SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My wife essentially showed no remorse and said she was a grown woman and shouLd be able to do as she pleases...

DeepFeeler, see what she left out of that statement? She left it out but you can put it in and finish the statement: 'I am a grown woman, should be able to do as I please, no matter the consequences' Because that is what she is saying.

Talking with her does not work.

Trying to explain your feelings about what she is doing just ends in arguments.

She is correct that she is a grown woman and she will do what she wants. What she wants is just you hanging around until she can get all worked up on-line and she is ready for some release.

She has blown through every boundary and promise she ever made to you with no remorse.

She even defends telling him that she loves him! Asks you what is wrong with phone sex with him! States that he only gets to ejaculate with her while you get RL sex! Incredible.

Why are you still with this woman? YOU GET ZERO RESPECT FROM HER. She is obviously totally selfish with regard for anyone else.

If my wife told another man she loved him, she would be out the door so fast it would make her head spin.

Have the papers served and get out as fast as you can.

This:

Have the papers served and get out as fast as you can

She is continuing her affair, she is not remorseful, she neither respects you nor cares about your well being.

Of course it is really hard but you have no choice. The only way out of infidelity is to divorce her. If she comes out of the fog at some point in time then review your options but until then continue with the 180 and serve divorce papers.

p.s. The MC seems out of their depth.

[This message edited by SorrowfulMoon at 6:08 PM, May 27th (Sunday)]

I was hoping you received better results from the session with the MC. Your feedback in your post validates why you received the warning not to go to MC or have your narrative prepared as M1965 and so many other posters suggested. Unfortunately, the MC has now reinforced your wife's behavior and the emotional affair by omitting the need to cease her online activities. Have you given thought to the following issues:

1) Does the MC know the extent of your wife's online activities and emotional affair?

2) What was all the talk about brain chemistry for. Was the MC talking about what goes on in an emotional affair and addiction?

3) Did the MC even acknowledge the existence of emotional affairs or state to your wife that she was in one?

4) Did the MC have a problem with her phone sex and wayward activities in the SL game.

5) Does the MC have the skills and qualifications to assist you in your journey out of infidelity?

6) Do you think that if the MC had told her to stop she would have done so. Would she be able to actually stop on her own?

7) Per you, your wife, and now the MC what is the boundaries?

*Is infidelity now defined as your wife boarding a plane to Belgium and engaging in penis in vagina sex with her lover.

*Phone guarding, snap chat, and the hidden secrets such as sharing nudes (not confirmed but likely) fantasy sex, and I love yous are okay?

*Providing the visual and/or auditory stimulation for another individual to masterbate to and loving them while they are at it is acceptable in a monogamous relationship?

8) Is the way your wife makes male friends okay with you and the MC? Providing phone sex etc. to make male friends is wayward behavior.

***Really your and your wife's requirements are all that matters. The MC has no bearing.

Your wife has a tremendous amount of investment in her addiction and emotional affair. Perhaps the MC asked the wrong questions or your wife was able to rug sweep her activities. Her justifications are answers to the wrong questions. When treating infidelity, the question isn’t "why it is okay," but rather, "why isn’t it okay? How are my actions in the best interest of my spouse and my family?"

Your wife has told you she is not going to stop the wayward behavior. Your intervention or whatever you term it with the MC had less than desirable results. You have now become the problem. You are attempting to deny her the "fix." You have received a tremendous amount of information regarding emotional affairs and addiction. You have two questions to address:

1. Will you or will you not share your wife with other men in the game or in online emotional affairs?

2. How are you going to address her emotional affair?

You are wallowing my friend and the longer you do the more emboldened your enabling behavior makes her.

You were warned about jumping into MC in an ongoing affair but did it anyway. It sounds like you're going back for another dose.

You are in essence sealing your fate with talk instead of actions.

You are keeping yourself bound in infidelity limbo because of your inability to make a decision not to. Your path is going to be longer and more painfull for it.

Now it's not just the situation she's put you in but your inability to act which is on you.

You can order and read all the books you want and talk until you're blue in the face and it will get you more of what you've gotten.

Better wake up to your new reality.

