SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hopefully OP lives in a no fault state, which will make a one party divorce go more smoothly. Either way, if WW opposes the D moving forward OP can do it on his own,
but it makes it that much harder.

OP - has your lawyer offered any advice/strategy to make the D move forward efficiently despite your WW’s refusal to cooperate?

I just want nothing to do with her. I've only gone off on her once. Co-parenting for awhile will be fine I hope after we finally get divorced and she stops with the annoying crying and begging.

Once the kids are off to college soon I'll be free.

I understand why you feel this way, believe me.

I have been divorced for about nine years and still want absolutely nothing to do with my XWW, who is also mother of my two kids.

There is a difference, based on what I have read about your situation, between your STBXWW and my XWW.

Your STBXWW sounds like she has genuine remorse about what she has done and has genuinely apologized.

My XWW was absolutely horrific, heinous, remorseless, and callous as fuck - yet, she wanted to reconcile.

I could not reconcile with this horrific excuse of human debris (yes, the mother of my children) even if she had genuine remorse and was willing to do all that was needed by me.

I knew I could not live with her betrayal as she went way, way beyond the point of no return.

To this day, she still treats me with the same contempt and disrespect that she was during her adultery.

No matter what I do, she will always see me as a reminder of what a total failure she is as a human being as she knows I see her for what she really is and not the image she works so hard on portraying to everyone else.

I think you have an opportunity to have a good relationship with your STBXWW after the divorce because your WW, as opposed to my XWW, seems to have taken actual accountability for what she has done.

It will take some time but, the benefit to your kids will be great.

I still feel pain for my kids everyday because they have parents that simply don’t want anything to do with each other - and I’m sure this has been very sad for them for many years now.

I still have a good relationship with my XWW’s family, even though I don’t see them that much, and they were supportive of me through the divorce.

They were disgusted with her behavior.

My XWW has not spoken to my parents since she got caught - and my parents absolutely loved and adored her up to that point.

My parents never cursed her or anything like that at all - they were just shocked, disappointed, and profoundly heartbroken for everyone, especially our kids.

I mention this to give you an idea of what kind of person my XWW is and what I deal with.

Your STBXWW is not like my XWW and that means you should be able to establish a good, friendly relationship, at some point, after the divorce.

I understand your anger for what she has done but I would try and not call her anything derogatory.

You can be separate and divorced from her but still have a respectful relationship for the sake of your children - they will be grateful for that one day.

For me, it will never happen no matter how much I wish so as my XWW is a true and terminal narcissistic sociopath.

[This message edited by keptmyword at 3:09 AM, Tuesday, March 22nd]

Keptmyword

I don't want to be friends with her. I just want to co parent and keep contact to a minimum. Then when the kids are grown never see her again.

She's evil, there's no other word to describe her. How she or anyone could do this to someone, especially given what happened with my mom cheating on my dad is just evil. She's not "broken" just bad.

Telling the kids soon. Hope it goes well

Nothere, I understand your anger; especially because Dday is relatively close. You’ve made it clear that you intend to D as your way to move out of infidelity. There is nothing wrong with that.

However, after the D (and perhaps leading up to it) the goal is indifference not anger or friendship. For the sake of your kids, I would encourage you to be civil to their mother.

While your children are still minors engage with her only when you have to, and do so in a civil manner. Think of her as a cashier or waitress with whom you need to exchange information to achieve what you want. As a co-parent that will be key to your kids success. Being overtly rude or hurtful to the cashier/waitress will only make it harder to achieve your goals. The same is true regarding your STBXWW and your kids.

You said in your initial post that you are largely indifferent to your mother now. That’s the goal here too. Consciously making an effort to get to indifference sooner than later will be better for all involved.

I am going to be civil.

So I'm going to ask for advice how to do this because they know about what my mother did and they absolutely hate her. Would it be better not to tell them why? I don't know. We are a Christian family so Adultery is the only valid reason for divorce in the Christian religion and the adulterer cannot get remarried. Since they are very learned on doctrine and are almost adults I'm concerned they'd discern that's what happening if we do go that route.

I just don't know

Since they are nearly adults I would say that they are old enough to understand what infidelity is. Stick to the facts and tell them that their mother has committed infidelity with another man and therefore you've chosen to divorce her. Leave it to them how they deal with that in their relationship with her.

We always encourage age appropriate honesty.

Also,consider kids aren't stupid. They typically know more than we give them credit for.

They need to know you will be honest with them. Even when it hurts. Don't let what your ww did,make you a liar to your children.

You don't need to give them details. They're old enough to be told the truth. You're divorcing because your wife was unfaithful.

