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Ok...breath buddy...realize that the situation hasn't changed a single bit...despite what happened in MC. Unless I am mistaken...you would be "separated" still right now had you not put your foot down and moved back in? Truth is...she never wanted you back in the house...because she is still in the A. You moving in...and now confronting her is spoiling her "fun". She doesn't want space to work on things...she wants you out of her hair but needs you as "plan B".

WW gets upset and says it's not about the A, and I don't want a separation because of the A...WW says the reason for the separation is that our marriage has had problems and been broken for a long time, that's the reason, the A just happened but it's not about the A

Scripted cheater speak 101. I swear my WW said these exact words over 1000 times to me...even as she packed to move in w/ her boyfriend. It's 100% bullshit.

WW says "no I don't want a divorce."

Of course she doesn't...she wants you sitting in limbo as her back-up plan (plan b), financial support, and babysitter.. Also, 100% wholly unoriginal cheater behavior.

I have no idea now what I need to do??? I know meeting with the lawyer tomorrow will bring information and some advice but I need the SI love now more than ever. How do I handle this crazy B right now? What are my next steps?

I think this has all been swept under the rug long enough. I think she got pretty comfy w/ the status quo...and would be perfectly content to resume that. Problem is YOU ain't gonna live that way anymore.and she, very obviously, isn't anywhere near R material. It kinda simplifies things because either you accept limbo (separation) or you file for divorce.

WW said she didn't have time to get the fathers day card and forgot about our wedding anniversary date because we got married in the courthouse one month and then had the ceremony two months later.

LAME. No, she didn't forget. This was purposeful.

WW says "no I don't want a divorce." MC says why? WW says "because I love BS dearly, we've been through so much together and we really make a great team." WW says she wants the separation so we can work on the relationship and have some real time apart so that will hopefully help our marriage and bring us back together, or it will at least allow us to have a good relationship going forward.

Again, LAME. Many times they say they want a separation to keep you as a Plan B backup while having her freedom. You are no one's plan B!

WW says the reason for the separation is that our marriage has had problems and been broken for a long time, that's the reason,

Rewriting the marital history. Very common. If she had so many issues she could have TALKED to you about it.

WW says I think we can still do those things together since we are going to handle this like adults. Cake eating anyone? I mean Jesus in heaven man.

Yep. Cake eating. Doing things together "as a family" when separated/divorced sends mixed and confusing messages to the kids.

Meet with your attorney tommorow. Does your state have legal separation (some don't). Get temporary orders in place as far as custody and whatever joint finances you have. Keep going with your plan.

Well you basically got real life confirmation about what was being told to you here.

She is still cheating, or minimally thinking like a cheater, now she has outright confirmed it.

I would definitely include child care/custody arrangements for her while S when you meet w/ the L. You need to have down time, and you time, and she needs to know that it ain't gonna be all sunshine and rainbows. She is still going to have to be a mother to her kids.

You need to keep a VAR on you 100% of the time that you 2 are together. She's at the special kind crazy right now that she wouldn't hesitate to make a false DV claim against you right now.

You also need to ask the attorney if there are consequences or potential issues for blowing her A up to her family and her work.

Oh and that Vacation? Yah if you paid for it, I'd encourage you to change her ticket to a family member, or just give her the $$$ that would be her part if you can financially swing it. Let her know that if she isn't sure she wants you in real life, you are done pretending and playing happy family on vacation.

Howdy-

I'm late to your party and don't really have anything to add to what the others are saying. But I wanted you to know there's another one standing here with you wishing you health and safety and sanity. I remember those "hair on fire" days and anxiety and can't sleep/can't eat times. Keep putting one foot in front of the other. We're with you.

She still thinks she is running the show because up to this point she has been. It's time for consequences and you need to 'shock and awe" her.

You need to desperately shift gears and turn the tables on her and to do that means taking the power back. Tell her no more MC, you want a divorce ASAP and you guys need to talk about division of assets and whatever your lawyer tells you. Take control by taking R off the table (it never was an option anyway at this point).

