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We broke up

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Walloped ( member #48852) posted at 7:42 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

I haven't responded. I'm not sure whether to stay silent altogether or to send a reply saying "stop calling and texting me; the only thing I want you to do is let me go." Or I could actually explain to her why I don't trust what she's saying anymore.

Be civil, but do not argue the point. There is nothing to be gained. All you will do is start arguing over whether your feelings and viewpoint is valid or not, which is pointless.

A simple note saying "I'm sorry you feel this way, but my mind is made up. We should focus on separating our lives as quickly as possible to make the transition easier for both of us," should suffice, and then be done with it.

Me: BH 47
Her: WW 46
DDay 8/3/15
"Every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don’t always soften the bad things, but vice versa the bad things don’t necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant.” - The Doctor

posts: 1816   ·   registered: Aug. 6th, 2015   ·   location: New York
id 7584920
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Lark ( member #43773) posted at 7:55 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

Toopol, you have been one of the most level-headed bs I've seen in the raw early days. Kudos to you for being so civil to her

Her email is disgusting, btw. That it is STILL all about her and trying to manipulate you. It's about *her* feeling sure now. It's about *her* being stupid to see potential. It's "*you think we're done."

And that she bcc'd him - I actually wasn't thinking about what's going on between her and him to do that. Of course they're messed up. What I kept thinking is how profoundly disrespectful TO YOU to bcc her fuckbuddy on an email SHE knows will hurt you. So they can mock you? Know how fake she is in it?

Just wow.

Actual getting it in her email today would look something like "I am so horribly sorry for the pain I've caused you. I have lied and manipulated you. I was horribly cruel to you while I blabbered on all about me. That I put you through talking about "potential" with him is sickening. That I bcc'd someone who has so openly disrespected and hurt you - engaging with him in further disrespect - is horrible. I respect your choice to end this, and I'm so sorry"

Except it's still all about her. And you only *think* you know what you want. And shouldn't you feel special that she's realized this other guy doesn't have potential?

She's quite manipulative.

“It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.” - Dumbledore

posts: 4131   ·   registered: Jun. 18th, 2014   ·   location: California
id 7584933
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Western ( member #46653) posted at 8:19 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

is all of her stuff out of the house yet ?

posts: 3608   ·   registered: Feb. 4th, 2015   ·   location: U.S.
id 7584948
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Killian ( member #50882) posted at 8:33 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

Her email is disgusting. All this AFTER she screwed her lover again. Oh wait, "only a few times", yeah, like it matters. Geez. Once again she realizes her "mistake", and begs for you to take her back. S...i...c...k... She is an evil manipulative...ugh, so sorry for you, but glad it was discovered now.

I think blocking her number is a good idea she has nothing more to say. But I would be so mad, I would reply to her email, and CC not Bcc lover boy, and thank him for saving you. Mean, yes. But it pales in comparison. Just a suggestion.

I agree, use exposure to her parents as a trump card if she persists. I would expose to everyone else though.

I admire your handling of this sad situation, you are indeed standing tall.

Again, best wishes

posts: 116   ·   registered: Dec. 19th, 2015
id 7584959
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Walloped ( member #48852) posted at 8:41 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

Lark's posts have been so clear-headed and spot on. They get to the heart of what's been going on. They may be tough for you to read, but read them over and over anyway. Do not gloss over them. I'd print them out and carry them with me. And every time she contacts you, I'd pull those out to read before making a move.

Me: BH 47
Her: WW 46
DDay 8/3/15
"Every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don’t always soften the bad things, but vice versa the bad things don’t necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant.” - The Doctor

posts: 1816   ·   registered: Aug. 6th, 2015   ·   location: New York
id 7584967
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yearsofpain25 ( member #42012) posted at 8:49 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

One more thing I would like to add. You may experience some hoovering because she is clearly a manipulator. Keep this in mind as well:

Hoovering Definition:

Hoovers & Hoovering - A Hoover is a metaphor, taken from the popular brand of vacuum cleaners, to describe how an abuse victim, trying to assert their own rights by leaving or limiting contact in a dysfunctional relationship gets "sucked back in" when the perpetrator temporarily exhibits improved or desirable behavior.

Description:

The Hoovering metaphor comes from the popular Hoover brand of vacuum cleaners. Hoovering describes how a non-personality-disordered person, while attempting to escape an abusive situation, gets sucked back into the status quo.