Their relationship with their mother is not yours to protect,or repair. That's her job. If they are angry, then rightfully so. She betrayed them as well.

Several have mentioned that she seems remorseful. Although you've really not talked about what happened,or is happening,enough to decide that,IMO. As your wife,she knew full well how you felt about adultery. She knew full well how your nearly adult children feel about adultery. And she did it anyway. To her,it was worth the risk, despite how sorry she feels now. Many WS will tell you they didn't know how their BS would feel if they were caught. She can't say that.

So she knew the consequences, and did it anyway.

When you tell your children, refrain from making derogatory remarks about their mother. Answer their questions, to an extent. If they want to know who OM is,tell them that. But they don't need the dirty details. Encourage them to talk it out with their mother. Don't discourage their relationship. But be honest. They need that.

Actually only one segment of the Christian Church is strictly against divorce, allowing for annulment and even some form of non-living-together-but-not-married process. Non-Catholic Christians generally allow divorce for more reasons, the most orthodox add abuse, abandonment and addiction into the mix.
You have referred to your Christian faith. I suggest you seek guidance through a pastor or elder. Most Christians see the Second Testament as the true doctrine, with the First being more groundwork.
I’m fine with you having none or minimal relationship with your wife, but I do hope your kids don’t carry the same resentment you do. Their Christian values can come into play here because at the base the religion is one of love and tolerance. You know – love the sinner, not the sin, redemption, the other cheek, respect your parents and your elders…

I'm reformed (calvinist) which is the Orthodox faith. Scripture says only adultery is grounds for divorce. Other sects adding non biblical traditions doesn't matter to me.

Also of course. I have forgiven my mother but I still want nothing to do with her. However nobody can forgive perfectly.

This is definitely the hardest part so far.

[This message edited by Nothere759 at 10:49 PM, Tuesday, March 22nd]

I do think forgiveness and the way you behave after is a very tricky thing. It is a spiritual struggle, ongoing.

Saying we forgive yet avoiding further abuse from that person seems to make good sense. Saying we forgive but wanting nothing further to do with your close family may mean more work is to be done.

I just don't want to keep an abuser in my life.

[This message edited by Thingsthatmakeyougohmm at 11:41 AM, Wednesday, March 23rd]

It has been awhile since Dday for me. I actually had to look it up in my bio to get the date straight. Funny that. Almost 4.5 years now. I guess indifference is just around the corner for me...

After finding out about my STBXWW'S infidelity, I was an absolute wreck, cycling between a myriad of emotions. It really messed with my head and even this far out, I have memory issues which I am beginning to suspect are perminant.

My point here is that right after Dday, I saw my STBXWW as a monster. I mean after all, what else could she be? How could she have lied and betrayed everyone around her, and for what? The juice just couldn't be worth the squeeze. The only answer I could find was she hadto be a monster. But I came to realize later, I have no idea how long it took me, that I was using my rational mind to try and understand a completely irrational act. I think that is the reason so many waywards say things like "I can't believe what I did" or "That wasn't the real me who did that". Of course, through the pain and anger that we experience, this type of thinking is laughable. I mean, then who where you? Did you magically transform into another person and now back?

But I think this speaks to a deeper issue of a wayward betraying their core beliefs, or at least the core beliefs that they were under the impression they held. After discovery, they invariably look into the mirror and see the real person looking back, and I imagine that it is a terrifying experience, especially if that person is ugly. I imagine that a truly introspective wayward might see something monstrous looking back.

To the less introspective waywards, they might want to retreat into the safety of detachment and compartmentalization in order to avoid psychic death. Healthy? No. Understandable? Yes. I mean, who wants to be the villain in their own narrative? Most likely, this is a learned behavior or FOO issue, at least it was for my STBXWW. Her family was a mess.

You see, I have many FOO issues, but luckily, I've managed to remain a pretty decent human being over the years, never really doing anything horrific to anyone. Sure, I've caused pain due to my actions, but not on the scale of an affair, so it's pretty easy to keep the moral high ground when talking about infidelity. But again, I am not without sin.

As time has passed and my emotions have settled more, I have come to see my STBXWW, not as a monster or evil, but as a deeply flawed and broken human being who does not have the capacity to consider others in any meaningful way. She is not some Machiavellian mastermind but just a really shitty, low quality human being. It may not be her fault that she turned out that way, but her actions are her responsibility and I am in no way obligated to endure them, especially after she unilaterally removed my agency. So in some respect I've come to feel a bit sorry for her as I can see the sort of existence she has condemned herself to. Even after 5 years, she is still thinking the same shitty things and making the same shitty choices. It a scorpion and coyote thing I guess.