The realization and logistics of handling a divorce is the biggest wake-up call you can give her. She claims she does want a D so pushing for one (the only thing you really have control over) should help get her out of the fog. The thing is you really got to want it and don't go "leaving the door" open route either, if she thinks you'll go soft and back down she'll call your bluff and you'll be right at square one.

If, and that's a big "IF" your M can be saved it will be from her convincing you not to get a divorce. Nothing short of that will work.

Pal, everytime you interact with her you get drama and beaten down and thrown lies and sand in your eyes. You pull, she pushes, you fall. You are already doing better due to the advice here, but it is time to go to war now. Expose to her parents and work. No more talking to her except kids and finances. Lawyer. This does not yet mean D or R but is about getting power back and you back. You know what she invested in R so far from her point of view?, tolerating you and seeing your face, sorry but you need to hear it, tough love. If she was a guy you would have known what to do, it is time, no more mr nice guy, stay calm but now it is time to act. strenghth and we are here for you

Have you started the 180 yet? I think you've handled this very well in a very short amount of time but at this point I'm not sure what else you guys really have to talk about. She knows how you feel and you know how she feels. She's clearly not remorseful and not in the right mindset for reconciliation. Hell she outright told you she wouldn't admit to contacting the AP.

Just a recommendation but I suggest you have her served with divorce papers. I wouldn't even mention divorce until she gets the papers. And until then only talk to her about the kids, finances, the house, and living arrangements. Preferably by text and email as much as possible just in case she says something that you can provide to your lawyer.

Reading through so many stories over the years, I notice that BS who have a higher Action:Talk ratio when dealing with infidelity tend to have much better outcomes for the BS whether their goal is reconciliation or divorce.

But I really think for the moment you've said all that you can possibly say. Eventually you're just going to be beating a dead horse which is not going to wake your wife up or benefit you in any way. She knows what you need, she just doesn't have any incentive to do it.

[This message edited by JS84 at 2:01 PM, June 27th (Tuesday)]

p.s.: as all say, by 180 you break the pull-push cycle, and by putting the burden/consequences of the affair on her (expose etc.) you break her, from the leftovers (if any) you can start building up again

I really do feel for you. I can tell the frustration in your words and sentences.

I really think you need to take control. You need to act, going forward, as if your wife is currently with the OM and your M is over. Whether she is or not it no longer matters because she is acting as if she is. Why would she behave that way if she isn't?

So meet with the lawyer. But I would take the following steps to take control of things.

- tell her " you are in love with another man. That breaks my heart terribly. But I will no longer be in a 3 way marriage. Everyone deserves to be happy. I will not deny you your happiness so I suggest you go be with him openly if that is what you need. Meanwhile I will be taking steps to get myself out of this situation so I can find happiness again too.

- tell her you are going to tell everyone about her affair tomorrow. She can tell them first if she wants to, you don't care, but you'll be contacting all her friends and family members to tell them what has happened even if she talks to them first. Exposure of the affair is important. Remember your marriage has been killed by her, you no longer care what she thinks. Did she play fair when she had the affair.

- work with the lawyer and file for D as soon as he can put it together.

- tell her you are committed to coparenting with her and you will try to be fair when it comes to D

- if you are not already, sign up for IC alone so you can work thru this pain

- make sure you eat and stay healthy

- tell her you are willing to work on the marriage with a remorseful wife. But that means she can never talk see hear the OM ever again. So until she feels she can do that, you will proceed with the D.

- if she ever wants to broach coming back, you require she come with a plan for her to become a safe partner for you. Until she has that you won't discuss it.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 4:12 PM, June 27th (Tuesday)]

Great points Sybo! Nutmeg and tush you all are right as well. Minnesota thanks for the support and well wishes. Dobby and babypuke and JS thanks all great points. I hear you all loud and clear. I wish I wasn't having this hanging on syndrome that seems to get in the way of making that tough decision to file for D.

