SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

"...I've been good for awhile..."

Man that hurts.

FWS told me the same thing during Dday. He was talking about a three year period where he didn't have any affairs. Then he ratched up his actions and proceeded to have one every year.

It's a hollow statement. Don't put much meaning to it.

k9

[This message edited by k94ever at 7:21 AM, March 30th (Monday)]

NP5 - you are so desperate to make this work.

YOU said

But the OM is NOT a viable option for her long term. Everything she dislikes about me, he has way, way more of. He would drive her crazy (in a bad way). The only thing he has are poems and music and a vegan lifestyle, and smooth talking nonsense.

My response is who gives a flying F if it was viable or not. She still had fun doing it, so much so that she still is breaking NC every month or so.

She has done ZERO to identify her issues as to why she allowed herself to do this, and risk her career, her kids, and her spouse.

She is NOT remorseful. THIS IS NOT WHAT REMORSE LOOKS LIKE.

Good job on getting the Poly scheduled, and remember a parking lot confession does not equal the truth. Keep the appointment, and MAKE her do it.

Just a question based on her past. How likely do you think it is that BF is being used as a conduit for continued contact with OM?

Strength

As for exposing the affair, everyone already knows. Her affair has gone on for so long now, and enough people were told that everyone now knows.

Funny thing about affairs, everyone really does now, they can see and people are not stupid.

She has admitted that the "relationship" was toxic for her, for him, for me, and for her family.

The one thing about her sentence is when she says "for him." That still shows she cares about him. HE is a part of it, so why should she care. He continues to pursue her, say yes, well after you told him to F off.

She shows a concern for him, and she will never realize he is your enemy, he is the one person that screwed your life up.

Many will say, yea, but you didnt marry him. And that is true, but he is still a part of it.

So, she is concerned she was toxic to him, makes you wonder how she was toxic to him, what did she do to him that hurt him?

OK, I had a long talk with WW about BF.

She acknowledged that BF was at times toxic to our marriage. She is taking steps to back off and isolate that influence. She understands that I am not comfortable having her and BF alone. She will work to make me feel more safe and to have her accountable.

While she will scale back the friendship, she will not give her up entirely. She needs BF and BF needs her. She told me flat out that she won't NC BF, which I knew would be unacceptable for her. I didn't ask for that. All I need is that her BF no longer be the enabler and to stop being destructive to our relationship. She will work hard so it is not destructive and to appropriately distance herself from BF so she is not toxic to our marriage.

That's the best I could get from her.

WW, BF, and DD1 were planning a trip to New York to see sights. I am open to this, but only if DD1 goes as my wife's chaperone.

I am not out to kill the relationship. I am telling my wife what I am comfortable with and she has responded mostly how I wanted her too.

Polygraph is tentatively set for the end of April. Edith is OK with taking the polygraph but not enthusiastic about it at all. She says, "if that's what you have to do, it's what you have to do." If it were me, I would be wanting to get it done to prove I was clean.

Which leads us back to remorse. NC and remorse are the cornerstones for R. NC was broken a month ago. She isn't exuding remorse. So how do I feel I can R?

I've been referring to the affair as "ongoing". She's asked me to stop referring to the affair in present tense. Ok. I will. It is, after all, really Edith's decision. So if you tell me it's over, then it's your call. I've asked her to please note that she's told me that before. She has told me she didn't end it before because she "wasn't ready yet". She's ready now and it's over. OK, fine. We'll see. Nice to know she got her fill.

What about remorse? She's told me she's remorseful. I tell her she doesn't look so. Then she asks, "What do you want me to do, grovel !?!". No, groveling is not remorseful either or at least it doesn't need to be there. Sounds like something I need to convey to her, because she is missing it. I'm sure there are a bunch of threads on SI relating to "What does remorse look like?" I'll have to print those off and get them to her. But, if she did that herself, it would show... remorse!

