SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

(follow-up to the post I just posted 2 minutes ago)

Also, to be honest, and maybe this says more about me and that I'm weak, but I'm having a hard time thinking some of the things you guys are saying....like that she is trying to set up a love nest to go be with this guy, she wants the affair to continue, etc.

I legitimately think she is utterly broken inside. I think she did terrible things because she is a selfish inconsiderate bitch. I don't know how she got this way, she wasn't always like that. I think she perpetuated the terrible things because she was naive. I think she treated me awfully because she was utterly riddled with guilt, seeing me trying and in agony for months while she indulge in her affair to feel good. It made her hate me in order to justify herself and rid her of her guilt.

Now it has all come to light

I am not saying she isn't done with this guy or isn't scheming. I'm still on the lookout, thus the camera and the VAR. But what I see more of is a broken person. Utterly broken. Her mom told me yesterday that she kept WW on the phone all night because she wanted to commit suicide.

I'm not saying all this to say I'm having sympathy. I still realize that I'm living with my enemy, and I won't forget that. Any time I soften I read those lists of hurts that I made, I remember how she has been, and I cry again.

But I also don't think this person is trying to siphon money out of my accounts to start up a secret fund to continue her affair.

I might be naive. I have been before. This is just my .02 on what I'm seeing. And i know an earlier poster said if you're going to be done, then be done. If you're not then don't.

I want to be done, but I don't. The problem is being honest with myself about the reasons why I don't. Bad self esteem? Fear? Hope? I don't know.

Like I said in my previous reply I don't know if I can ever forgive this, not that she has even expressed wanting it. She's still in the fog anyways. She may never come out. I am on the journey to discover what I want, and I'm doing it alone. It's just going to take me time I think.

Guys (and gals) please feel free to poke holes in what I'm saying. This is just a conscious stream of thought. I may very well feel different tomorrow. I do humbly request that your tone refrain from being harsh, even if you think I'm being stupid.

Thanks again, everybody.

[This message edited by collapsed at 11:54 AM, January 8th (Tuesday)]

Sorry, last post for now, I promise.

I assume the state of mind that I've worked into is sort of the normal process in dealing with this? I know cheaters have a handbook they play by, do we?

Also thanks again guys I regularly read through this entire thread to get everybody's perspective, to remind myself of the cheater's script, and to see from somebody else's point of view.

Yes, a BS does have sort of a handbook.

They look for reasons. They look for explanations. They look for justifications. They try to accept part of the blame.

In the end it boils down to this. SHE HAD AN AFFAIR BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO DO IT AND TO HELL WITH WHO IT HURT AND THE CONSEQUENCES.

She is totally selfish. She got what she wanted and did not think of how if would hurt you or the kids if she got caught.

She even said she was going to therapy to try and understand what she needed to be happy. Not to understand how she could betray her husband so badly. Not how she could be such a liar. Not how she could put her own children second to her affair.

It is still all about her.

Stop trying to apply logic to what she has done. It is not logical. Stop thinking that you may have been part of the problem or part of the cause. Married people have problems. Most do not cheat because of it.

You cannot understand crazy.

Post as much as you like.

Fear of different is present for many of us. Sometimes we know we dont want what we have now but we dont want to give up on what we built. Its a strong person who just walks into a new life confidently and without hesitation. Sometimes you just need to tell yourself its ok to be unsure but youll do the best you can every day.

It is still all about her.

Stop trying to apply logic to what she has done. It is not logical. Stop thinking that you may have been part of the problem or part of the cause. Married people have problems. Most do not cheat because of it.

You cannot understand crazy.

Thanks Tim, believe me I am way past the part of accepting any blame. Period. None whatsover.

So the only reason I actually had the convo with my MIL yesterday was because I felt they were enabling her and it needed to stop. We focused all about selfishness. How it led to the affair, the lie, how she acted, and even now. She agreed that she's not remorseful, only regretful, which is born out of selfishness.

I feel like I might just be spinning in circles talking crazy talk. A voice inside me is saying to give pause and see if she can be broken out of the fog, see how utterly selfish she was, and put everything in her shell of a soul into trying to fix it. I won't be waiting, and I don't think I can forgive, but I still want to see that. Maybe that's weakness on me. Maybe I'm just having trouble letting go.

But either way I'm not hopeful that it'll happen and I'm certainly not waiting. Like I said I want to figure out my damn self and what I need and want. I'm getting active, both from an exercise standpoint and getting involved with friends and new groups of people. I'll see where life takes me.

Collapsed

Some may disagree with me but I am always for being honest and communication.