Your wife is just a very typical cheater. Nothing special at all.

[This message edited by Marz at 7:24 PM, May 27th (Sunday)]

How ya doing Deep?

Why on earth would you sit around while she is doing that crap with OM? Go for a run, go to the gym, hell go sit in your car at the park. The point is don’t sit around and expose yourself to that BS.

This is just a mess and I can't help feel stupid since there has been no physical intimacy and he is so far away. Even the counselor brought this up and said it was unlikely.

Look if I was into a woman I'd have no trouble jumping on a plane to go fool around for a couple of days.

What does this have to do with her already saying "F-U" to you and your marriage and the betrayals, broken trust, and disrespect she has shown. She is already cheating. She has contempt for you and the M. What in the world does it matter that there has been no physical intimacy. Your suggesting that when the day comes that he does come to meet her, then you will really be mad. She is toxic. How long will you drink the poison and for what purpose.

The longer you endure and delay the deeper into her gaslighing and rationalization you will get.

She has tried to be remorseful but sees this all as no big deal because she's "not going to run off with him", but I am crushed and just cannot make her understand this has wrecked me. Also remorse for her is saying sorry a time or two and moving on as nothing happened.

I can't trust her at all right now and really want too, I also want to believe she wants to fix this but actions speaking louder than words an all...

She did try most of the day Monday but, the rest of the weekend was a shit show in that regard.

I'm trying not to pain shop but this is still giving me severe anxiety. I woke up at about three and was in a panic , realizing I woke in the midst of an anxiety attack.

I am physically ill with this mess and questioning my sanity.. Is it really no big deal and I am making mountains from molehills? (I am not).

She's stated she wants to make this work, but they still snapchat, she still runs to him in the game if he's on, despite the mess and drama it's causing me. Yes, I know there's no regard for me, the fantasy is prioritized higher and that is ridiculously confusing and hurtful.

She still guards her phone obsessively, hides it when she goes to bed, takes it when she goes to the bathroom etc.. I'm neither blind nor stupid. I don't even want to know what she's hiding at this point because it could be the death blow that ends me.

I thought I heard her on their last night in the bathroom on her phone but when I made a light joke "omg you take it to the bathroom w you, gross. were you talking while.." She told me I was hearing things and that sounds like psychosis..

How does someone fall for someone half a world away and crap on a 15yr marriage for it. In my mind it makes zero sense. Why can't she just walk away? Up until recently she stated it meant nothing, now she admits she likes him a lot despite having stated she loved him, just not the want to have a family and run off kind of love.

Detaching has left me numb and probably protected my heart a little by now but at this point I don't know if I can ever get back to the love I felt just a few weeks ago, ever, with anyone and the critical pillar of trust is not only eroded but completely gone.

I just cannot make any sense of this at all I'm sticking to my 180 plan but at this point it's only appearances because my heart is utterly broken, my soul feels like it's bleeding out, my nerves are frayed and I am angry she has been so feeble minded as to have created this mess not only for me but our family.

Most importantly why do I still love her so madly after all of this. Why can't I just turn it off like she has seemingly done to me?

Sorry a lot of this is rambling and just getting it out...

Well a person can complain until he's blue in the face that his boat is leaking cause there is a hole in it.

The only two ways he can keep his boat afloat is to fix the hole by plugging it off & fixing it permanently or he can just keep bailing water out to keep it afloat and hope the hole doesn't get a lot bigger.

Sending strength my man

Your wife has an addiction. Just like drugs or alcohol or food - her addiction is this Affair.

I was in your position in dealing by with my H’s A. He became unglued. Literally. He said stuff to me that was irrational. Hints like ”you would like her if you met her” type of crap.

Another one was we should all be friends!

Unfortunately you are no longer dealing with the wife you married. Or the wife you knew.

She no longer cares about anyone or anything but herself .

Your only option is to protect yourself. Get yourself out of this drama and craziness. You see the cheaters count on their spouse remaining in the M. They expect the status quo.

My H expected me to wait around for him to decide what he was going to do. I was willing to be supportive and understanding. Trying to help him - and it did not work!