5454, She wouldn't bother with BF to convey messages. I'm not so much concerned about BF "actively" participating. It's more an attitude that she gives off. Kind of, "Fuck what's expected of us, let's live it up!!" Which fed right into Edith's feeling of me being controlling and smothering and unappreciative. Which dovetailed into OM's silver tongue of how I should be trusting of WW's friendships and how he would never dictate how someone would live their life, etc. etc.

Uggggh! I am so screwed.

I'm going on vacation for a week on Saturday. Flying out west (all 7 of us) to see the Grand Canyon, Bryce, Zion, Petrified Forest, etc. It will be fun. After that, it's back to the to do list. If you see a minivan with a seemingly perfect couple, 4 gorgeous girls and a cute little boy, that's me.

Thanks again for all your support and advice.

NP5

If your wife had to choose between your marriage and her friendship with BF which would she choose?

only if DD1 goes as my wife's chaperone.

Why does your WW need a chaperone?

This isn't the first time you have mentioned your WW having a chaperone. Last time, I think it was her BF.

What is the chaperone's job..exactly? To keep an eye on your WW(who is a gown woman)?

Please do not put your CHILD in the position of being your WW's chaperone. You have a tendency to blame your WW's actions on every one else..except your WW. You are setting your child up.

Uggggh! I am so screwed.

Yes..you are.

At this point,np5, you are no longer a victim of your WW's abuse..you are a volunteer.

I feel very bad for you..and your children. Your fog is very thick. And you, at this point, are your own worst enemy.

Confused,

I need to clarify: I will not ask my DD to chaperone. Only that she will be with my wife. I will not ask my children to keep an eye on my wife, of course. I did not mean it that way and I understand your comment regarding that. I am not volunteering my wife to have an affair! I am not rugsweeping here!

Thank you for clearing that up.

WW, BF, and DD1 were planning a trip to New York to see sights. I am open to this, but only if DD1 goes as my wife's chaperone.

What the actual fuck, man? Do you even see how absolutely and completely wrong and dysfunctional this line of thinking is? You are supposed to protect your dd, to be her advocate, to be a safe and stable parent to her. You are not supposed to use her to babysit her cheating mother! You are putting her, a child still, smack dab in the middle of a highly emotionally charged, adult situation. Either way she will fail. If she catches her mom doing something she shouldn't be, she'll tell you, which will upset her mother and make your dd feel responsible for the entire mess. Alternately, if she catches her mother doing something she shouldn't do and lies or covers for her mother, then you will be upset with her, which will make your dd feel responsible for the whole mess.

What about remorse? She's told me she's remorseful. I tell her she doesn't look so. Then she asks, "What do you want me to do, grovel !?!

You know what true remorse looks like? Remorse looks like doing anything and everything within your power to make amends for the situation you've created. Sometimes that might involve groveling. It's definitely going to involve a lot of soul-searching, some intense IC and MC, and removal of oneself from people and situations that are detrimental to the marriage. That means letting go of the BF. Too bad, so sad, BF is NOT a friend to the marriage. She was complicit in allowing the A to happen. The BF needs to go. Remorse is also going to involve doing whatever you need from her, which will vary, since you're still on this rollercoaster. Some days you might not even want to look at your ww. Some days you might cling tightly to her. If you want to see true remorse, look up some posts by Aubrie or some of the other fws that "get" it.

The thing you haven't realized yet is that YOU are in control. If you're not, you should be. You have given your ww a precious gift, the gift of reconciliation, and she doesn't recognize or appreciate it.

Where is your anger, NP5? I agree with confused615- you are an active participant in this shit now instead of just a victim. But you are allowing your kids to be victimized too, first by your ww, and now by yourself- in your participation in this charade of a marriage and in asking your dd to "chaperone" your grown ass wife.

What do you want me to do, grovel !?!".

Be 100% honest with everything that did happen.

Number 2, admit you were 100% wrong with your so-called friendship with OM. Breaking NC, lying and deceiving you. Yes, admit it was an affair by all current definitions of an affair...EA and or PA.

That is not groveling, that is being an adult, an honest adult.

