SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Be very careful with the MC; it could turn into a quack one validating her and her bullshit, and then she will throw this in your face... Happened to me when the POS MC told me my STBX's OPOS cheater at work was just a "symptom" of a bad M, and that I needed to work on myself, and not worry about him, and that he would be the last person she would run off with.

I told MC that was bullshit, STBX stormed out of the office, and the MC told me I threw her under the bus, and I needed to go outside and apologize to her. Yep, sure enough, STBX continued to deepen the relationship, tons more lies, she was still completely unremorseful, blamed the A 100% on me, became completely unrecognizable, and yeah, she ended up running off with POS.

Here is how it goes IMO and terrible experience. You tell her however you do, that tough shit about no "closure", and tell her flat out that if she does meet/talk/text/fb a single time, D papers will be served immediately, and MEAN IT! Do not give her a second to add to your ruination, because it will be nothing but co-coordination between these cheaters to screw you over more. You must believe that anything you think is too crazy, or she would never, isn't, and it would be easier to have a heroin junky go cold turkey and fix themselves than these cheaters... Believe it!

YOU MUST be fully able to end the M to potentially save it. Believe me, I know how awful this shit is, I really do, but as long as she is calling the shots, you are going to stay in limbo-land, and in hell.

Strength to you friend.

Calkid...

I think you are starting to see why I posted what I did on page 3. I'll recap so you don't have to go look

"If I had it to do over again I would have filed for divorce. Did I want to work it out? Sure I did but it would have saved me a world of heartache. You can't bring them back around with love. It just ain't gonna happen. This is a wake up call situation.

If I would have served my wife with papers, all her shenanigans would have come to a complete and abrupt halt immediately. But I didn't and it drug on for months."

What ends up happening is like a drug addict and their disease. It's like thinking if I love them more they'll stop. That just doesn't happen. Only when they have to make hard choices do they commit to change.

Right now Ms. Calkid probably has no incentive to make hard choices. She is punching holes in the life boat and knowing the whole time no matter what, you will keep her afloat.

It's been a year for me and my wife said the other day "how was it possible for me to do what I did"? "What was I thinking"?

These are the statements of someone that has stepped back and realized how foolish their actions were.

I know you are feeling that if you just try harder you can keep it together but that choice isn't yours, it's hers.

Only when I was willing to let my wife go did she wake up. Once I was willing it was pretty instant.

My Dad once told me that a monkey won't turn loose of a branch until he has ahold of another. He said a woman is the same way. (No offense to anyone). It was true. My wife kept me on the hook in case the OM fell through.

If I would have filed for divorce and she would have said "I'm free" he would have said "no thanks" and it would have been over. I didn't let that happened and suffered for months.

My marriage is good now and we are back together.

My sis-in-law had a nice chat with her this morning. Basically told her that she's acting like a teenager and she needed to grow up, "for crying out loud, you're there with yout grandson. You're not a teenager! Grow up and be responsible for your action. You don't get to have things your way. You'll never understand how Calkid is feeling because you've never had this done to you." "We'll, this is how I felt about his porn addiction." "Really? That's not even in the same ballpark. What did he do? Watch some movies and masturbate? Not the same thing and you know it! You put another mans penis in your mouth, had intimate moments with another man, and total innapropriate conversations with him!" "We'll, I didn't end things on my terms and didn't have any control over how things ended between us. All my power to make my own decisions was stripped away from me." Then sis-in-law said, "You have forfitted your right to make your own decisions for a while if you want to remain with Calkid and the family. And besides, last time you tried to end it on your own terms, you ended up in the back of Mr.T's truck with your tits in his mouth. Why would you do that?" "I don't know. I guess I thought it was fun." So then sis-in-law tells me, that my wife called Mr. D 1/2 hour after I called him 2 weeks ago and he wouldn't even talk to her. He said, "Its too dangerous for me to talk to you. I cannot talk, goodbye." Then she sent the texts saying that I knew about the affair and stuff. Mrs. Calkid still hasn't told me she tried to call him. Why is she still playing games and still hiding stuff? I can't even tell her I know about the phone call because sis-in-law swore me to seceretcy. Why is she still feeling like this? Is she still in the fog? How much longer til she comes out of the fog? Whey can't she let this piece of trash that doesn't give two shits about her go? Or is it the affair she's having problems letting go of? She says she's not in love with him but he still has feelings for him. He doesn't value her at all yet, I think the world of her. This is just a mess. Just an absolute mess. I read the 180 and that's what I'm doing. No texts or calls unless its about the kids or our std tesing results. Which came back negative for SGC. Which is good.

friend,

i read something a while back that I think is true. It says one of the key things to having a great marriage is a willingness to divorce. It doesn't mean wanting to divorce, it means actually willing to divorce if your needs aren't being met.

i think your wife knows that you dote on her and she doesn't feel any fear at all. she figures you'll just forgive her, so in her state of mind, what does she have to do?

honestly, if i were in your shoes, I'd have the papers for her to sign when she got back. Tell her it's obvious she still has feelings for the guy and still wants it to continue, and you can't handle it.

