SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

IMO it's OK to have a 'business' contact without violating the spirit of NC.

In this case, if the authorities aren't interested, I'd limit the permissable contact to a snail-mail letter saying something like,

'You gave me scabies and herpes. You, your other partners, your children, their children, and others you come in contact with are at risk of contracting these diseases. Please ensure that each potential infectee sees a doctor.'

Alternatively, a letter to his BS, if any, could do what's necessary without breaking NC at all.

After poking around some more it seems to be more of a grey area wherein lifelong afflictions (ie. HIV, herpes) might be grounds for a civil suit for damages

Yes, that was on the website as well, but you caught the part about no law about notification as it regards herpes? She just wants to contact him again.

As for a lawsuit? Hell, take the rat bastard to small claims court for the doctor bills & projected medicine forward to the limit of small claims. That at least wouldn't have you paying totally out of your own pocket. (And if you've ever been to small claims court, the judge might even enjoy doing something outside of the mundane, hehe)

[This message edited by oldtimer97 at 6:39 PM, December 5th (Wednesday)]

She will feel the need to inform him on a personal level and take care of things that way.

Remember the alcoholic comparison?

If your “girlfriend” (and I would use that work loosely IMHO) insists on telling OM then she’s simply reaching for that favorite bottle of cognac she refused to pour down the sink when she “stopped” drinking last time.

OK – so she might only be looking at the bottle, sniffing at the cork. But still wishing to take a sip.

NO! If OM has to be told then you either simply lie to the clinic (yes – we had a lengthy conversation about herpes over a cup of java) or YOU simply phone him and tell him.

But then Larry… You two aren’t in reconciliation. So what does it matter if she does tell him?

Frankly – and Larry; this is actually the first time I digitally raise my voice at you – Even if she did tell him without your blessing… think it will change anything? You seem hell-bent on going down the absolute WORST path available for you. The path of ignoring the affair and the untreated infidelity and settling for limbo till the present turns into “normal”.

No Larry – once again. I am NOT telling you to throw her out. But GET HER TO COMMIT TO RECONCILIATION! The advice I gave you a long time ago about striping excuses? Larry - next time you use that method do so in front of a mirror.

Larry.

Stop.Coddling.Her.

In the real world, she would be appalled at all of this STD shit floating around your house and infecting her child. She would NOT be *insisting* on making a private phone call to Plaguey Pauly (love that moniker).

I would ask to be present when she does it but i highly doubt that she would agree to that, insisting on it being a "private" conversation, which is complete bull

**smacking myself in the forehead** W.T.F. is up with the *you highly doubt she would agree*??? So f'n what if she doesn't *agree*, Larry. That chick gave you herpes and scabies!!! How CONSIDERATE of YOU was that???

She is not EVER going to *wake up* if you just continue to sit back and watch.

(ok....I had to *step away* for a sec....)

Look, Larry. The medical facility that conducted the herpes test can tell you the *inform* law. If it is required that the previous partners are informed.....then provide them with OM's contact information. If they won't do it, then YOU send a letter to the POSOM with no return address that simply says "a person that has reported you as a previous partner is infected with herpes." Keep a copy.

Under NO circumstances should your WS make a *private* informational phone call to this guy. NONE. If she insists, then Hefty Bag her shit.

I am not sure if she HAS to make the call, WANTS to make the call, NEEDS to make the call or is USING the call, but if she insists on it being private, between her and nasty guy, then you have your answer to the question we all ask. Is it over? No, not even close.

When people show you who they are, believe them. Quit asking them to continue to parade themselves for you. See it, believe it, file it where you need to. Protect yourself and your sweet baby.

I'm going to put this as delicately as possible...

F*** THAT!

If she talks to him without you NC is broken...thank you for disrespecting our entire family one more time when you exposed us all and risked our health...now GTFO!

There is NO discussion. It's f'n "personal"??? How personal are the scabies she passed along to all of you? How personal is the type 1 you got? She feels "strongly"??? Her feelings do NOT get any priority whatsoever. For me....if she dared to even try to claim she, or OM, deserves any type of consideration for "privacy"...I'd let her know that it better be one hell of a conversation...because it destroyed any chance of the family staying under one roof.

Also please see a lawyer asap. You need to know your rights and how of this mess changes things. Endangering the health of your son and you and showing no real remorse for it on top of that, can significantly affect custody.

Well said!

