SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Maybe I am alone out here, at least on this board (although I suspect some of this is generational, perhaps? But I'm not a spring chicken either, I'm 37).

But back to what I was saying- I categorically do NOT put my best foot forward on dates. I tell people straight up, what you see is what you get. If I wear makeup, it's for one date tops since I tend to wear it only for special occasions. I'm not on my best behaviour- I try to be on average behaviour.

I am not interested in pulling a bait and switch, and I date people with similar plans.

I can't underestimate how important I believe it is to put this thought out there that you don't have to "play games" when dating. You don't have to try and machinate some version of yourself that you think is acceptable. None of that is necessary if you don't want to.

It is okay to be genuine. Once you get out of your 20s, people aren't just looking for hot/wealthy partners, they're looking for real partners. Be yourself. You cannot build true intimacy without authenticity. Why would you want someone to be seeing a mask, or a version of you that doesn't exist?

It's okay to be YOU. And out there somewhere will be people who will like you for you, without all the fluff and games. I promise.

But back to what I was saying- I categorically do NOT put my best foot forward on dates. I tell people straight up, what you see is what you get. If I wear makeup, it's for one date tops since I tend to wear it only for special occasions. I'm not on my best behaviour- I try to be on average behaviour.

I understand what you're saying. But, some people might say, "She doesn't view me as important enough to even make a good first impression.

The games that some 'men' play to get a woman in bed is exactly the game I do not want to play EVER again.

I'm sure there are lot's of women who are down for just the sex... Isn't there a dating app for that?

This might be a bit of a generational thing, societal norms and all that. It also might be a bit of semantics or misunderstanding.

some people might say, "She doesn't view me as important enough to even make a good first impression.

My bet is that she wouldn't want to continue to be involved with such a person. I sure wouldn't. Wearing makeup and fancy clothes and being on your "best" behavior, whatever that means, is how you make a good first impression? Maybe for a job interview (sans makeup), but not for a romantic relationship It's false. That is not good. I'd rather someone be real with me.

There's a difference between being authentic and letting it all hang out. I wouldn't go on date without showering and looking unkempt, unless it was directly from working out. I'm not going to fart at dinner. But, I'm not going to pretend I'm something I'm not. I'm not going to tell lies in hopes the person will like me. If I do that, I will most likely end up with someone I don't like.

People do change over the course of a LTR. In the short term, as they get more comfortable with each other, they do start letting it all hang out. Maybe they do fart at dinner. As 6ears go by, hopefully, people grow and change and discover new ways of perceiving things, change their minds as to what's important. That has shown to be the case in political trends. That's not the same as being inauthentic.

Being purposely dishonest in order to, essentially, take advantage of another person just is not ok.

I will dress nicely for a date and try to look good because I do want to be attractive, but I won't lie and pretend I'm someone I'm not. I wouldn't go on the date wearing something that I just do not ever ever wear in my life. Whatever I wear on the date is something that people who know me have seen me in before. They will have seen my hair in whatever way before and my make-up in whatever way before. There is a difference between looking nice for a date and pretending you're someone you aren't or pretending you have intentions that you don't.

There is no comparison between dressing nicely for a date and telling lies to your date in order to get laid.

I will dress nicely for a date and try to look good because I do want to be attractive, but I won't lie and pretend I'm someone I'm not. I wouldn't go on the date wearing something that I just do not ever ever wear in my life. Whatever I wear on the date is something that people who know me have seen me in before. They will have seen my hair in whatever way before and my make-up in whatever way before. There is a difference between looking nice for a date and pretending you're someone you aren't or pretending you have intentions that you don't.

Shower (check)...clean clothes (check)...neatly groomed (check)...remove fart smell from car (check)...brus teeth (check)...am I missing anything else?

There is no comparison between dressing nicely for a date and telling lies to your date in order to get laid.

True. I think one can try to impress without getting laid.

There is a difference between looking nice for a date and pretending you're someone you aren't or pretending you have intentions that you don't.

