SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

OK. I don't read JFO very often anymore as I am a year post-D, but your post stood out for me. I am in my 50's and starting my new life after 2 XWH's. None of this is easy and it hurts like hell to realize that you can't fix it no matter what you do. You can't unknow what you already know about your WW.

As time goes on you will start to realize a lot of what you had blinders on before and believed the lies you were being told because you loved her. Just like with the underwear episode, you never even questioned it much at the time or you would have realized that they come in packs usually (if that's the way she normally bought them)but you had your blinders on. Most BS's are guilty of this because it never crossed our minds that we couldn't trust them, especially with someone else. Every time you have one of these moments write it down and when you are feeling weak go back and read what you wrote. Then ask yourself if this is truly the way you want to live the rest of your life.

Your wife does sound like she has a lot of the BPD symptoms. I have a friend that is much like her. Everything needs to revolve around her. She gets mad at people for trivial things that really have nothing to do with her. You don't hear from her unless she needs you for something and then sugar melts in her mouth. She lies about things that she has no reason to lie about. She thinks everyone is out to get her or to make her life miserable. She goes through manic stages where she spends lots of money, not thinking about the future. She then goes through a severe depressive state. It is crazy making and I have had to slowly put our friendship on the back burner and no longer involve myself in her life.

It sounds like you are working toward acceptance and that is good. You can't fix her and you can't change her. I know I tried R with both of my XWH's and unfortunately neither could ever step up to the plate and do what they needed to do to fix themselves. It sounds like your WW has stepped out of the marriage. The last thing you need to do at this point is to let her hoover you back into her dysfunctional world. Once the biker dumps her, she will come back wanting to R. Do not even attempt it until she shows you through her actions (not words) that she can be a safe partner. Otherwise you need to proceed with the attorney and give her a dose of reality. (((HUGS)))

Thanks, nekonamida, Jduff, jd timeless and Trustgone. I'm grateful that you spent the time considering me and my situation.

My wife is not as bad as the individual Trustgone describes. She doesn't go into depressive phases, for example. Maybe if she did, she'd sympathize more with my depressive times, and our son's.

I complain about her now, but most of the time we've done well together. There's a lot to admire about her, actually. I'm losing a lot.

Not enough to make me still think about reconcilliation, however. Not after what I've been through.

I don't believe there's such a thing as a perfect, happy couple. So, even with her flaws (and considering my own), I've preferred - up til now - to hang in there with her.

Hello out there. I haven't added anything here becasue there have been no big changes.

I see a lawyer this coming Thursday,, which will move things forward. The phone discussion with the lawyer was encouraging. This is acutallly a "fault" divorce state, and I could get my wife on grounds of adultery and desertion. She, the lawyer, doesn't really want to go there, but it gives me good leverage, she says.

She characterized my wife's actions with the joint checking account (taking out more than half the monthly pension payment for her own expenses) as "misbehavior." The lawyer will be writing a letter to the wife's lawyer to that effect.

I'm wondering if I should now "graduate" to one of the other forums instead of adding this this thread.

Here's a question for the group. How do you deal with friends who make it clear they are staying neutral and "we are here for both of you?"

I'm a little bit sore that apparently none of our friends has taken her to task. My inclination is to tell friends who give me the "neutral" line that it's up to them, but it's up to me to only stay friends with those who can tell the difference between right and wrong.

It is truly up to you which of your friends you want to keep or dump..

Are you talking about dumping mutual friends who enabled her affair? Because, Hell yeah, those friends should be dumped..

Or are you talking about dumping mutual friends who want to stay neutral because they love you both and have had no knowledge of your marriage issues?

For me, dealing with the second group of friends would involve some soul searching.....If I kept these mutual friends in my life (which would likely happen), I would interact with them on a superficial level, not discussing any issues related to my marriage..

I do empathize with these friends not wanting to take sides...We get to pick and choose who we want to confide in..By the same token, our friends get to decide how involved they want to be in our private lives, how close they want to be to us..