Your arguments/points all make sense and do resonate with me more than I could fully explain. Talking with the lawyer tomorrow will also be helpful to paint a better picture and let me know all my options in the state of Maryland.

One question. The filing for D and moving forward on that front, using the 180, limiting all contact to kids finances house ect...it's ultimate effectiveness is that I really believe and buy into that D is best for me. And if I don't believe that in my heart and shows signs of any reluctance is could seriously diminish its effectiveness. So how do I help myself get to that acceptance and belief level so I don't foul it up and it does what it needs to do whether that leads to R at some point or ends in D? I clearly need to believe it and buy in fully to pull off the maneuver right? It can't be done wanting to force R, there can't be any hint if that. So if there's a part of my kind that has some hesitancy or reluctance how doin get rid of it to do this properly and with full conviction? Any suggestions?

I'm just being honest here everybody. I don't mean to frustrate you or piss you off because your advice and input has been world changing. But If I said yeah I'm 100% good with the D and let's go I'm done with this shit completely I'd be lying to you all. How did you all get there completely I guess. Ridding yourself of any doubts so to speak

Hope you didn't miss my other post as we seem to have crossed paths when posting yours.

To answer your question I would say, until you have a truly remorseful wife in front of you begging forgiveness you only have a path to D, 100%.

You currently no where near have a remorseful wife in front of you. If you did, you would know it.

- She would be inconsolable with the thought of how she was the cause of so much pain to the person she loves most in the world.

- she would be begging to know what she could do to make it right.

- for you she would want to let everyone know it was her that screwed up, not you.

- she would want to read books on how to support her BS

- she would be in IC as much as possible to figure out what went wrong with her and how she could finally tell her spouse who is the most important person in the world that thing you said happened to her years ago that affected her greatly

- she would feel your pain more than her own and put your happiness ahead of or at least equal to hers.

- she would give you an open timeline of everything that happened.

- she would realize what the OM really is and start being sick at the thought of him. She would start calling him names like POS for how he helped her destroy her life.

xXT, I could go on. Until you have that person in front of you begging you to take her back, you have no other path to happiness. I doubt that person will ever show up from what you have described. D is the only option. Believe it. Live it. And move forward using it.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 4:35 PM, June 27th (Tuesday)]

The way she has been handling things, I would just give her a week to convince you that D is the only solution. Keep doing what your doing. Meet with your lawyer, figure out where you need to be financially and with your kids. And keep watching what she is doing. I have no doubt, unless something major changes, she will have you convinced soon.

Mean while, take care of yourself and be there for your kids.

One question. The filing for D and moving forward on that front, using the 180, limiting all contact to kids finances house ect...it's ultimate effectiveness is that I really believe and buy into that D is best for me. And if I don't believe that in my heart and shows signs of any reluctance is could seriously diminish its effectiveness. So how do I help myself get to that acceptance and belief level so I don't foul it up and it does what it needs to do whether that leads to R at some point or ends in D? I clearly need to believe it and buy in fully to pull off the maneuver right? It can't be done wanting to force R, there can't be any hint if that. So if there's a part of my kind that has some hesitancy or reluctance how doin get rid of it to do this properly and with full conviction? Any suggestions?

Look at it from the other way around. The purpose of the 180 is to help you emotionally detach. It's not that the decision to D strengthens the 180, it's that the 180 strengthens detachment. Once you've stepped back emotionally, you'll be able to clarify your decision to either R or D.

If you go back to the beginning of your thread and read it as if it had been written by someone else, say a friend or family member, I think you'd see a clearer picture. Right now, you're bogged down in the idea that you weren't a perfect husband. But guess what?... nobody is perfect. You still didn't deserve for your WW to commit adultery for a year and half, lie to your face every day, blame you for her cheating, and then sit on the fence munching cake while your heart was breaking.

See the attorney. Detach with the 180. Tend to yourself and your two little boys. Be a great dad and your own best friend. Leave the WW to catch up as best she can if/when she ever pulls her head from her hindquarters. If she does, great. That'll mean lots of work to do, but she'll have to do it on your terms. And if she doesn't, you'll have lost a cheating, egocentric, weight from around your neck.