Hoovering commonly occurs:

After an emotional outburst, violence or other extreme period of abuse when the victim is most likely to leave, retaliate or seek help from others.

When the victim starts to pull away from the relationship, leave the relationship or establish firmer boundaries within the relationship.

When the abuser internally feels unworthy and fears the loss of the relationship.

A hoovering abuser may shower their victim with gifts, compliments, promises, demonstrations of love and affection in order to persuade the victim to maintain the status quo.

Hoovering is one of the key components of an Abusive Cycle. Without Hoovering, most abusers would be living alone. Hoovering is the "plus side" to many abusers that makes an abusive relationship seem worthwhile to many victims and sustains abusive relationships over the long term.

Hoovering requires two willing parties to be effective: the person doing the hoovering and the person being hoovered, who allows themselves to be abused and then sucked back in.

What it feels like:

Hoovering feels good! And that's the point! When you are being hoovered, your buttons are all getting pushed, your feelings are getting validated, your needs are being met, your wildest dreams are coming true, your opinions matter, you are the most important person in the world to that certain person.

Hoovering often feels like vindication. You might find yourself thinking “Finally! The message is getting through! I’m not crazy after all! Now THAT is what I’m talking about!” But watch out...

When you are starving for any emotional food, just about any kind of personal validation tastes wonderful, but you must remember that not everything that tastes delicious is nutritious.

Manipulative abusers are often adept at giving their victims enough of what they want to keep them where they want them. Even slave owners know that they have to feed them enough to keep them healthy and productive.

But how do I know if a hoover is 'real"?

Many Non-personality disordered people struggle with trying to tell whether a hoover really is a hoover, or if it is a sincere attempt at change by the personality-disordered person whom they care about.

The mistake in that logic is that it assumes that it can't be both. Many abusers and personality-disordered people really are sincere and really are trying when they also are hoovering. People who are hoovering you may not be consciously trying to manipulate you or deceive you. They may sincerely be trying, even hoping, to make it "better this time". They may not be consciously lying when they make promises of change and put them into practice. They may be so convincing because they are so convinced.

You are going to have to be like the adult in a parent-child relationship, who listens to their child's black-and-white promises of great expectations or of "I'll never talk to him/her again" and says "Hmm, we'll wait and see".

If you're not sure if you're being hoovered you should wait and see. Take the long-term view. A person's character is like an average of their behaviors over their lifetime. People can and do make positive changes in their lives sometimes, deciding to change their behavior for the better. Wait a year and see.

Coping with Hoovering:

If somebody who has been treating you abusively starts to treat you well, there's no harm in letting them knock themselves out and give yourself a break, but you must be careful not to take the bait to erode your boundaries, settle for less than you deserve, stop doing things that are healthy for you or stop exercising your own independence.

What NOT to do:

Don't change any of your boundaries or allow them to be broken during a hoover.

Don't relax or give up on any consequences of previous poor decisions for the abuser.

Don't stop any healthy activities or relationships you may be engaged in elsewhere.

Don't assume the hoover will last forever.

Don't use a hoover to bargain for a better life. You are setting up the abuser to break a promise and setting yourself up for a disappointment.

What TO do:

Remember that mood swings are a normal part of a number of personality disorders and that what goes up must come down.

Accept that highs and lows are a part of everyone's emotional life and that, for a personality-disordered person, those may be more intense and lead swings in behavior.

Maintain all your healthy lifestyle habits and relationships with others.

Take the long-term view. Wait a year.

Get yourself off the roller coaster. Position yourself so that your safety and happiness isn't dependent on a personality-disordered person's mood.

Another one:

What is Hoovering?

Think of a big old vacuum cleaner gliding along the carpet making a LOT of noise coming your way with promises that it will clean up the mess and make everything "right".

Hoovering is when the abuser wants to "suck" you back in to the abuser's "game". This means that the abuser needs some more of what we call "narcissistic source" or attention. This can be negative or positive attention.

An abuser will use many different kinds of hoovering attempts.

Some examples of hoovering include:

1. Health issues. The abuser will need you to help them out because they are having health issues.

2. Promises of change. They say they will go to therapy. They will do "anything" to make you happy. False, empty promises they are, but the abuser can seem to be convincing and serious about it.