Exactly. My fch pretended to be someone he wasn't so tha I would like him. Look where that got us.

There is no comparison between dressing nicely for a date and telling lies to your date in order to get laid.

Again, yes! I'll take it a step further and say there's no comparison between a woman dressing in a way that a man perceives as her wanting sex and turning him down (what many men would call a tease, I suspect), and lying to get said sex.

Again, yes! I'll take it a step further and say there's no comparison between a woman dressing in a way that a man perceives as her wanting sex and turning him down (what many men would call a tease, I suspect), and lying to get said sex.

It's a problem as old as time itself.

People do change over the course of a LTR.

I'd add to that, people are much different in a romantic partnership than they are with everyone else in the world, and that different version of themselves also changes over time. People have an idea in their mind of what their partner *should be* and what they themselves *should be* in that partnership. Trying to reprogram what we see these roles as is difficult because it's so ingrained. So if you're chummy with someone and interested in them, that version you've come to know isn't necessarily the same one you'll get when you two start dating.

I've thought about this very thing with regard to office romances. I'm chummy with everyone in my office, and the majority of them are women my age plus or minus 10 years. I get to hear all the relationship details depending on where they're at emotionally in their partnerships. There are some I would probably ask out if A) they weren't taken and B) I didn't have a firm "don't shit where you eat" mentality, but I never lose sight of the fact that the them I know at work is not necessarily the them at home, i.e. the version of themselves that, like all of us, unloads their baggage onto their partner. And it makes me wonder if work affair people ever considered this during the courtship, or if they just jump in with both feet thinking what you see is what you get.

I never lose sight of the fact that the them I know at work is not necessarily the them at home, i.e. the version of themselves that, like all of us, unloads their baggage onto their partner. And it makes me wonder if work affair people ever considered this during the courtship, or if they just jump in with both feet thinking what you see is what you get.

That's a very good point.

Assholes, both male and female oftentimes don't initially appear as assholes. They seem confident, as if they have their life together, know what they want, possibly even charismatic. Most of which are traits people tend to like, at times even admire.

Obviously this is paper-thin and falls apart quickly once you get to know them. But by then they oftentimes already managed to get a foot in the door.

All that follows is JMHO based on my experiences and observations.

Women DO NOT like assholes, but unfortunately that's what a lot of so-called 'nice guys' are. I should know because that was me. I wasn't meaning to be, but I was. I had the best intentions, but remind me, what is the path to hell paved with again?

Let me explain.

Before, I always treated my wife well, even when she 'misbehaved' or disappointed me. Her: 'I'm sorry I'm late. I got caught up in a conversation with an old friend.' Me: 'Oh, that's okay. I understand.' -- Even though, for example, I had plans and her being late messed them up and pissed me off, especially for a 'conversation'. I'd need something done, ask her to do it, counted on her to do it, she'd say she would do it, and then promptly forget or give me some BS excuse that it was too hard or there wasn't enough time or whatever.

She'd make an excuse and I'd let it go, like an ass, when I should have jumped in her backside with both feet, and wanted to. But I'd bite my tongue, keep the peace and NOT be an asshole, all to my detriment.

OM didn't take ANY of her crap. And yes, ALL women occasionally give men crap, the so-called Shit-Test. It's part of our evolution. They test us to see if we're strong enough to stand up to them, confront bad behavior, set boundaries and have standards.

It's logical.

If we can't stand up TO her, how can we stand up FOR her, or our kids? It will start off small like a missed commitment, and errant word, etc. If we fail, and we often do, I did by accepting things instead of calling her on them, the tests escalate. Money out of my wallet without my permission. Too much spending, on FRIVILOUS junk. Attitude in public or in front of others. Contradicting me to and in front of the kids and making it seem they can disregard/disrespect me too.

Cheating is the ultimate Shit-Test. It's the one I faced. I don't take the blame for her affair at all, but I have to accept responsibility for allowing things that I should have and could have stopped.