ETA: Just wanted to add from my personal experience...

I came out of the gate swinging for the fence on D after discovery. My fWH initially agreed, and I began implementing the 180 without even realizing I was doing it. It wasn't long before he wanted to talk and wanted a chance to prove himself... which of course he promptly used to continue contact with the last OW.

When I confronted him again, I gave him about 30 seconds to choose whether he wanted to be in the marriage or out. If I had dithered, I honestly don't think we'd still be married today.

The reason you get out of infidelity as quickly as possible is that the hurts keep piling up. When the pile is big enough, it's often the BS who wants out and takes R off the table. So, you minimize the damage by ending the adultery with alacrity, even if that means ending the marriage. The marriage is doomed anyway once that pile of hurt becomes insurmountable. When you look at it that way, what have you got to lose that's not already lost?

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 5:05 PM, June 27th (Tuesday)]

How I got there?, anger, self-respect, enough is enough, self-preservation, the realization that it was going from bad to worse and things were becoming unsafe for both of us in terms of DV (i.e., I started to hit her back). Yes, she also has/d psychological issues, and yes I feel as if I failed her and could have done things differently, but I had no experience and did not know what I was dealing with, I got her into IC.

This is why I urge you to stay calm whatever happens and to not dehumanize her, and why you should focus on you and do 180, you cannot reason with crazy because you are not crazy, but the more you interact with her in her current condition the more crazy you will become.

As for the D, you don't say you are okay with it, you say it is your decision, you can sign the papers and not file, you can D and try again after that, but be warned, she also may just go along with it and give up. You can also do the D as a last resort, and start with icecold 180/silent treatment and exposure. I myself ended the relationship and then she was gone, not my wish but at least no more stress and drama for me also.

Hang in there, you are already doing things better than I did, proud of you, strength!

It seems as though your WW is trying to end the marriage - she's just going slow because she doesn't want to burn any bridges until she's sure she has a soft place to land. I wouldn't be surprised if she's pleasantly surprised when you tell her about the talk with your lawyer about the divorce. At least I hope, for your sake, that I'm reading this correctly. You need a little push right now to follow through on what you know to be the best path for you. Viewing the 180 as helping you detach from WW and begin to heal is, in my opinion, the right thing to do. Anything "softer" is just faking it and WW will sense that you are bluffing.

I know what it's like to waffle between wanting to do anything to reconcile yet knowing that divorce is better for both of you. You need to make up your mind and tough your way through the fear & uncertainty and believe that the divorce will set you free.

You do it one interaction at a time. Over time, and as you get stronger and your resolve grows and you detach more it will get easier.

Some things to be aware of. Your WW will most likely notice the 180 and could start baiting and becoming argumentatiev as she realizes she is no longer driving the bus. Stay strong. Don't take the bait.

When she tries to provoke you, some good replies are "I see", "noted", "I'm sorry you feel that way", "that doesn't work for me", and the complete sentence that is "no".

But If I said yeah I'm 100% good with the D and let's go I'm done with this shit completely I'd be lying to you all. How did you all get there completely I guess. Ridding yourself of any doubts so to speak

It seems you aren't 100% with D and hope she has a change of heart, but it doesn't look like that now so you have no choice but to endure a separation or decide your going to get out of infidelity. That means filing for divorce to take back control and let her know your serious, either we talk honestly or we go our separate ways.

Based on her actions, I think she's still talking to the other man. This is often the case here. If you pursue divorce she will either move (emotionally) closer to him or panic that she's losing her plan B (you). By moving closer to him I mean that she will try to shore up her future with him so she is assured of not being alone. He will either be all in or, as many do, dump her because all he wanted was a fling.

You, on the other hand hope that she will see the error of her ways when the shock of divorce hits her and is remorseful about her affair. Nothing is guaranteed here, but is seems to be the only hope you have.