My daughter asked me if my STBXWW and I would ever get to a place where we could hang out together during holidays or significant events? Now, they have refused to talk about the reasons for the D, but I am certain they are aware of the core issues. I simply told her that after leaving her mother, I keep my circle small, only allowing the highest quality people in, and bar a complete change in character, her mother just did not qualify. My daughter completely understood as she is at an age where she can see patterns of behavior in not only her mother, but in her own friends. Hell, she even calls me out all the time over my bad behavior, a fact that has earned my respect.

Sorry for the wall of text here. I guess what I am saying is that your feelings about your WW might change and evolve over time. That does not mean R or even forgiveness, just that how you feel now is not how you might feel in five or ten years, and to allow for that possibility. Give yourself the grace to process your trauma as you see fit, but also the openess to other possibilities. You may not be available place where you send each other birthday cards, but you might get to a place where you are okay, and okay can be a good thing.

How to tell your kids...

"Your mom betrayed me the same way my mother betrayed my father. She cheat on me with another man."

Short and to the point. You can certainly choose to lie about why you are divorcing. I doubt you want to carry the burden of her secrets for the years to come. This course will also lead to difficulties later on for you with the kids because you had to lie or chose to withhold the truth from them. Your kids love you dearly. They cannot stand what your mom's affair did to you. Don't do anything to violate their trust and faith in you.

Will your wife's relationship with the kids be damaged, yes. That was a risk she was willing to take when she chose to have an affair and she did it without any thought to the possible consequences. She was willing to gamble that nobody would ever find out and if you did, you wouldn't divorce her. She on her own has destroyed the marriage and the family. Leave it to her alone to rebuild her relationship with the kids. She made her choice and it wasn't her family or marriage that she chose when she decided to spread her legs for another man.

Forgiveness doesn't mean you forget, ever. Just means you learn to accept what has been done and that nothing you would have or could have done would have prevented it. You did nothing to motivate this betrayal. Forgiveness does not obligate you to ever talk to, trust, like or spend time with your betrayer. You don't have to be friends. A civil but cold business like approach is all that is necessary.

I have forgiven my ex wife. I haven't seen her or talked to her in more than 20 yrs. It still took years to accept what was done. I rebuilt my life in that time and my ex wife is at best a faded memory. Time is your friend. Rebuild your life without her and forgiveness will come on its own without prompting.

[This message edited by smolderingdark at 2:41 PM, Wednesday, March 23rd]

Well telling the kids went as well as I expected. Told them I was divorcing their mother because she was unfaithful and they just looked at me, then her, then me. Asked her if it was true she was already on the verge of tears before I said anything she just started sobbing and said yes I'm sorry yes I'm sorry I'm such a whore I'm sorry. My kids just got up and left and came back in the evening.

I asked them what they thought and that we both loved them. They reminded me of what happened with my mother and I said I know but it's your choice what type of relationship, if any you want with her and not to let what I did affect their decision and I would support them either way.

They asked what the plans are and I said I wanted to share custody until they left for school. They asked if they could just stay with me and I said I'd have to ask the lawyer (they are 16 and 17 by the way) they asked what are you going to do after we leave and I said never talk or see their mother again unless it was some special occasion like graduation, weddings, grandchildren etc.

They just said okay and that's where we are now

There are actually no real issues here. The court will grant joint custody but given your kids ages they should be able to self determine. Just not 100% are the 16 year old.

No need to file for primary and possibly cause the D to run incurring attorneys fees.

At their age, they will be able to choose their primary residence.

Not that you will, but please don't try to force them to forgive her,or have a relationship with her. They are old enough to know their feelings,and that should be respected.

Your STBXWW is going to have to repair the damage in those relationships. I hope she at least tries.

Yup they want to stay with me and they hate her.

I got home today after running errands and I see them both screaming at her with her sitting on the floor a mess. She's on the verge of a breakdown with me not talking to her and the kids hating her

Fun times, wish she'd cooperate so this would go faster and I can move on with my life. Cheaters were just never who you thought they were, this is who they always were and it makes me despair when I think about the years I wasted.

So that's the ticket for today

Also looking for counciling for the kids. Even though they probably don't need it like I didn't need it when I was in their position or need it now.

I guess they're like me and just don't want an evil person in their life.

If she’s not already, I would encourage your STBXW to get counseling. Like intensive therapy multiple times a week counseling. In the past WS in situations like this have taken drastic actions that can’t be undone. Even though they may be furious with her right now your kids may want her in their lives later if she changes and grows because of this tragedy. It would be terrible if they never had that opportunity.