So I am going to recommend both for you.

I dont in any way mean to say you should stop proceeding with lawyers and down the path of D. But while you are doing that I recommend you tell her what you need to see her do to have a glimmer of a chance to save your relationship.

Words I would use and you can customize for yourself would be:

“You have broken my heart. While we had issues in our M, they were ours and ours to work on. No matter what, I felt we were in this together. I was wrong, you turned to someone else, destroying what we had and another family at the same time.

I would like to know what you want going forward. If you are in love with him and not me then there’s nothing left for us to save here. If you realize he’s just as much a pice if shit as you are for doing this and he’s not a good person then perhaps we can talk.

The marriage we had is over. It will never be the same again. I’m moving forward to get out of this pain and infidelity. I am going to work to find happiness again for me and our kids.

If you want to be a part of that you need to start working and start now. You need to research what it takes to repair a relationship that has been destroyed by infidelity like yours.

It takes years. I struggle to see how you’d be up for that, but surprise me. Figure it out. If you’re still talking to him in any way your on a path away from me, that’s your first hint. If you’re still protecting him in anyway way that’s another hint you’re going in the opposite direction from me and my love.

I’m taking this path no matter what. I can’t control what you do, only you can. It’s time to grow up and figure out what you want.

From this point on we will only talk about finances and the kids until you show me you’ve done the work to fix what’s been broken inside of you and that I’m your one and only.

If that’s not the case and not what you want, then I wish you well. “

Say what you want Collapsed. Be honest. And then move on.

If she follows, great. If she doesn’t great.

But let her know exactly where you stand.

Good luck.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 1:56 PM, January 8th (Tuesday)]

The cognitive dissonance that you describe is something all BH's wrestle with. She is there in front of you, same pretty face, same soft voice, same hair and eyes and smell -- same woman you loved for years. A big piece of your emotional memory can still hear and feel and taste and smell what it was like before the A (or at least before you knew about the A). That piece does not want to let go. That piece wishes the A could just disappear and you could return to where you were.

This is why we say that the woman you were actually married to is not the woman you thought you were married to. Because behind that sweet face and gentle voice is a mind that decided to get undressed and let another man put his dick in her, then lie to you about it, etc. People are multifaceted. They are not all bad nor all good. This is a facet of your WW that you didn't previously know about. It doesn't negate all of the facets you did know about. It merely adds to them and changes the overall picture of who she is.

Have you had your conversation with the BOW yet?

Why can't Post Partum depression be real?? My WH repeated his same story to me over and over again for the past several years and today it all makes sense. Keep listening to your WW story over and over again as well as follow her actions. I just want you to understand I am not condoning her actions at all!

Hormones play a huge role in womens emotions. I went into menopause and my body and thoughts changed. My WH took my natural biological changes as a threat against us and him. Also, neither of us realized that I was beginning to enter menopause. I even didn't realize what was going on with me at the time. He felt that I was rejecting him and I had interests in other men. Not true. It's just that my hormone levels were reduced significantly and the sex became very painful for me at the time and this is when he started to reach out to other women. He thought I was rejecting him. Didn't help that he spent a good amount of time getting drunk and his thinking was way off.

Listen Collasped, you don't need to make any decisions about anything right now. Time will reveal everything you need to know. If you take one day to just be calm in today, you will be fine. Everything you are going to experience takes time. Once I realized this, I began to slow my mind and thoughts down and would relax a little. I realized I didn't need to get everything done or have all my answers in that one moment.

It's interesting when I look back at all of what I went through, I allowed my instincts to guide me to the next indicated step. It helped me to slow way down.

Try reading up on Post Partum depression and see what you can learn.

Hormones play a huge role in womens emotions. I went into menopause and my body and thoughts changed. My WH took my natural biological changes as a threat against us and him. Also, neither of us realized that I was beginning to enter menopause. I even didn't realize what was going on with me at the time. He felt that I was rejecting him and I had interests in other men. Not true.

I mean...it was true for my WW though. She wasn't disinterested in men, or in sex. She was very interested in sex with a specific man.

I try to understand that the body goes through changes and those changes are difficult to deal with. Maybe damn near impossible to deal with. But she chose to deal with them in the worst way possible, you know? I don't know if learning any more about postpartum depression is going to change anything about my mind other than make me sympathetic. I still can't ever agree that it's a justification.