On DDay2 when he demanded a D (for the second or third or millionth time - I lost count) I changed my strategy. My “I don’t give a sh$t meter” maxed out.

My plan B was executed in 3 sentences. And in a calm rational manner it went like this l: “I am divorcing you. Kids and I get the house until school is over. I’m sorry I can no longer do this any longer..

And at that moment the A was over and he was begging me to take him back. I did the hard 180.

And to this day I went from being a doormat and easy going person in my M to restoring my power and self esteem.

Face the fact your wife is not going to change. She will not give up the A. She will continue to disrespect you.

hat are you going to do about it?

My suggestion is to separate from her - first and foremost. That will get you away from having to watch your W cheat.

Stop financially supporting her. That is the second phase of your plan.

And third is to get your own counselor to support you. Someone who understands infidelity - because phone sex and online A are cheating. It is emotionally abusive to you - what yiur wife is doing.

Best of luck. You can move forward but you need to make the hard choices. I did the “pick me” dance for too many months. It was never going to work.

Trust me!

[This message edited by The1stWife at 5:21 AM, May 29th (Tuesday)]

DF

Your WW’s happy life is now the virtual one. She is addicted to Second Life and the love she has found there and her real life with you is only, in her mind, keeping her from living her happy virtual one.

She rushes thru real life responsibilities in order to get her next Second Life session.

The only happy result for you would be for her to get addiction therapy and never play online games if any kind ever again. Like any addict she will resist anything that would eliminate her drug forever as she is so very attached to it.

But you will never have a real relationship with her again, a true and loving relationship where you are her primary love, until the game, and her virtual lover within it, are gone forever.

Unfortunately she won’t get there until she hits rock bottom and loses everything in her real life. There is no guarantee she will get there and then ask for help for her addiction in time to keep you and her family together.

So the next step, whether it helps her come out of this fog, or helps you to move on without her is to have her served with D papers.

If I remember correctly they may be scheduled to be served the end of this week. Keep that schedule.

At that point I suggest full 180. No talking to her about anything. And that includes no more MC!

This week find yourself an IC to work with. One that deals with infidelity and start working with them. Work on yourself. Let go of the outcome with your WW. You can’t control her actions, how she will react, or if she will try and save what she is losing.

Expose what she has done to any family or close friends that don’t know. “My wife is addicted to a virtual life game and has fallen in love with someone on there. I am worried about her but can’t get her to see how it is ending our marriage. I have filed for divorce as I have been trying for months to get her back to reality unsuccessfully. We both can use your support as we go thru this trying time. “

And then focus on you my friend. Focus on your healing.

You have lost a lot. You have had much pain inflicted on you by her. You need to save yourself. Only she can save herself right now. If she starts to come out of it and asks for help you can guide her into an addiction program.

But until she completes it successfully and starts treating you as her one and only true love, do not treat her anymore as the wife you once had. Because she is no longer that person.

Go this week and find a good IC for you and finalize the serving of the papers. These are steps forward. I promise.

DeepFeeler,

Based on what you have posted about her:

1. Remorse? No.

2. Regret? No.

3. Gaslighting you? Yes.

4. Still in infidelity? Yes.

All of her actions support these conclusions.

You suffer all of the consequences of her infidelity.

Her only consequence is the inconvenience of having to guard her phone and lock herself in the bathroom to carry on her A.

Sharkman puts its simply and clearly.

Your response needs to be

‘You are free to do all those things, just not as my wife’

This is indeed the bottom line, anything short of this is wasting your time, and just gonna make you crazy.

Quit trying to make it more complicated than it is. It's really that simple.

You seem to being bending over backwards to make excuses for her actions when there are none.

Things WILL NOT CHANGE until you hand her D papers.

"How does someone fall for someone half a world away and crap on a 15yr marriage for it."

It happens all the time. Fantasy is more enticing than reality. Also, he's a younger guy and like an older man being hit on by a young woman, she's feeling like she's still hot.

"Why can't she just walk away?"

She's truly in love with the fantasy of being with that guy. It's very difficult to overcome that.

"I don't know if I can ever get back to the love I felt just a few weeks ago, ever, with anyone and the critical pillar of trust is not only eroded but completely gone."