And then refuse to talk about it.

Maybe that's too extreme, but you really have to pull a 180. A real hard one. She has nothing to lose because she knows you'll be there.

She needs to feel the consequences of her decisions. Just think of all the lies she's told you.

it's been said many times, women respect strength, not weakness. stand up for yourself.

anyway, i wish you the best.

Why is she still playing games and still hiding stuff?

Simply and bluntly (and painfully) she is liar and a cheat. She lied to you and cheated on you so she could enjoy the thrill and excitement of her sordid affair.

You can try to avoid seeing her for what she is. You can wish these truths away all you want. What you want changes nothing, The fact remains that your wife is what she is. Whether you accept these facts about your wayward wife of not is entirely up to you but unfortunately the facts remain.

Until she comes 100% clean and admits to all that she did and continues to do you cannot trust her. She has to "walk the walk". Her words have zero value.

Earlier you said that she offered to do a polygraph to prove that she was telling you the truth. After reading almost two weeks of your posts I am more convinced than ever that this was just a bluff on her part. Call it. Make the appointment.

And while I hate to say this I urge you to prepare yourself for even worse news. If she is still trying to contact him and lying to your about it, don't be surprised if she is also lying about how far she went with him. I know I (and i suspect many other BS's here) would not be surprised to find that oral wasn't the end of it,

Hope for sunshine but prepare for rain.

I repeat, she is a cheat and a liar. Protect yourself.

Sorry that you are here.

Why is she still playing games and still hiding stuff?

Do you really want to hear the answer? I mean we are on page 11 and 206 reponses and you've effectively blown us off and ignored pretty much all of the advice thus far.

Well, I had a pretty good talk with her this afternoon. She said she still has a lot of feelings to sort out. I said, feelings about what? The whole thing. About the affair, how it effected me, how it could have effected the kids, how she cold have done it, etc. I added her feelings about Mr.D? She said she doesnt have feelings for him. "That's not what you said last night?" Well I liked how he made me feel but I don't really have feelings for him. I just need to process all these feelings. I feel like I haven't had a chance to do that yet. I've been so concerned about you, I haven't taken the time to decide how I feel about everything. SNL says I should stop feeling and just push everything down and do what's right." I answered, "I'm hearing a lot of me and I coming out of your mouth. That's the problem. That's all you've been thinking about for the last 3 months. Who was the one person on your mind during this whole affair?" "What? Mr.D?" "You did this whole thing for Mr.D?" "No." "Then who'd you do it for?" "Myself." "That's right. You've been very selfish. You certainly weren't thinking about me and the kids! Life is not all about you." "We'll, I just don't feel I have any choices." "Sure you do. You can take a plane back east and find Mr.D and see if hell take you back." "I don't want to be with him and his crazy lifestyle." "Ok, but that's one choice. Or you can go back there and live with your sister and leave us alone. Or, you can come back here and shack up with one of your friends but that won't be pleasant cuz I'll fight you for the kids and I'll win cuz I'm a good father and you can't provide for them, plus it will be nasty and expensive and painful. Or, you can come back to the man that loves you more than anyone and your kids." "I choose my family." "Then, stop looking back and let it go. It's over. Look forward with me." "I know I need to, I just need some time to let this all go and lit it in the past. So, blah blah blah, the conversation ended pretty well. Earlier, I had to register my u-verse account so I could get the home phone records which incidently, changed our email password. So, she called me and asked if I changed the password and i had to tell her what I did. She asked why i did it and i told her so i could get the home phone records. Man, was she irritated. I gotta go, bye. Then I texted her and asked if she was upset. The said, Nope. Y would I be? I said, ok, just making sure, you sounded upset. Nope fine. Wonder why she's so mad?

well, you're making headway. good for you. for what it's worth, i think you're moving very quickly in the right direction. i think some of us here forget what a shock it is to realize the person you love is sneaking and lying. i know that i for one certainly had a much more innocent view of my wife when it happened to me.

keep being vigilant calkid. it may be counterintuitive, but i think being on top of things is the best chance you have of saving your marriage. if you just read this thread you will see how much you've been misled in the last couple of weeks.

hang in there!