Like gonnabe2016 said: STOP CODDLING HER

She not only banged OM with no protection, she freaking infected you and your innocent child with scabies and most likely herpes. WTF?

Then she has the nerve to NOT immediately go NC after D-Day and continues to pine after him. I simply cannot understand how you can put up with this. I've been married 23 years and two boys, the elder one is about to grad from college. For me, divorce would be complete financial devastation: foreclosure, bankruptcy, etc.

But if my fWW had done what yours is doing, I would kick her to the curb in a heartbeat, no questions asked. I respect myself too much to be a chump.

None of what you demand should be negotiable. Either she complies or you kick her to the curb. No more rugsweeping.

One last thing LastChanceLarry, your anger is misplaced and the title of your thread is wrong.

The OM is dirty, yes, but he didn't infect your family. Your WW did. It was your WW who spread her legs for the OM and continued to cling to the OM even after D-Day. Think about it.

I think she is hoping the tests come back positive,so she has an excuse to contact him.

Which makes her a very sick person.

As long as you continue to settle for crumbs,crumbs is all you will ever get.

Larry, my WH isn't the model of a remorseful WS. By far. But he is light years ahead of your WW.

You need to get angry with HER. SHE infected you AND your child,FFS!! And,Larry,you said her last sexual encounter with OM was a month ago. Your d-day was in August. She has continued to cheat. You are allowing this to continue. And now your CHILD is suffering physically because his mother is whoring around. Are you going to protect this child? WHO is protecting this child??

Sorry for the 2x4,but as a mother I can't just not say anything. Your dirty WW has infected your family.

[This message edited by confused615 at 6:02 AM, December 6th (Thursday)]

I had a quick chat with WS this morning as we were getting ready for work and i told her about the research i had done and that she was under no legal obligation to inform OM of STD. At first she put up a little resistance by saying she still wants to inform him for the sake of whoever he sleeps with next and she was very quick to shoot down my suggestion that i send the message for her however she didn't have any arguments about having the clinic inform or some other non-direct approach.

I told her the key was that we inform him in a way that doesn't make me feel uncomfortable and she accepted that in a sort of "ok, fine, we'll do it your way" sort of manner.

I'm sure we'll be talking about it again sometime soon, once she gets the official test results and this becomes more of a reality.

You need to get angry with HER.

I know, i haven't shown much anger at all since DDay and it's a big problem for me. I make things too comfortable for her at home and i'm so scared of pushing her away that i let he walk all over me. The A is over, that's a fact, and she has kept with NC for the since 11/22/12 AFAIK so i feel pretty safe in saying that the A is really over. Does she miss OM? Sure. Does she still want to be with him after everything? Probably. But as everyone keeps saying, actions speak louder than words, and her actions show that she is with me at home with our family and even though she isn't working on her own issues just yet she is at least making some effort to keep a "normal" home. I know it's probably more rug sweeping than anything else but i still see some progress either way.

Ok, now that i'm done t/j my own thread..

~Larry out

So my experience with just letting things settle back to normal is that after a couple of weeks, the WS gets "comfortable" as the action appeared to have no consequences. Renewed contact with the OP is sure to follow. Unremorseful WS seem to love to cake eat. Rugsweeping is not a long term solution.

Lastchancelarry: I am sorry but I believe you have a world of hurt ahead of you.

But as everyone keeps saying, actions speak louder than words, and her actions show that she is with me at home with our family and even though she isn't working on her own issues just yet she is at least making some effort to keep a "normal" home. I know it's probably more rug sweeping than anything else but i still see some progress either way.

Yes we are not in your home but from what you just wrote it seems like your idea of progress is things getting back to the status quo around the house just like PRE-A. This is a rescipe for disaster.

Status quo means some small peace and familiarity for the BS for a short time but for the WS it's justification or FOG reinforcement that the A's where the right way to go since nothing has really changed in the household.

Your WW is already testing the limits of your boundaries just seeing how far she can push them. She will continue to do so and eventually make contact again because by your own words:

I make things too comfortable for her at home and i'm so scared of pushing her away that i let he walk all over me.

She needs to be uncormfortable or she has no incentive to change. Love has to be tough. By making it easy for her, she is slowly losing any respect for you she still may have had (she may not have any, she did cheat on you remember). The status quo/rugsweeping does not initiate any change in either of you. Status quo is what lead to the A. Eventually the black hole is going to open up in her again and she will see OM again, find another OM, or she will leave you since she can't find her happiness in her situation.