Your way of seeing her and every relationship from here on is changed. Like has happened to all of us, your former rose-colored-glasses have been crushed.

"I just cannot make any sense of this at all..."

Don't try. It's the difference between living in reality and living in fantasy. D papers will bring some reality back into her psyche. The question is, will it be enough?

"Most importantly why do I still love her so madly after all of this. Why can't I just turn it off like she has seemingly done to me?"

Her love faded a long time ago. Every time she 'hooked up' electronically and via phone with the various guys, her love for you faded a little. She's had many online 'affairs' and now she's at the point that she has less love for you than some stranger across the globe. This has been a long time coming. You're just noticing because she's now so far away.

[This message edited by Dismayed2012 at 9:55 AM, May 29th (Tuesday)]

Having her served at work with divorce papers is the ONLY thing that might wake her up from her fantasy.

You have to move forward as if your sole goal is to end the marriage. Consider the marriage over already. Free your mind and your ass will follow.

Deep, my point is not that she’s not remorseful but that she does not think she has done anything wrong (Sorry for all the negatives). She has sex with you and grabs her phone and has phone sex with him. And if this isn’t bad enough she freely admits to doing this with many others. WTF, done nothing wrong!?!

You’ve got to quit trying to save you’re marriage and move yourself out of infidelity. She will come with you, or not, you cannot control that. Instead of the upcoming MC, cancel it and go to an IC, as earlier advised.

No contact, except kids and finances. Stop all these interactions you are having. You’ve stated several times you were 180ing or detaching and the next day come in here and tell of a conversation you two had. All you are doing is causing more pain. No contact means no contact.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

Your wife controls the narrative in your relationship. You are paralyzed and remain in infidelity. You have ignored the many responses on how to get out of infidelity. You have chosen to disregard the advice that was offered. Your attempts have proven less than satisfactory. You are now suffering health effects. Your actions or lack thereof have emboldened your wife. She is now more involved with the emotional affair (EA) and online activities leaving you to watch and hear on the sideline. She has shown you what she wants and is getting it. She does not seem to care what her actions are doing to you and your family based upon your posts.

She has tried to be remorseful but sees this all as no big deal because she's "not going to run off with him"

This is incorrect. You are projecting your hopes onto her. You cannot have remorse when you see something as "no big deal."

Many or most EAs undergo a progression. Do you think she will have intercourse if he ever decides to travel to her. What about if she is involved with another man closer in proximity. Her boundaries appear relative to fit her needs.

...I am crushed and just cannot make her understand this has wrecked me.

I am not aware of someone in an EA that has stopped because of the impact the EA has had on the BS. She is not thinking about you when she is engaged in verbal/visual sexual stimulation while the OM is masterbating recieving I love you(s). You are impeding her emotional affair. She has had no consequences. She resents you attempting to take her "fix" away. You need to assume responsibility for your own health and healing.

Also remorse for her is saying sorry a time or two and moving on as nothing happened.

This is not remorse. It is rug sweeping that you continue to allow.

I can't trust her at all right now and really want too, I also want to believe she wants to fix this but actions speaking louder than words an all...

Her actions indicate that she is going to keep you in real life for stability and have online EAs that are physical in nature -- just not in physical proximity with each other at this point.

She did try most of the day Monday but, the rest of the weekend was a shit show in that regard.

She is still in the EA. You are projecting your desired response from her and denying that she remains addicted and in an emotional affair. She needs outside help (not MC) in order to stop. Things will not improve until she faces consequences. She needs IC from a therapist qualified to deal with infidelity and addiction. She likely will need medical help to deal with the withdrawal. Eventually she will engage in worse behavior as M1965 and others pointed out. It seems to be getting progressivly worse based on your posts.

You need IC and medical help to deal with the EA and harm it has caused to you.

I'm trying not to pain shop but this is still giving me severe anxiety. I woke up at about three and was in a panic, realizing I woke in the midst of an anxiety attack.

This is not pain shopping. You experienced anxiety and a trigger. This is a consequence that you now have because of your wive's infidelity and your failure to act.

I am physically ill with this mess and questioning my sanity..

You are feeling the emotional damage and health effects from living in infidelity.