Your therapist is right Collapsed, you should not make any rash decisions. That doesn't preclude you taking from steps to make sure that you have all the information to make the best decision. Nor does that mean you shouldn't set things in motion to improve your situation. For a different take on a couple of points your therapist raised, consider about this:

If you can have any insight into lies or actions your wife may use as leverage in a custody disagreement, the time to deal with them is before they become part of the official record. In other words, you want to cut off nastiness before it poisons the proceedings. That's the point of recording. Not to use as evidence after the fact, but to make informed choices during the process.

You absolutely have to tell the OBS now. The main reason is decency Would you want someone else to be acting in the dark as you were, trying to make her marriage work and not knowing that her husband was sexually involved with someone else? Telling the OBS is not about revenge or trying to influence your wife. It's about giving the woman knowledge she can use to take control of her situation.

Once you finish your legal consults, you should probably go ahead and file. There is nothing final about filing, everything you ask for in the filing is negotiable. Filing signals that you are serious about getting out of infidelity and ready to talk about the terms of doing that. Quite honestly, I don't think your wife is interested in reconciliation; she seems to be more interested in knowing how hard line you are going to be about what she sees as an inevitable break up. She has a vengeful heart and cannot fathom the idea that you may be acting from a different place. Pay attention when she accuses you of doing things like hiding money, it may reflect her own plans.

Spend as much time as you can with the kids. As toddlers, they are very mommy centered right now because they want comfort and what is familiar. Make them your priority when you are at home, let them know that they are loved no matter who is there. If you work hard on this now, you will have a happier relationship with them and abetter chance at a favorable custody arrangement .

You probably want to dial back the discussions with your MIL now. Even though she's on your side, ultimately she has to be looking out for her daughter. Do not share you plans with her and try not to use her as a crutch.

All in all, you have really stepped up and have shown yourself to be a man worth fight for (not against). You "just found out" about this did not sit around wringing your hands. Yes, you've cried, but you also acted. If you keep putting your kids and yourself first you'll come out okay.

Collapsed, this is why earlier upthread, I wrote that she did not do it to you per se, but rather for her. She is not an evil mastermind, but a broken person who sought soothing in the arms of another man.

You make the decisions with which you are comfortable.

Until then, I will continue to press you to take actions that will make you a healthier person whether you choose to reconcile or divorce.

You are correct Collapsed, nothing ever justifies unfaithfulness. Ultimately whether you make your decision today about whether you R or D, it is ultimately your decision. Your WW chose her path and you now get to decide on the direction of your path. It is totally your decision.

I chose R with my husband but he also has done and is doing the the work to help me to feel safe again. I still have setbacks and it's been almost two years since the last time he has tried to hurt me because of his own pain he was experiencing, actually because I unknowingly was doing something that was causing him insecurity in our marriage.Today, anytime I go down or feel unsafe, he does his best to help me to overcome my fears and if he is having issues, I do my best to understand and help him through whatever it is that he needs.

One other thing, it takes two to R. You both have to want it. Both my WH and I had to look at ourselves and make the changes necessary to bring our marriage back together again.

I know in time you will begin to feel better. It just takes time, lots of time.

[This message edited by Hurtmyheart at 3:13 PM, January 8th (Tuesday)]

Collapsed:

Stevesn has given you some great advice moving forward. Please read and reread. You know your WW better than any of us internet strangers. You are the one who has to live with whatever you decide for your family and future. We can point out consistent patterns in cheater behavior but none of knows your WW. Take whatever time you need to come to peace with your decision. Some WW’s come out of the fog, and some some don’t. Your WW has put you thru hell during the last year. You need time to process everything that has happened. Take care of you first. I could care less whether you ultimately decide to R or D. You are on the right path to see an attorney and find out your rights. Good luck.

Well Collapsed, I think that you have done a very good job looking out for yourself and your kids in a very short time. She has had many months to think about this you have had week or two.

In regards to outing them to HR. If your WW loses her job because of the affair which totally depends on the company. Some look at such hanky panky as a fireable action some a slap on the wrist.

But if she gets let go because of this most judges or arbitrators (but it depends on the county and the judge) will look at her education and work history and if it is consistent they will tell that losing her job means that she will need to go get another job to pay her bills not rely on you for SS.

I made more money but my XWW had 2 advanced degrees, and 20 years of steady employment. She asked the arbitrator about SS and the arb said no way will a judge approve that. She could make her own money.

Maybe use the threat of reporting as leverage for better settlement or custody

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 4:21 PM, January 8th (Tuesday)]

She's still in the fog anyways. She may never come out. I am on the journey to discover what I want, and I'm doing it alone.

It takes both of you to reconcile. You'll get nowhere by yourself and only punish yourself more by trying. You only have one choice at this stage and that is divorce. That may change in the future, but it is for certain right now.