I hope that's not the case but considering what she has done to you and your child with the infection she doesn't sound very remorseful and still in the fog. You can't monitor her forever and the anxiety will build in you. You need to throw the doormat out now and start laying down the rules immediately. If she can't follow the boundaries you put in place now and leaves, guess what, she was going to leave at some point anyway.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:48 AM, December 7th (Friday)]

I'm worried about that possibility, too. I don't want her to get comfortable just yet because of how much work there is for us in the future and i know that this is just going to lead me to potential disaster. I've needed several 2x4s and a LOT of verbal beatings from folks like Bigger and Confused (seriously, thanks guys!) in order to help make what little progress i have to show. I'm gearing myself up for a real sit down with WS to explain how "this" really isn't fixing anything and how her lack of effort is just going to ruin whatever chance we have left.

This stuff is probably better posted under my other thread, i don't want this one getting too off topic..

~Larry out

She needs to be uncormfortable or she has no incentive to change

Stop being so *nice*, Larry. Put on your bitch boots and start making some REAL PROGRESS!!!!

Larry, let me share two stories with you. Both are stories I am intimately familiar with, one is mine, and one is a relatives.

Mine:

WH cheated for several years, I had no idea what was going on as he hid it so well and never acted differently towards me. DDay came, I stumbled upon all the evidence on my own. Kicked WH out immediately, ended up letting him stay the 2nd night when he injured himself at my house and he literally couldn't walk, much less drive. I never let up on him though, we talked for hours upon hours, I cried, I showed all my emotions, there was no way that he could leave any conversation with me not KNOWING how I was feeling. I let it all out. He responded by doing the same, let out all of his shame, guilt, fear, etc. We spent a loooong time doing this, I would say a couple of years honestly. My H did everything right during those years, open, honest, transparent, and he did the really hard work. Fast forward to almost 5 years later, and we are happy together. We are in love, we respect each other, and we are behaving like we did when we were newly married.

Relatives story:

The WS was the wife, the husband was the BS. BH stumbles upon information that leads him to believe his WW is cheating on him.... again. He finally confirms this info, and WW is furious at him for finding out. BH doesn't want to push WW away or make her angry, so he coddles her, lets her have her freedom, doesn't demand passwords or anything from her. She takes this freedom as him not caring. She takes her A underground. She later moves out to "find herself and figure out what she wants" and tells him it's killing her to move and she's leaving all she's ever wanted, but she needs to get her head straight. She moves out, and moves her AP right in. Her AP has a job where he works out of town a lot, so she feels lonely. She calls her BS to go on dates with her, but he's not willing to be at her beck and call either, so she gets a 2nd AP to pick up the slack. Yep, she's sleeping with 3 guys now! After several months of doing this, BH finally grows a small spine and tells her she needs to move home and work on the family, or he'll divorce her and keep the kids. She reluctantly moves back. BH thinks she's no longer seeing her AP's, however she has a joint bank account with the first AP still, and she leaves for the weekend to go "horse riding" and her cell phone "doesn't work" at the ranch.... this is where she meets up with 2nd AP for weekend romps. BH continues to let her live her life like this, demanding nothing from her because he doesn't want to anger her and "push her away". After another six months or so, she finally tells BH that she's leaving him, only now that she's been back in the house, she has a better shot at getting as much custody of the kids as he does.... he would have been better off if he filed before she moved back because she would have been the abandoning parent in their state. They will be divorcing very soon.

So, look at those two stories, look at the similarities and differences to yours, and figure out which one is going to serve you better. IMHO, if a person has to walk on egg shells to keep their spouse happy, then their spouse isn't really happy to begin with and you would probably be happier living in a different situation, but that's just me.

"Private Conversation".

Get the fucking net.

I'd say AT BEST he knows he has HSV, she knew he had HSV and she doesn't want you to know they both knew.

I have it myself - nice little gift from monster which he knew about but didn't tell me until we'd been sleeping together for months. I've only had 2 breakouts - one during my first pregnancy which is dangerous. Fucktard - sorry about the t/j.

Anyway. Um, fuck no she doesn't get to decide this and I can tell you her reaction sets of a Hiroshima of red flags to me. Last NC broken in November? Fuck.That.Shit.

And FTG(irl).

p.s. if that pig or his sows had given ANY diseases to my girls there would have been hell to pay. I am so very sorry friend. I honestly don't know how you get past this shit. Either of you.