After a lot of meditation, soul-searching, pain, tears and anger,commonly known as the 'rollercoaster', I reached the following conclusion:

I call it the five keys to a better life and It has helped me be a better husband, father, worker, neighbor, brother and friend. I'll share what I came up with:

Imagine a key ring with 5 keys on it. Each key has a name and the ring itself has a theme:

HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY.

The keys are

1. Learn to ASSERT

2. Learn to LEAD

3. Learn to COMMIT

4. Have STANDARDS and INTEGRITY

and

5. BE REALISTIC (or have situational awareness)

To assert you have to learn how to stand up for yourself, set boundaries, make it clear what is acceptable and what is not and perhaps most importantly ASK FOR WHAT YOU WANT with the expectation of getting it and if you can't get it, or some reasonable and acceptable compromise, HAVE the STRENGTH to WALK AWAY.

To lead you have to make decisions, plans, have goals and move towards them. No one likes someone who is indecisive and unsure, especially women looking for a mate. When we lead and take a stand we gain confidence and inspire confidence in others. Confidence is sexy.

Once you've made your plans, decisions, set your goals you must stick to them, that is commit. You can't vascillate this way and that. Plant you feet. If people can move you, if SHE can move you, how committed were you? Why should she trust of believe you.

Having standards and integrity is just a more polite way of saying 'don't be a slut'. Men can be as big as sluts as women, perhaps even more so.

Women are the gate keepers of sex and men are the gate keepers of relationships.

A woman, even a somewhat unattractive one, can pretty easily find sex. There's always some guy who will 'service' her. But that guy won't necessarly girlfriend or wife her up. If she makes it really easy to sleep with her, if all a man had to do was smile, say she's pretty and pay a little attention and he can have her and not just a special man, but men in general, she wouldn't be valued or respected. Likewaise, if a woman only has to give a man a little sex, or not even that but just smile and pay attention, etc, and he's trying to 'put a ring on it' and contribute all his provision i.e. money, dinners, outings, help with work, advice, errands, etc, and this is again not for a special woman but women in general, anyone will do, HE won't be respected and valued. If the slut , male or female, is being treated like garbage and they keep coming back for more, what little estime might have been there will rapidly disappear. In both cases it was too easy. Bottom line, male or female, don't be a slut.

Lastly, being realistic about things is just seeing things as they are and dealing with the REALITY of it instead of seeing things the way we want or hope them to be and dealing with a FANTASY. For us guys, if our women are just not treating us well, and we've told them what we want, need and expect and are not giving it to us but they could, it may be time to bounce.

All of these things tied together by the HONESTY ring work together and build upon one another. The Bible teaches a husband to LOVE his wife, but it teaches a woman to reverence (respect) her husband. Why? Because, and this is just my feeling, if you get her respect you can have her love. Guys, not every woman will love you. Most won't, but that's okay. If you use the keys, as I now do, they will tend to respect you. The women that COULD or WOULD love you will see this and, hopefully, get that arousal.

A powerful man can fall for a simple woman if she's calm, pleasant, feminine and nourturing. A man could have those great qualities and many more, and a woman, could value them, but if he doesn't do the things above I doubt she'll truly have his love. Friend zone anyone?

I failed myself and marriage in so many ways, by not doing the above and having a rose-colored glasses, Disney vision of things. My wife found me attractive, or at least found those and other qualities in me attractive and any woman worth her salt should, but that didn't get her aroused. Get that? There is a difference between attraction and arousal. The OM in my case could get her motor running because he wasn't afraid to lose her because he didn't care about her. He had no problem checking her, putting his foot down and setting his expectations...high expectations. It's ersatz to what husbands can give, but because it's different and seems genuine, many women just go for it.

Women are not these gentle angel delicate snowflakes. They are just as human and flawed as we are, but if we treat them like their shit don't stink even though it does and they KNOW it does we are being dishonest and insincere and women hate that crap. Live and learn. I did. Just my two cents.