questions are few and tailored to be objective. No subjective emotional type questions allowed. Any polygraph examiner that allows subjective emotional based questions is a farce.

Dude, she is calling your bluff for two reasons: 1) she knows that words don't have to match actions, she is counting on that you will not actually make her take the test, 2) she is hedging her bets that she can convince you a fail is the fault of the test, not more lies.

She should write a timeline before the polygraph of every physical and/or intimate relationship she has had with other men since the start of your marriage. She needs to share this with you.

Then, the questions for the polygraph can simply be around that timeline. Worded appropriately by the examiner to accurately, specifically and objectively get at the idea. . .Is she still hiding, omitting or lying to you about any information regarding her relationships with other men since the beginning of the marriage.

You need windows, not walls to build trust. You cannot have a marriage burying your head in the sand. Your not knowing the truth about the physical extent of her betrayal/s is allowing a wall or walls to remain. IMHO, you must remove the walls, face it all head-on, or end it.

Them knowing about the OM. Your dd telling you about broken NC. Is making them party to her adultery.

How do you handle this. Get them into therapy. Tell them Edith was wrong. You asked her to leave for 60 days. Did she?

Let's not.pretend this isn't the first time she has used the kids to conduct her affair.

Honestly if my fwh pulled this it would be on like donkey Kong and the papers filed. Since Edith doesn't care enough about her children to shield them it is up to you to do it. And that means filing for full custody.

You chose to have children it is your responsibility to protect them. Edith might say many things about why why why. None of it matters she is still involving your children and you are a party to it.

I feel like I am nagging but honestly. Edith is far from ready to recover. She is regretful but not enough to quit the ea. She lies to your dd about seeing the affair partner on Skype. She is psychologically abusing your child. So if Edith was physically abusing your child what would you do, let's.say she broke her arm?

[This message edited by PricklePatch at 12:51 PM, February 24th (Tuesday)]