ETA I just saw that you're not actually in R (by that I mean False R because if you were in are that's what this would be).

Dude, I don't know what else needs to happen for you to fuck her off and never look back. How bad does it need to get?

[This message edited by StrongButBroken at 3:51 AM, December 8th (Saturday)]

Larry, I've been staring at my iPad for the past five minutes with a blank look on my face, trying to figure out what to say to you.

I'll give it my best shot here:

Do you see any love coming in your direction from your wSO?

Do you see heartfelt remorse with tears flowing?

Are you the type of person that REALLY doesn't like to lose, because it seems like you are trying to win R here, at any cost.

You seem to enjoy this whole process. The drama, the posts, the advice, the control being exerted, the adrenaline, the stories shared. Is that right? Sometimes it seems like you're playing chess.

What is your wSO getting out of your relationship right now? Why is she still there? She doesn't seem to like you very much.

What makes you think there is a lot of work ahead for the two of you? You can't do it all. Do you think she's going to do her share?

This may be hard to hear, but your xSO sounds more like a prisoner than anything else. My guess is she is planning her escape.

What is it about your wSO that you love so much? ...top three things.

Do you think you're the smartest guy in the room?

When you and your wSO talk, honestly, what percentage of the time do you spend talking?

Misc. questions above are intended for you and are not my desiring an answer.

[This message edited by nomistakeaboutit at 7:47 PM, December 8th (Saturday)]

Larry,

For some reason your case keeps coming up in my mind. I can’t really put my finger on why. In some ways I’m so infuriated because you are making progress but I’m afraid it’s progress controlled completely by your GF. In some ways it’s because you sound as if you “get it” but don’t react as if you do. In some ways it’s because I really think you have a 99.9% salvageable situation but you seem determined to go the 0.1% route. In some ways it’s like I’m reaching out to a drowning man and making contact with his hand but he always refuses to grasp it…

Let me be very clear on one thing: Everything and all I suggest is based on YOU saving your relationship.

Larry – You need to get angry.

Let’s take the scabs. In a sense you were lucky. That could have been something immensely worse. OK – granted as far as STD’s go then scabs transmits relatively easily but that could have been syphilis. That could have been HIV. That could have been gonorrhea. That could have been something that your GF could innocently enough have transmitted to your son or you.

I know what you are thinking. These things don’t transmit so easy. Biggers being dramatic. And in a sense that’s true. A parent with HIV won’t transmit the disease with some elementary precautions and the others are easily treatable. But what IF she had contacted son’s eyes or nose? What if son didn’t take to the treatment? What if he was permanently impaired because of her risk?

OK – so how would you react if she drove around town with him sitting loose in the car? How would you react if HER actions placed HIM in danger?

If that doesn’t get you worried Larry then you better evaluate your role as a father…

And the Larry the HPV…

I don’t get it… You two have been an item for some time and now she realizes she has it? Yes I know it can be dormant for years but still… Now? How come you don’t have it? How come it didn’t come to light during pregnancy, OBY tests and all that? How come you have had all those years without it ever being an issue?

I guess there might be numerous reasons but to me in my simple world the obvious answer looks best:

Because that was one more gift from OM.

A man with scabs. A man you say sleeps around. A man with such low morals that he cheats with another man’s GF. Is it way out there to imagine this sort of person could be spreading one of the most common STD’s? The type that is really easily contained with a combination of restraint and precautions? And then she wants to warn him…

Larry – He IS the carrier. He IS the guy that should have called your GF telling her he has HPV and warning her.

And Larry – remember this: If you two stay together you will have to learn to live with a constant reminder of her affair. Your sex-life from now on to eternity has to take into account her HPV. (It’s not really a big deal – simple precautions if and when it’s active).

Larry – Anger shows passion. Lack of anger… well that shows lack of passion and lack of commitment. Controlled anger is what you need. You need to make it very clear to your GF that you want a family but it has to be based on mutual respect and reasonable boundaries. She has to see that you care, that you have passion for the relationship. Even if that passion is so intense that you are willing to end it if she doesn’t get on board.

Without that passion… Well Larry – in her shoes I would be looking at you and wondering whether you care at all. Whether by committing to you she is entering a mediocre, no excitement but comfortable relationship she could live with but not want. I would worry that she’s still there because she thinks she has no options. That she’s there because of pity… Whatever. I would worry she isn’t there for the right reasons and therefore you two are doomed to repeat all this sometime down the line.