I often think this fear of reporting to HR will result in greater alimony is often exaggerated. I admit I am no expert but I agree with MickeyBill2016

But if she gets let go because of this most judges or arbitrators (but it depends on the county and the judge) will look at her education and work history and if it is consistent they will tell that losing her job means that she will need to go get another job to pay her bills not rely on you for SS

Likewise you should inform the OBS immediately. Stop overthinking tactics.

You are doing extremely well otherwise. She is the weak one in this relationship as Mene stated. You seem to be finding your inner strength. She will see that and respect you for it and fear it at the same time because she will see that she can no longer manipulate you as she has done so often in the past.

I too like Stevesn's advice. Setting out your position in a calm and rational manner shows strength not weakness. It may well pay dividends. As many have said you cannot control her thoughts or actions but you can control your own. At some point she will compare you with her weak and pathetic POS boyfriend and wonder what she saw in him. If not, then she is not worth having back.

I am in favour of reconciliation but not when the affair continues after DD, where there were deliberate and sustained attacks on you by her in the affair and in the marriage or where there is little or no remorse (as opposed to regret). Currently on a scale of 0-10, she is not even close to 0.

To me the way she acted before and after DD would be pretty much a deal-breaker even if she starts showing true remorse but allow yourself time to make that decision. Tell her this; it is about time she started thinking of trying to save her marriage and not her boyfriend's job and family. You owe neither of them any mercy but you can show her some grace if you so desire.

p.s. ignore all the bs about you not supporting her when she was depressed. Many, many people suffer from depression and do not betray their spouses. Ask her to name one respected professional source that recommends cheating as a remedy to depression or indeed marriage problems.

p.p.s. it is nice to have the support of her parents but if they start interfering too much, do the 180 on them.

As with any forum you take what you need and leave the rest.

That goes for therapists too. They aren't gods.

There is a lot of wisdom here. Many have gone through this same senario. They are all different but eerily follow the same cheater script.

Affairs don't necessarily end on discovery. Especially the long term ones.

At this time you just don't know what she'll do. You do know what she's done so protect yourself. It's the smart choice.

It takes both of you to reconcile. You'll get nowhere by yourself and only punish yourself more by trying. You only have one choice at this stage and that is divorce. That may change in the future, but it is for certain right now.

I'm normally all for taking your time deciding to R or D but your WW is giving you nothing to work with for R. Breaking the fog isn't something you can wait out. She isn't going to magically change her mind about anything on her own. She will need something to get her to make a different decision. That could be D papers, therapy/books/information, etc. She's only going to stew in her brokenness.

Furthermore, why didn't your MIL call on the police to have your WW hospitalized for being suicidal? If she is suicidal, being talked to on the phone for a night isn't going to cure that. She needs professional help.

On the other hand, it's possible that your WW wasn't actually suicidal. IME, people I have known who committed suicide did not make a big production of it. They didn't warn people. They didn't tell anyone so that no one could stop them. They just did it. They even still talked about the future leading up to it. Sometimes people say they're suicidal to control others, for attention, and other reasons but have no real intention of killing themselves. Either they make a weak attempt at it that anyone would know wouldn't work or they reach out to people who can easily stop them. It's up to a professional to handle your WW now no matter what the case is. Encourage your MIL to get her help and if WW refuses, it was likely all a show.

Lastly, what your therapist said about child custody is completely untrue. There is a time limit for evidence to work in your favor. Let's say by chance you find a meth pipe in your WW's belongings tomorrow. If you don't bring it up and choose to sit on that information, your WW has all the time in the world to make excuses and white knuckle until she can pass a drug test. Additionally the courts will wonder why if her smoking meth was such a big problem you didn't alter your behavior regarding custody or mention it sooner. I have seen a father get screwed over because he didn't jump on his WW's opiate addiction and she was able to delay drug tests and stay clean long enough to pass one but then went right back to using so it made him look like a liar and it wasn't something he could keep bringing up when she had complied in the end and came out clean. Your therapist isn't qualified to give you legal advice regarding custody so please keep seeing those lawyers and listening to them.

Collapsed - fair warning: it’s very likely your MIL will not be on your side at the end of the day.

I likewise had a good relationship with my MIL and when the facts came out we had some nice chats. She was so sorry. Of course I had no choice. She understands. Of course she was on my side. I did no wrong. Her daughter was a serial cheater. That didn’t last too long. Blood/water - the expression really came about for a reason. Just be prepared for the re-writing of history with you as the bad guy my friend.