She's mad because you're going to find out more lies.

but that won't be pleasant cuz I'll fight you for the kids and I'll win cuz I'm a good father and you can't provide for them, plus it will be nasty and expensive and painful.

So, now you are basically trying to blackmail her into staying with you?

Cal, You are grasping so hard trying to control something in this situation and you can't. You can't make her see reason. You can't make her honor her vows to you. You can't make her feel what you want her to feel. You need to stop leading her by the nose until she says what you want to hear.

Back off and watch what she does. Not what she says. She is a proven liar and liars lie. She will continue to lie to you until she pulls her own head out of her own ass. You can't do it for her. You can't do the work to fix her brokenness. She is the only one who can do that. You need to step back and give her a chance to do it or not without you trying to control the outcome.

So, blah blah blah, the conversation ended pretty well

Go and re-read all your posts to date. ALL of your conversations with her seem to "have ended well". But each time she reveals herself to be a liar who continues to lie.

Wonder why she's so mad?

You already know the answer to your question.

No blackmail. Just listed possible choices and possible consequences for those choices. It's like this, she needs time to accept that fantasy land is over and done. I know she loves me and the kids. She just needs to let it go and come back to reality. And, you guys are right. I want her to chose us because its what she wants. That's why I'm practicing the 180. No texting or calling her while she's down south. If she wants to talk, she can call me. In the mean time, I'm gonna work on being a strong, happy man that is living in the present and looking forward to the future God has in store for me and my family.

Then I texted her and asked if she was upset

This is not 180 though. Don't contact her unless kids or emergencies.

I worry about doing a full 180 because everything that is listed on there is what got me into this mess in the first place. Not calling or texting her during the day, not taking her out, or paying attention to her, etc. Then this f*cking douche bag shows up and does all the things I wasn't doing and then some and then she falls for it. I don't want anything like that to ever happen again.

Sad reality is people need to hit a hard bottom to gain clarity and want to change. She keeps manipulating, and while understandable that you keep seeking a best practical solution, consensus does not work when the other person is in a fog. IMO you need to make everything contingent on honesty, and give her no angles to play. There are consequences for behavior, and she keeps trying to find a way around dealing with consequences for her actions.

For the 23 years I've known her, she's always had high morals, knew right from wrong, and always, (well, not always) chose to do right. She's always been honest too. For the last 3 months, I've seen her do thinkgs, I've never thought her capable of. I can't believe she got to the point where she thought adultery was justifyable and the amount of lies and deception she did. This is soooo not like her. Is she really a liar and a cheat or is it because she's in the fog? Can she change back to the person I once knew and have thsoe morals and honesty back?

Good morning calkid,

Is your WW remorseful and working to heal her M to you?

No, and this is why many are recommending the 180 for you. You are worried that implementing the 180, which is about taking care of you, not punishing her, will drive her away. The thing is she is already gone, she has been gone since well before dday.

I worry about doing a full 180 because everything that is listed on there is what got me into this mess in the first place.

No, it is not. Your WW looking for attention from OP to fill a hole within her is what got you into this situation. Your WW looking for attention from OM rather than address issues with you is what created this mess. Further, how much of your inattention was initiated by you unilaterally, and how much was in response to withdrawal by your WW? Early after dday I was blamed for a lot of bad behavior in the M, but in retrospect, much of that was a direct result of FWW’s shutting me out, ignoring my needs, blaming me for her issues, etc. Sure I often left her alone an enjoyed when she was gone, but that was self-preservation, not spitefulness.

For the last 3 months, I've seen her do thinkgs, I've never thought her capable of.

Who she is now is a part of who she has always been. Our perceptions shift, different facets of the personality come to the fore. This is why there is no “changing back” to the person you perceived before. This has always been a part of who she is. There is the possibility of change, learning new coping behaviors, recognizing harmful personality traits and behaviors and replacing them with healthier ones. It is difficult and hard to do, she has to want to do it, and the her you are seeing now will always be there inside of her.

Or, you can come back to the man that loves you more than anyone…

This is worth exploring. Why do you still feel this? She cheated on you, she lied, she continued contact through FB with pictures and memories of OM, she still is angry she is not allowed to talk wit OM.