Treat it now Larry. Fix your relationship and save it. 99.9% odds… that’s good.

And if by chance you land in that 0.1%... Well it sure as h@ll beats a new d-day.

[This message edited by Bigger at 5:18 AM, December 10th (Monday)]

nomistake - your post got to me and i will respond to you through my other thread since i worry about this one getting derailed, please check there. (http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=476562&HL=37322). See you on the other side

Bigger - We are past the point where she feels the need to tell him. We talked some more the other day and she has agreed to let me handle communication to OM in a way that i find appropriate. Most likely i'll have the clinic inform him since it feels like the most direct yet impersonal way and as much as i want to throw this in his face (one of his texts referred to his body as his temple or some crap and he takes his personal health VERY seriously) i would think that a cold, hard, "you've been informed, good day", would work just as well.

To make a few things clear..

WS has scabies, she caught it from OM during their very last encounter (which at first she denied, then denied they had sex, and now admits to everything.. well DUH!) and now i have it and so does my son. We are in the middle of treatment and trying to disinfect our home by cleaning/washing every little thing that touches our bodies, we even took bleach baths last night which at the very least helped with the symptoms.

I have type 1 HSV (herpes, not HPV), WS most likely does too but she is still waiting on her test results. WS admits to having an extremely mild outbreak shortly after she and i started dating (doctor convinced her it was nothing and never did any testing). She never said anything to me about it. I, too, had a very mild outbreak very early in our relationship and never said anything to WS (looks like we're both filthy liars). I was terrified and made sure we didn't do anything sexual at that time and promised myself that if it ever came back i would tell her. Well, it didn't. Over the next few years i convinced myself that it was nothing and that if it was something well, she certainly would have caught it by now so it was a moot point. Fast forward to now and after getting all of this out with her i find that we are both being supportive and taking responsibility for not telling the other. She is not blame shifting or rug sweeping this in the least, we both just want to feel better and move on with our lives.

So if anything, if she has HSV then she most likely gave it to OM without knowing it. Serves the fucker right! I shouldn't be thinking that, but what the hell, the A will affect me for my whole life and now i know it will affect him too and serve as a reminder of how much a disgusting homewrecker he is!

On the very off chance that WS is not infected, well then i will say a little prayer of thanks and devote my life to making sure she never gets it.

Oh and the icing here? WS says that she never would have slept with OM if she knew that she had a STD! Of course, no way of telling if that would have really been the case but she seems pretty adamant that she wouldn't have done anything with him.

Overall, we're dealing with it. She has had several appointments with doctors and dermatologists for both her and my son. I don't have a PCP in the area so i am working in that first before i can get myself checked by a dermatologist. In the meantime i have been piggybacking on her medications and lotions (they give her plenty to spare) and reading TONS of articled online on how to clean your home and prevent reinfection. So far, things have been improving although i have heard stories of people having scabies for years and getting reinfected somehow every 3-4 months.

Thankfully, my son doesn't seem to be too affected by the mites. He has the symptoms but doesn't seem bothered by them or even itchy at all. It's still heartbreaking to see the little bumps all over his legs and feet, he has it worse than i do..

WS has shown significant remorse lately, i guess as the reality sets in and she is talking about it more openly with me she has been getting in touch with her emotions and letting it out, little by little. The whole situation sucks but it's nice to see some sort of reaction from her.

~Larry out

Sorry I didn't read all the responses, but if the tests come back positive this is what I would send to OM.

Thank you for giving me herpes. DO NOT ever, ever contact me again.

Obviously if she has herpes and she slept with OM then he already knows he has herpes, unless she is sleeping with many men.

I am sorry you are going through this.

OK Larry - that’s good news. And it‘s also good to see that you sound pissed at my post. Good to see reaction.

I am truly relieved that there is a past to the HSV. Frankly – you don’t need a constant reminder of OM. And sorry for mixing up my diseases; mites/scabs, hsv/HPV…

But the tone of my advice still stands. At some point you need to make your GF tell you in a very clear and verbal way that she’s with you because she wants to, that she acknowledges the risk she took for her, yours and sons health, that she acknowledges that having an affair is not the way to solve issues.

Now – you are there. All we have is the info you give us. You are possibly in the best place to evaluate the speed you need to progress at, but at the same time your proximity to the problem might also blind you to what’s really going on. You really need to be awake to make sure that you progress and that you progress in the correct direction.