If I were asked to choose between two friends I dearly love, I doubt that I could choose..Instead I would kindly explain that it is impossible for me to choose one friend over the other...When all is said and done, I would probably distance myself from both friends and the situation..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 8:37 AM, October 23rd (Sunday)]

If it were me I would keep the ones who are loyal to me and ditch (go 180) the "mutuals" who are on the fence no matter their reasons. At this point in your situation I think you should simplify your life and clear your plate of the unecessities as much as possible, and this include sources in your life that do not contribute to your healing. They just take up space. You need to add more support anyway so make room! Hey, also get out there and meet new people! Go to a comedy club. Go out of your way to laugh and be happy. You would be amazed at how much this helps in detachment and healing.

As for your pace, once you have an attorney involved you are now on the D process calendar, which is basically being on auto pilot. I can understand one of the reasons your attorney doesn't want to push the adultery angle is because it is likely difficult to prove. But, if it were me I would have it in the petition language because it is the one official court document that runs counter to all of your STBXW's marital rewrite and blameshifting, along with whatever leverage it may give you. Frankly, I think your WW could a rat's ass about being called out in court as a cheater, until it impacts her bottom line. If at least, I would be curious how much she would be willing to leverage away, to get rid of that scarlet A!

So, head over to D whenever you feel it is appropriate. Once she is served the D clock starts and you basically hand the process over to your attorney while you start laying the foundation for your new beginning. This is where acceptance of your new reality can either really sink in and scare you....or even excite you. One of the greatest joys rediscovered is truly being your own boss of your own abode. It is also a time we rediscover are former selves before we surrendered a part of it to be in a union with another. I became much happier when I rediscovered tgat former me. I got to reintroduce him to my son's and they were pleasantly surprised. It was as if they got into a time machine and went back 25 years to see what I was like. We've bonded so much more since my own D.

Here's a question for the group. How do you deal with friends who make it clear they are staying neutral and "we are here for both of you?"

I'm a little bit sore that apparently none of our friends has taken her to task. My inclination is to tell friends who give me the "neutral" line that it's up to them, but it's up to me to only stay friends with those who can tell the difference between right and wrong.

BeeBee, in my case, I found this particularly hard to accept. even my brother sent a text to my WW saying that he wouldn't take sides or blame anyone for the A. this is when I really felt I needed backup. it left me feeling utterly alone and isolated.

My WW had basically no fallout from friends or family infact she was messaged constantly by friends asking if she was ok. only one friend asked me. even my family told me to put it behind me and forget it, for the sake of the kids.

Thank you doggiediva, Jduff and Robster66!

Robster, "alone and isolated" describes it exactly. It's like they are saying "ok, she cheated on you, but she had a good reason." That's particularly hard that your family takes a neutral position. I'm flabbergasted that they would do such a thing.

One of my closest cousins is sort of doing that, and texted with my wife after she found out. I think it is because when she divorced, she was the "leaver." So, at some level she identifies with my wife (though my cousin didn't leave because she wa having an affair, she was just fed up).

I'm finding out a lot about other peoplel's marriages, and how rocky they have been at times, and about other people's divorces. I think their experiences make them identify with either her (as the leaver - the one who needs to "find herself.") or me (as the left.)

So, maybe something like that is what is happening with your friends and family.

It's also socially the stance to take. Society should maybe bring back a little old-fashioned public condemnation.. It might make people rethink their actions, plans and self-rationalizations if friends and family were calling them out for it.

I saw the lawyer, and was a bit disapointed. I was hoping to just hand it off to her and get a break from all this. But, she needed more info on something which requires a lot of digging through financial records.

I'm also a bit disappointed by how little income I'm going to end up with. It's a equal split (if that's the way we end up mediating it), but "equal" is not the same as "just," you know? Especially if you were planning on something more., and that plan was smashed by the spouse/partner.

That was just the start of a downward slide. Dealing with the financial records just reminds me of the situation, which is depressing. And the wife and I got into an email fight about finances, with a lot of barbed comments on both sides.