As for her BF, if your wife were trustworthy at this point, you would trust her to be with her BF. But that trust was broken too many times now.

Which fed right into Edith's feeling of me being controlling and smothering and unappreciative. Which dovetailed into OM's silver tongue of how I should be trusting of WW's friendships and how he would never dictate how someone would live their life, etc. etc.

The OMs thoughts should not be dictating how you feel in any way. I heard the same crap from the OM, how I should let my wife choose her friends. If I could have reached through the phone.....at that point.

I'm not so much concerned about BF "actively" participating. It's more an attitude that she gives off. Kind of, "Fuck what's expected of us, let's live it up!!" Which fed right into Edith's feeling of me being controlling and smothering and unappreciative. Which dovetailed into OM's silver tongue of how I should be trusting of WW's friendships and how he would never dictate how someone would live their life, etc. etc.

Now, imagine if your initial reaction since your first Dday, without knowing the bullshit rationalizations above that BF and OM fed to your WW about you, was to tell her to pack her luggage, move out of the house and go to live with the OM. Would that have been "controlling" behavior on your part? It's quite the opposite. Who knows if it would have tripped her up and shaken her a bit from her fog, but imagine this conversation -

OM - "Your husband is soooo evil and controlling! He won't let you have special friends like me! Why can't he just let you be?"

WW - "Actually, great news! He just did! When can I move in with you? Can you empty out half your closet and wardrobe for my clothes? I also have some lady products to store so can you also clear out the medicine cabinet and drawers? I'm ready to come over right now! I'll help you with lyrics on your next song!"

OM - <silent pause> "Ummm...Say what? Oh...hey...I gotta take this call..."

Sounds simplistic, but the OM and BF validated her to get something from your WW for their own selfish needs. It's obvious what the OM got out of it, but I'm betting the BF was living vicariously through your WW with the whole A to feed her own need for drama or maybe validation for something else.

You can still tell her to pack it up and leave, either to go to OM or live with BF. Don't forget that it is she who blew up the M, not you. She needs to do the work to make YOU feel safe, not her to feel safe keeping BF around while she cautiously dips her toes in the R pool and figures out if it is safe to resume or not.

I just read your posts and the responses to you. I am so sorry for your situation. It is tremendously hurtful. The fact that your children know is also very unfortunate. They are dealing with quite a lot inside those beautiful, innocent minds of theirs as a result of their mother's selfish, destructive decisions. Everything that you do is being watched by them. Everything. Accepting her treatment of you, seeing you choose to accept her behavior despite how little she values your relationship and your lives together is going to have an impact on them. They know what she has done. Now show them that you AND they deserve to be treated with more love and respect. I know this is so hard. We can tend to make it sound easy when making decision after being betrayed like this is the hardest thing we will face in life. But...

Polygraph is tentatively set for the end of April. Edith is OK with taking the polygraph but not enthusiastic about it at all. She says, "if that's what you have to do, it's what you have to do." If it were me, I would be wanting to get it done to prove I was clean.

This is not a woman who understands your worth and the worth of her children. If she did, she would be resounding by telling you that she will give you the truth AND whatever else you need in order to begin to feel safe and recover from this. Please set parameters and boundaries. Make some decisions about what you are willing to accept for you and your children and what you cannot, as the example you area for them as they watch every move that both you and she make. You are helping them to form their ideas about what acceptable treatment looks like within a relationship. Ask if what they are seeing is what you want them to take away as the healthy image of how to be treated in a marriage....

I think I may sound cold and harsh, but I really understand this is NOT easy and the hurt is tremendous; soul crushing even. This is not easy. If you stand up for what you deserve, the pain will still be there, but you will feel pride in demanding to be valued the way you deserve and accepting nothing less, regardless of what the outcome will be. You and they deserve that much AND more.

She'll have remorse when she feels it. Remorse isn't a switch, it's a process. Theres a lot of things remorse is built on - compassion, accountability, empathy, moral compass.