3. Financial issues. The abuser contacts you and says that he will lose everything if you don't give him money. It is always a crisis.

4. The abuser will show up at club meetings, school activities, events, etc where you attend and will begin to give you meaningful looks or try to speak with you.

5. Calls, Texts, E mails. You will boot up your computer one day to find you are once again being "love bombed" by e mail. Or by texts on your phone. This is why you have to block them from being able to contact you in any way.

6. By triangulation. Sometimes the abusers will use family members or friends who will call you or just run into you and who will give you a message from the abuser.

ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT ABUSERS DON'T CHANGE. JUST BECAUSE THEY SAY THEY HAVE CHANGED, ONLY CONSISTENT LONG-TERM POSITIVE BEHAVIOR CAN PROVE IT.

A few nice words don't really mean anything except they were spoken.

yop

"I remind myself of this. I am a survivor. I have taken all this world has dished out and am still here. So there is no reason to be afraid. Whatever happens, I will survive. So now onto living. It is time for me to thrive." - DrJekyll

posts: 4519   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2014   ·   location: Northeast US
id 7584970
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Crushed7 ( member #41129) posted at 9:18 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

From a guy who has been through 7 betrayals, it took A LOT for my eyes to be opened and for me to see all the mistakes I made. There is no "I told you so", only profound sadness about what you've been through and relief that you've gained the clarity need to make a clean break.

I plan to keep going to therapy

Excellent plan. There will be much to grieve and that alone is a difficult road to walk. More importantly, dig into what it was that pulled you in to her lies and manipulations. You'll want to make certain to heal fully and grow stronger so that you don't fall victim to another manipulative woman.

While this part of your story is now coming to a close, hang around! Unfortunately, you still have to ride the emotional roller coaster that comes with being betrayed and you'll always be welcome to vent and discuss things all you like.

Me-BH
Her-WW
Last DDay-2012 (several month EA/PA)
Married 30+ years

posts: 3797   ·   registered: Oct. 27th, 2013
id 7584993
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Trivial ( member #45546) posted at 10:18 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

I'm not sure whether to stay silent altogether or to send a reply saying "stop calling and texting me the only thing I want you to do is let me go." Or I could actually explain to her why I don't trust what she's saying anymore.

I advise writing out what you want to say to her, but don't send it to her.

Lay it all out, explain to this brain-damaged person exactly why you are breaking up with her. Write it as if she will read it, understand it and actually realize how badly she screwed up. But after you are done writing, tear it up, or delete it. Or save it somewhere to read later. Post it here if you want. But in real life, don't give her anything more of you.

I think what you want is for her to understand, really understand what she has done. You want your pain seen and acknowledged by her. That isn't going to happen. From what you've written, I don't think she has the maturity or emotional intelligence for that. You need to get to a place where that is okay, and you can let go without her ever "getting it."

BW: 48 (me)
WH: 50
Married 19 years 2 kids
DD: August 9 2014
5 month EA with COW, unrequited.
Anon chat room
fishing on FB and in live action, admits to being 'on the lookout' for an affair.
WH says no PA
12/2/14: tested + for HPV

posts: 639   ·   registered: Nov. 8th, 2014   ·   location: Kansas City
id 7585025
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SquirrelFace ( member #52946) posted at 10:28 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

I haven't responded. I'm not sure whether to stay silent altogether or to send a reply saying "stop calling and texting me; the only thing I want you to do is let me go." Or I could actually explain to her why I don't trust what she's saying anymore.

Gonna join the others and say continue "no contact".

Men do their best communication by their actions. By not responding that is is you communicating "let me go" and I guarantee you she reads it loud and clear. Opening a dialogue tells her she has a chance to sway you back. It gives her the message that you are unsure. If you still feel the urge to send anything keep it to one word responses. "Stop" and "no" work great.

You said you felt she would hop on a plane or quit her job, but has she? Right now there is nothing stopping her from doing either of those things. But she won't do either of those things unless she is guaranteed getting you back first. She is just all talk and no action.

[This message edited by SquirrelFace at 4:33 PM, June 17th (Friday)]

posts: 52   ·   registered: Apr. 26th, 2016
id 7585031
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spiderwebb ( member #50827) posted at 10:39 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

Did u respond to his email? I would have lol but I'm kinda evil like that.