You require outside help... IC and medical treatment.

Living in infidelity makes one question their sanity. It is difficult for you to accept her behavior that is against your core beliefs and values regarding marriage. You are on the "crazy train" or emotional roller coaster. This is another consequence for you of her infidelity.

Is it really no big deal and I am making mountains from molehills? (I am not).

You are buying into your wives rationalization of her infidelity if you believe this. Your wife is having sex with another individual online that is physical. If another man masturbating while receiving verbal/visual stimulation by your wife is not a problem for you and you can accept this behavior then it is a molehill. If you can accept your wife telling other men that she loves them in a type of Love typically reserved for a monogamous relationship or marriage then it is a molehill.

The emotional and health effects you're having indicate that this is a big deal and a mountain. You have stated that you do not accept this behavior. The problem is that even though you do not desire or want your wife to be sexually stimulating other men and to be in an EA you have not acted to stop it. Without action, desire and want are useless. In my opinion it will continue to get worse as M1965 and others have suggested. It may already be worse we do not know. This is bad enough. I see no reason to "rank" cheating.

She's stated she wants to make this work, but they still snapchat, she still runs to him in the game if he's on, despite the mess and drama it's causing me. Yes, I know there's no regard for me, the fantasy is prioritized higher and that is ridiculously confusing and hurtful.

She has told you that she is not going to stop. She has chosen the EA and addiction. This is her way of pacifying you to accept her betrayal and maintain what she wants. What would her response be to these questions:

* Why isn’t my EA, online sexual activities,stimulation of other men to orgasm, and telling others I love you okay?

* How are my actions involving sexting, phone or online sex, stimulating other men to the point of orgasm, and time spent in an EA, and giving my love to others in the best interest of my spouse and my family?

* How is my behavior not abusive?

* If what I am doing is okay why must it be done in secrecy?

What is your response to the questions? This will provide each of you insight into the problem if compared side by side if the questions are answered honestly.

Until she can understand what she is doing as wrong and your persepctive, she will feel wrongly accused. She will continue to refuse to end the relationship on the grounds of, “I’m doing nothing wrong.” This is why she is defensive, shifts the blame, rewrites history of the marriage, and will do anything she can to justify her actions to herself and others. This will only increase the risk of deceiving herself more and more, ultimately damaging herself and you emotionally, mentally and physically with far ranging consequences.

She must get help for the addiction and EA to get out of infidelity. Until she gets help and is remorseful, you need to act to get out of infidelity.

I suggest that you not enable her betrayal if the internet and phone is in your name.

It is time for you to turn off the phone and router if you are enabling the EA and online infidelity. She may want the divorce then. Wayward behavior is bizarre. These devices are not the problem. She will find another way to cheat. She is in an EA and addicted. You need to act. She needs IC from a therapist qualified to deal with infidelity and addiction.

She is refusing to get help and stop the affair. Your have to decide will you continue to share your wife. It is time for you to act.

She still guards her phone obsessively, hides it when she goes to bed, takes it when she goes to the bathroom etc.. I'm neither blind nor stupid. I don't even want to know what she's hiding at this point because it could be the death blow that ends me.

You have experienced a lot of deathblows lately. You will survive if you desire to. The boundaries you establish keep getting shattered by your wife. Your words are meaningless to her. Action is required on your part to get out of infidelity. If the phone is in your name turn it off. Stop enabling her affair. What consequences has she faced or will you impose for her cheating. Do you wish to maintain the status quo?

She is refusing to get help and stop the affair. Your have to decide will you continue to share your wife or divorce. She may call your bluff when she is served with the papers based upon her earlier response. Have you prepared yourself for this response by her?

I thought I heard her on their last night in the bathroom on her phone but when I made a light joke "omg you take it to the bathroom w you, gross. were you talking while.." She told me I was hearing things and that sounds like psychosis..

This is gas-lighting by her. She may be sending him videos or pictures. Perhaps she is telling him she loves him. She may be masturbating with him. Maybe she is arranging a meet up. Who knows? If she were not cheating, she would not need the privacy of the bathroom to do it.