Which dovetailed into OM's silver tongue of how I should be trusting of WW's friendships and how he would never dictate how someone would live their life,

rephrase this

She surrounded this with people - her BF And OM - who supported her feelings of entitlement and fed her selfishness and narcisissm. And she indulged in doing whatever she wanted, regardless of the pain of others, because she felt she had the right to "live her life." And if others were hurt or didn't want to be hurt, she - and encouraged others to - cast them in a negative light, like "controlling" her.

It becomes very different when she's suddenly accountable for her own actions and not the victim of BF and OM.

The ow in my case covered up her affair with my wh..and she had her 3 kids lying to their dad to cover up her dirty secret..I just told the dad Friday and was so glad so he could help those kids..its sick what someeople will do..

Notperfect,

I have read your post, and I'll suggest that you read it once more since the beginning as if you are reading the story of another.

I will not be easy on you as you need to wake up.

You are still under shock, and you have lost your sense of evaluation. If you are not going to shake your wife strongly and break her fog, you are rug sweeping.

Note that, your girls are watching you and you are loosing your value as family man. You are afraid of losing, but you have already lost. You need to man up and rock their world.

If I were you, I will file for divorce, serve her and expose her everywhere Then wait and see how she will come bagging you to win you back.

Sooner or later people will know, and they have already started the gossips. Just remember nothing remains uncovered if it goes out of two persons.

Your wife will not respect you as the man you are (passive), she will never be remorseful unless you man up and show her the man you are. She needs to bag to get you back or you are just torturing yourself for 1 or 2 more years and than she will kick your A$$ out.

I'm sorry for you, and I will not tell you that things are Ok as they are NOTTTTTT.

One more thing. pack her stuff and kick her out. She has no place in your house till she come crawling and remorseful.

I am not volunteering my wife to have an affair! I am not rugsweeping here!

Yes, you are doing both.

I hate to say bluntly what everyone else here is trying to say gently, but this is precisely what you are doing. It is totally ok (with you) that she continues have private contact with her affair partner, and even that she takes sightseeing trips with him. The only way to end your wife's emotional connection with her lover (errr, "friend") is for ALL connection with him to end. Completely.

It is your life, just have open eyes with what you are choosing. You'd rather share your wife and stay married than divorce. Be honest with yourself about what you're doing, and if you feel good about that, continue as you are.

She'll have remorse when she feels it. Remorse isn't a switch, it's a process. Theres a lot of things remorse is built on - compassion, accountability, empathy, moral compass.

Lark, I agree.

Is remorse a choice or a feeling? Is it something to be felt, learned, or chosen?

If it is a feeling, then how can I be critical of her missing a feeling? It's like I'm criticizing her for being color blind.

If it is learned, then I can show her and teach her. Better, she can research it herself and read up on it.

If it is chosen, then I can't help her there. She is on her own and no prodding, teaching, or enlightening will help.

She has shown me that I had financial infidelity. I invested or used money without her knowledge or consent. Or if I had consent, it was over used and abused and I didn't keep her informed. Now there is a difference between financial and emotional/sexual infidelity. But this is "Surviving Infidelity" website, not "Surviving Emotional or Sexual Infidelity". I wouldn't put myself into the madhatter camp, but this entire experience has shown me how my behavior has hurt her. I just didn't see it or understand it or feel it before. Now I choose to avoid that behavior carefully that hurts her and I have my own set of behavioral boundaries I have set up to protect her (and my family).

What I am getting at is back to remorse. I viewed "net worth" as paramount to financial health and well being. She, I have learned, views cash flow as paramount. This difference in perception has caused tremendous pain and conflict. Oh how I wish I would have seen it earlier! Do I regret my mistakes? Yes. Am I remorseful? Only after my wife beat my head against it for years and had an affair!!

So I'm willing to cut her some slack. She worked with me for years till I "pulled my head out". I'm going to work with her on this point too. Hopefully she almost gets it!

How on earth did your WW convince you, you're controlling?

She has done exactly what she has pleased for months

[This message edited by azteca at 3:44 PM, March 30th (Monday)]