My email would have been

Sorry you are her second choice. But she is all yours now!!!

posts: 213   ·   registered: Dec. 14th, 2015   ·   location: ind
id 7585039
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Lark ( member #43773) posted at 10:43 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

Agree on no contact. You can't make her get it. If it helps you, write it all out in a journal or as something to bring to your ic.

“It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.” - Dumbledore

posts: 4131   ·   registered: Jun. 18th, 2014   ·   location: California
id 7585042
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 toopol (original poster member #52895) posted at 10:56 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

Thanks for the info about Hoovering, yop. I think that's exactly what's going on. And yeah, it would feel good to accept all this attention! But I know it's not good for me. I haven't responded to her latest long email. I still have some urge to respond since I know she's being torn up (and I still somehow care about her), but I'm wary of making it harder on myself or giving her false hope. So for now I'm staying silent.

I'm a liiiiittle worried that she might threaten suicide or something. Does anyone have advice for that scenario?

Regarding the apartment: I'm thinking that it might be a good idea for me to move out before she gets back from her trip, regardless of what we decide for who gets to keep the place. If she gets to keep it, then I'll already be gone. If I get to keep it, then she can have some time to move out and then I can move back in. (All the furniture is hers, so it wouldn't be too much trouble for me.)

If she wants to stay, there's another apartment available in the same complex, which would let me keep the same great rent and location and floor plan... but I assume that's a really bad idea, right?

posts: 136   ·   registered: Apr. 23rd, 2016
id 7585048
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ZenMumWalking ( member #25341) posted at 11:09 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

I'm a liiiiittle worried that she might threaten suicide or something. Does anyone have advice for that scenario?

Direct her emails into a spam folder and stop reading them? Have a friend of yours screen her emails and then let you know if there is anything that you need to respond to?

If she does make this threat (or 'threat'), call the police or 911 (if in the US) to make a welfare check on her. If she is doing it as manipulation, then she is unlikely to repeat that. If she is serious, then the best people to take care of her will be on it. Win-win.

But do NOT engage personally. There is nothing that you can do or not do that will save her life.

there's another apartment available in the same complex, which would let me keep the same great rent and location and floor plan... but I assume that's a really bad idea, right?

You're a fast learner!! Look for a new place that's YOURS, and not tainted or risking repeated, unnecessary (and painful) contact with her.

NC = no new hurts.

Strength.

((((toopol))))

Me (BS), Him (WH): late-50's
3 DS: 26, 25, 22
M: 30+ (19 1/2 at Dday)
Dday: Dec 2008
Wanted R, not gonna happen (in permanent S)
Used to be DeadMumWalking, doing better now

posts: 8533   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2009   ·   location: EU
id 7585052
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Lyonesse ( member #32943) posted at 11:14 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2016

I'm a liiiiittle worried that she might threaten suicide or something. Does anyone have advice for that scenario?

Call the police and report it immediately. If she's really suicidal, she needs professional help. If she's trying to get your attention, she'll learn not to use that manipulative tactic again.

Me: BS, 40's.

posts: 1956   ·   registered: Jul. 29th, 2011   ·   location: West Coast
id 7585056
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 toopol (original poster member #52895) posted at 12:07 AM on Saturday, June 18th, 2016

Okay, that makes sense. I don't think it'll get to that point. My guess is that she'll turn to the other guy for comfort, feel shitty about it, and come home next week as planned. If instead she gets more dramatic or histrionic about it, I might contact her parents (just to tell them that we've broken up and that she needs their support).

We have another session with our therapist on Tuesday. I'm planning to keep the discussion to logistics and moving-on. I think I can have my stuff moved out by then, but I hope to convince her to move out after me anyway. It'll be her choice at that point, but I guess I'd rather find a new place than fight over it or risk living together any longer.

posts: 136   ·   registered: Apr. 23rd, 2016
id 7585075
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yearsofpain25 ( member #42012) posted at 12:33 AM on Saturday, June 18th, 2016

I'm a liiiiittle worried that she might threaten suicide or something. Does anyone have advice for that scenario?

Unfortunately yes. I myself had suicide ideation from my early teens through my early 20s. My brother did commit suicide. My mother threatened several times and did attempt twice. My step momster used to threaten frequently.