As a side note, you don't say whether she is a stubborn person or much about her ego. For some spouses the betrayal goes on for so long with so much hurt to both that they can't reconcile. That is one of the primary reasons for ending the affair and contact as soon as possible.

Great great posts and advice everyone! Thank you all a million times 🙏. I'm going to read over all of your responses again this evening because as I just read them I kind of felt a little sense of calm and serenity wash over me. I know that sounds weird but that's the best way I can describe it.

I've stated previously that the 180 seemed like a good way to go. I agreed with the 180 but didn't implement properly initially. I began that try to do it properly today though, based on the recent developments and all your advice, and kind of saw something interesting

When WW text me today and asked me "are you picking up Jerry today?" Meaning picking my 6yr up from camp. I didn't reply right away as I usually would. I put the phone down and waited. Went about my business. Then when I thought about it again some time later I picked up the phone and replied "yes." That's it. Normally I way try to engage her in conversation via txt, ask how her day was ect. Nope I'm 180'ing I thought. Then after a while I got a txt back "ok." No other response from me. Went about my business.

At around 730 my WW pulled up to the house. I had no idea she was coming. She walked past me in the garage and said "hello." I replied "hello." N that's it. In the past I would come in behind her into the house. Maybe even following behind her not to snoop but seeking some interaction. Not this time though I'm 180'ing.

I did come back once I was done in the garage. WW was in the bedroom I guess packing clothes for the evening I dunno cuz I didn't go up there. I didn't really care I just picked up the book for my 23 month old son and began reading him his bedtime story downstairs with my 6yr old son as well. We laughed and enjoyed our story time. Not trying to rub it in for WW or anything I was just honestly enjoying that time n was trying to to care or be concerned with what she was doing.

WW came down and asked me what time do you have to get to work tomorrow? do you need me here in the morning to watch AJ (23 month old) before the nanny gets here. I said "yes" I'll probably need you here at 8. The end nothing else.

WW began to go outside to smoke a cig in the garage. I didn't follow behind but asked "did you want to spend time with AJ before I put him to sleep?" She said no that's ok. Now I know strayed from the 180 there but I'm trying. I didn't need to do that and recognize it after the fact. How cold is that shit though. She doesn't wanna do that w her son. Crazy

Took AJ to brush his teeth. Before I put him in bed and said our prayers I took him down to WW and said give mommy kisses. She did and I put him to bed. I know, not a perfect 180 move there. I just wanted my son to say goodnight to his mom though.

Once the youngest was asleep my 6?yr old wanted to play catch outside. I had promised him earlier. We went outside grabbed the gloves n played catch where we always do next to the house. My WW sat in there smokingbher cigarette. Didn't say shit to her just enjoyed a catch with my son.

WW finished her cig and walked down the driveway and kinda just stood where I was standing. She said "so you need me hear at 8 to watch AJ?" I said "yes" (why was she asking this again) I said if it's a problem just let me know and I'll call the nanny and ask her to come earlier. WW said ok. I guess I'm going to leave. I said ok.

WW then gets into the car and leaves without saying goodnight or hugging or kissing our 6 yr old. She just rolls out. How F'd up is that.

I guess what I'm driving at is that she seemed to be acting a little strange when she stopped by tonight. I mean why even stop by? Why not pack your clothes that you need in the morning and then you don't have to stop by the house ya know? She kinda seemed like she was moping and sad. Definitely not herself. I'm not saying anything "good" is happening or that any of this means jack shit. But it was just an observation I made about the interaction. I guess it looks like she's feeling it a little bit. What "it" is I dunno, but that's not my problem. She's gonna feel what she feels and I need to keep it moving. I didn't perfect 180 I guess but it's a good start I think. Felt more like I was in control of my emotions and she didn't have some voo doo power over me. I was focused more on me, what the kids were doing, and just living life period.

Good. Just remember the 180 is not to get your wife back, get her interested in you, psych her out, etc. It's for your benefit alone. Sounds like you have the right idea about what to do.