How much longer til she comes out of the fog?

I really think that fog is an over-used term. It excuses behavior that is really inexcusable. She is not in a fog over OM. She is selfish and does not want to give up the fantasy of his attraction. She does not want to own what she did and who she demonstrated she was. She wants to continue to pretend you drover her to her A, that it was a special relationship with OM. That if not a lover, he was a fond friend. She likes seeing you constantly following up on her, pursuing her, expressing your love for her.

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:08 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)]

@Calkid

Can you imagine how much pain you'd endure had you not found SI?

Think about it.

Cal, you keep asking why she's doing this or that or the other thing. Listen, everything she's doing, EVERYTHING she's done, are all things that you've been told in this thread that she has done or will do or whatever. When she called Mr. D before she sent him those texts saying they can't be together anymore, you were warned that she would contact him either before or after she sent them. And she did! She's no different than any other WS on this forum, no different at all. She doesn't fart rainbows and pee sunshine just because she's been an amazing wife for 23 years... right now, she's a lying, cheating, selfish, foolish WS, just like the rest of the WS's are at this same point in infidelity.

I suggest that you reread this entire thread from start to finish, see where you've been told things that would/will/have/had happened and where they did in fact end up happening, and start taking the advice given. Who knows better how to get to the corner market then someone who's been there everyday for the past several weeks/months/years? We've all been to this market, we're trying to give you good directions, and you're just certain you know a shortcut. Sadly, there ARE no shortcuts to the market.

Cal

Look, we all have been there. We have all wanted to believe our WWs were different. They really were immediately remorseful. We were all going to win Powerball too.

No one can convince you what to do. But right now, and I know you sense this, you are making some pretty bad decisions regarding your wife.

There are some things you can do to help yourself while you decide on the best course of action for you.

First, talking to a lawyer to know what a divorce entails and following their advice about money and documenting your contribution to child care is NEVER a bad thing. Knowledge=power and brother you need some power.

Second, detach. You think you were an asshole and that is why she sucked some losers dick. NO. She sucked some losers dick because SHE WANTED TO. You did not make her do anything. All your recent "reattachment" to her just makes her think you are weak, she is in the drivers seat and can do with you what she wants. Well, SHE IS RIGHT. You need to extricate yourself from the line of fire and rationally assess the situation. YOU CANNOT DO THAT KISSING HER BEHIND.

Just so you know, while I am not a platitudes sort of guy, there are some things that are virtual universal truths. One of those truths is you cannot "NICE" a cheating wife back to you.

Now, once you have put yourself in a state of detachment from her drama, you will soon figure out that sharing her totally sucks.

You will know what to do then.

But in the meantime, YOUR failure to protect yourself (lawyer, knowledge, finances, detachment) is only hurting you. Not her.

Good luck and strength to you to figure out that you need to heal from this and that she is not going to help you do that.

I know you guys are getting frustrated with me. I've never been through anything like this before. I'm like a blind man feeling his way through the dark. You hear of stuff I've done and think, "Told ya that would happen" and so on. I am trying to do the 180. I let her call me. I don't call her. If I text her, its only to with business or the kids. My sis-in-law says I need to do a 90, not a 180. Because if I'm too cold or off limits, she'll just throw her hands up and say, well, see? I doesn't care about me anyway and wont' forgive me."

I stupidly told her about the 16 year old boy asking me if she cheated and that I told him the truth. That he was listening at my bedroom door while I was talking about it. Man, she went off the deep end. "I can't believe you told him the truth! Now he's gonna think I'm a slut!" I reassured her that he doesn't and that he's okay but she was not having any of it. Told SNL about this and she called her and basically told her, "You cant' be mad at Calkid. He didn't ask the boy to snoop around and find out what was going on. The boy heard him talking and knew, then you want him to lie to the boy and damage his relationship with him for you after what you've done? If you want to be mad at someone about the boy finding out, go look in the mirror." Anyway, she defused the situation, thank God. I think she is de-fogging guys. I've been watching her phone records and emails and haven't seen anything funny. I know she's having some issues letting go but she knows the right thing to do and I know she'll do it. Especially, once she weighs the options. We'll be in marriage counseling a while and work out our issues. I know you all think I'm a glutton for punishment and she's not worthy of it but I can't help but love her. She hasn't been acting very loveable lately, but I can't help my heart. Despite the love I have for her, I'm not going to be a fool. I'm taking control of this situation and my life and if she wants to be a part of it, then fine. If not, that sucks but that'll be her choice.