I have worked on this with my IC so it's not like I'm coming up with this on my own. If your stbx threatens suicide in front of you, sends to you in an email, etc, you need to treat it like it's the real deal whether or not you think it's a threat. Because in my own personal experience you don't know for sure. You can't know for sure. it's not your place to know for sure. So you remove yourself from the situation and call 911 immediately.

If she's truly is suicidal, she will get the help she needs right away. If she's using it as a manipulation tactic, let the proper authorities figure it out. You are to close to the situation and not a professional so it's not your place to figure it out. Even if she starts to back down and says she doesn't mean it, you still can't really tell because you are not a professional and you follow through on that 911 call. Serious or manipulation tactic, the professionals will get her the attention that she needs, or doesn't need.

If she's serious, she gets that help. If it's a manipulation tactic, it will be the last time she threatens with it. I have experienced both.

Good luck on that one toopol.

yop

"I remind myself of this. I am a survivor. I have taken all this world has dished out and am still here. So there is no reason to be afraid. Whatever happens, I will survive. So now onto living. It is time for me to thrive." - DrJekyll

posts: 4519   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2014   ·   location: Northeast US
id 7585086
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yearsofpain25 ( member #42012) posted at 12:36 AM on Saturday, June 18th, 2016

I might contact her parents (just to tell them that we've broken up and that she needs their support).

Honestly it may be a good idea to do this any way. You don't have to give them details, but you may want to let them know that she's going to need their support as you can no longer support her. That you're worried about her but it's not your place anymore and that you have to remove yourself from the situation.

yop

"I remind myself of this. I am a survivor. I have taken all this world has dished out and am still here. So there is no reason to be afraid. Whatever happens, I will survive. So now onto living. It is time for me to thrive." - DrJekyll

posts: 4519   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2014   ·   location: Northeast US
id 7585090
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nomistakeaboutit ( member #36857) posted at 2:30 AM on Saturday, June 18th, 2016

I don't believe of word of any of this. "Plot twist". Exactly.

Me: BH 65.........Her: WW 55
DD: 15.......DS: 12. (5 and 2 on DDay)
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................

posts: 1306   ·   registered: Sep. 18th, 2012   ·   location: U.S.A.
id 7585125
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atalosss ( member #47882) posted at 4:31 AM on Saturday, June 18th, 2016

I agree with YOP. Get the professionals involved but I think that this situation will be more likely when she's home and away from bellboy. Her world will come crashing down around her.

Fwh was suicidal 3 times and it was absolutely awful. I don't believe it was manipulation but the thought of being taken away by ambulance seemed to bring him to reality. Looking back now I realize how risky it was for me to have not followed through with those emergency calls. If it happens, don't take that risk.

I think your plan for leaving the apartment is a good one. Do you have supportive friends that you can stay with? What is your job situation like? Is there a chance she will show up there? How are your parents responding to all of this? One last question, do you think mc next week is really a good idea? You may want to wait on that.

"You can't ride two horses with one ass" Channel66

posts: 1098   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2015   ·   location: canada
id 7585173
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 toopol (original poster member #52895) posted at 4:55 AM on Saturday, June 18th, 2016

Just to be clear, the suicide threat question was a hypothetical. I doubt that'll happen. I just wanted to be prepared.

I think your plan for leaving the apartment is a good one. Do you have supportive friends that you can stay with? What is your job situation like? Is there a chance she will show up there?

I'm self-employed and work from home. The advantage there is that I can take time off really easily. The disadvantage is that I'll need to find a new apartment to set up shop pretty quickly. The plan now is to move my things to temporary storage, go spend a week visiting friends and family, then come back and find a new place. I have decent savings lying around so I might just do an extended-stay hotel while I'm apartment-hunting, if need be.

How are your parents responding to all of this?

They're the best. They told me that they understood why I didn't tell them earlier, and they gave me their sympathy and some solid advice. They were surprised to hear about the cheating (nobody imagined this girl could do this!) and believe that I dodged a bullet. And they made it clear that I could stay with them whenever and for as long as I needed. The best.

One last question, do you think mc next week is really a good idea? You may want to wait on that.

I'm seeing the therapist alone tomorrow, and I plan to make it clear that the Tuesday session is "breakup counseling" and nothing more. I want to try to get the logistical issues figured out, and I think the therapist could be a good mediator.

posts: 136   ·   registered: Apr. 23rd, 2016
id 7585183
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