How does someone fall for someone half a world away and crap on a 15yr marriage for it. In my mind it makes zero sense. Why can't she just walk away? Up until recently she stated it meant nothing, now she admits she likes him a lot despite having stated she loved him, just not the want to have a family and run off kind of love.

It is easy to have an EA with the means and electronic devices available today.

No one wants to be seen as an infidel, nor do most people just set out to cheat. In fact, if she actually saw what she were doing as “really wrong,” then she would have far more difficulty continuing the behavior. The solution for her then is viewing inappropriate relationships in such a way that makes it okay with her. She does this by determining in her mind what constitutes infidelity or an affair. Just about anything you’re not doing can serve the purpose of defending why the relationship is legitimate and healthy. If she is not talking about leaving you, then it’s okay. If she only wants to stay online, then it’s okay. If I’m only trying to help them achieve orgasm online, then it’s okay. If it’s not sexual involving penetration by him, then it’s okay. If we’re not expressing feelings for each other with him inside me, then it’s okay. If I am making a male friend, then it’s okay. Once in a physical affair involving proximity similar mental gymnastics and rationalization occurs. There’s no limit to the ways cheaters can rationalize their infidelity. You may even hear we are soulmates. Her affair and response is common among wayward spouses. There is nothing unique to her cheating. Once she recognizes her behavior as wrong she will engage in cognitive dissonance to maintain the cheating.

Detaching has left me numb and probably protected my heart a little by now but at this point I don't know if I can ever get back to the love I felt just a few weeks ago, ever, with anyone and the critical pillar of trust is not only eroded but completely gone.

I do not think detaching has left you numb. Based on your post how are you detaching? You seem to be performing the "pick me dance." I think it is your failure to act that is causing you the pain.

Some regain the love for their spouse after infidelity and others do not. Much depends upon the response of the wayward spouse during reconciliation unless the cheating is a deal breaker. You have a long way to go before you have to worry about this issue in my humble opinion. The affair has not ended so your concerns about reconciliation are premature. She has told you she will continue her actions.

Broken trust is a consequence of her infidelity. Why should you trust her? She has told you that she will remain in the EA and do as she pleases online... providing other men sexual stimualtion to orgasm.

I just cannot make any sense of this at all I'm sticking to my 180 plan but at this point it's only appearances because my heart is utterly broken, my soul feels like it's bleeding out, my nerves are frayed and I am angry she has been so feeble minded as to have created this mess not only for me but our family

.

You have not completed 24 hours of the 180. Utilize the hard approach to gain the distance you require so that you will act and stop the EA and online activities. Presently you are in limbo.

You need to make the decision whether you are going to share your wife with other men. Action(s) will be easier once this decision is made.

Your heart is broken because of your wife's infidelity and cheating. You will feel this way for some time. It does get better once out of infidelity...once you have made the decision to not share your wife and act accordingly. They say it takes 3 to 5 years to heal on this site from infidelity. I do not know. I am not there yet.

Most importantly why do I still love her so madly after all of this. Why can't I just turn it off like she has seemingly done to me?

Love is not like water running out of a spicket such that it can be turned off. Your heart has to catch up with your brain. You must first make the decision whether you are willing to continue to share your wife. Then you must act to stop the EA and online activities. If you implement the 180 you will get the space you need to detach. Presently, you are paralyzed and unable to act and this has emboldened your wife and her cheating.

Sorry a lot of this is rambling and just getting it out...

If you are okay with sharing your wife you need to work on strategies for living in infidelity.

If you decide you will not share your wife with other men, you need to recognize that desire and want are not enough. You need to act to stop the infidelity.

Brother, only one thing will possibly work in waking her up...HAVE HER SERVED ASAFP, and tell her she has until it's final to convince you to stop it from going thru.

If that doesn't shock her into reality, nothing will and she truly is a lost cause.

Livingwithpain put it as bluntly as possible, "Free your mind and your ass will follow."

You know exactly what to do to get out of infidelity (whether it leads to R or D), but won't.

Do you want help in extricating yourself from infidelity, or are you seeking a chorus of posters to hold your hand while you pain shop?

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 3:24 PM, May 29th (Tuesday)]