Then, a friend who's been having health problems went into hospice, and died two days ago. That same day I learned I was rejected from getting a job I was counting on. I really thought I had it in the bag. Turns out they hired someone from inside the department - advertising for applicants was probably just a formality - they wanted the insider all along. And of course, they didn't call me to tell me like they promised they would.

So, now I need to find a job on top of everything else, and who the hell is going to hire a 64-almost-65 year old?

I'm about as low as I can go now. My friends and family can tell. They are concerned. I'm getting calls and emails and invites. Most of which I can't deal with. I'm telling them I'm not really up for anything social.

So, the wife emails me and says that if I'm not going to the weekly gathering of friends we used to attend together,( but now I've been doing it alone) please let her know so she can attend.

How's that for empathy?

It's a equal split (if that's the way we end up mediating it), but "equal" is not the same as "just," you know? Especially if you were planning on something more., and that plan was smashed by the spouse/partner.

That's the problem. There is no real 'justice' to this. These are the dark times, but they will get better.

How's that for empathy?

Not part of her core. It would require putting someone else's needs/concerns before your own....and I don't think that has ever been the case.

So, the wife emails me and says that if I'm not going to the weekly gathering of friends we used to attend together,( but now I've been doing it alone) please let her know so she can attend.

Always tell her you are going whether you are or not.

She has fired you from the job of being her husband. Right now, the only thing that you need to communicate about is finances. Anything "personal" is off of the table.

Here's a question for the group. How do you deal with friends who make it clear they are staying neutral and "we are here for both of you?"

She left you for another man and they are ok with that? Dump them!!!

So, the wife emails me and says that if I'm not going to the weekly gathering of friends we used to attend together,( but now I've been doing it alone) please let her know so she can attend.

This requires no response.

Go dark and eliminate any contact except business or divorce related.

Never answer a phone call from her if it's important she'll leave a voicemail. 99% of her call/texts you should be able to ignore.

So, the wife emails me and says that if I'm not going to the weekly gathering of friends we used to attend together,( but now I've been doing it alone) please let her know so she can attend.

I do what another suggested. I ALWAYS say I am going to everything to try and dissuade my STBX and the OW from attending. I RSVP to everything. Its a small revenge, but it works. The one event I didn't RSVP to...everyone said the OW attended.

I noticed she sent her EX to another event that was for the children.

She checked out of this marriage a long time ago and neglected to tell you, BB64. I'm sorry for your deep pain. Hang in there.

Ha, I'm learning from this forum! I did almost everything you folks suggested - before I read your feedback.

I went silent. Then when she sent me a last minute "please answer my question, I'd like to go if I can" note, I sent the minimal "probably attending" reply.

She's also expressed her intent to attend all of the memorial events for our long-time friend. "I assume you'll be there, too."

I replied that if she was going to be there, I wouldn't. She didn't offer to skip any parts so I could go also.

I think I'm going to wait until the events are announced before I push any more on that.

I feel like I'm being set up. If I don't go I'll look childish. If I do go it'll reinforce her fantasy that we will all get over this soon.

[This message edited by BeeBee64 at 3:18 PM, November 5th (Saturday)]

I feel like I'm being set up. If I don't go I'll look childish. If I do go it'll reinforce her fantasy that we will all get over this soon.

Go and ignore her. Find a good friend to go with, hang with, sit with at the events.

BeeBee64; I'd go and stay away from her. If anybody asks why you aren't spending time with her TELL THEM!!! Don't get in a shouting match just be honest and BLUNT!

That's the way I would do it. If I knew ANY female that I could take and request small PDA's from I would take her too. If it cost me a really nice dinner in exchange that would be fine. Nothing really big just small PDA's like holding hands on occasion or standing close. Just saying.

I should add that I am a Mad Hatter and had revenge sex with my ex's sister so take my advice with that in mind! LOL

Go. Nothing is written that you have to be hear or engage her in any way.

I would go and pick a spot nowhere near her and leave without acknowledging her in any way.