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Motherofboys,

Your post breaks my heart. I can literally feel your pain. I am so, so sorry.

My husband didn't have a traditional affair but I was painfully TT'ed too. First it was "only texting", then it was "two women for ONS's", then it was actually "4 women". I vomited, fainted and curled up in a ball and wanted to die many days. The exhaustion is beyond what anyone can imagine. With children to raise it is 1000x more! I think the only thing that kept me going was the fact that my kid needed to eat and I had to feed him. He ate so many rotisserie chickens and bagged salad. I ate almost nothing and lost a lot of weight.

If you do want to try R, it will be so hard. D is hard too. But if you want to R, you will need to know that the TT is done! TT is like a poison drip feed, it's also like knowing there is a demon around every corner, waiting to hit you with another 2 x 4.

Get him polygraphed, make sure you are at ground zero if you want to R. You have to know that it's all out. Polys are essential to R, IMHO.

But everyone else here is right too, when they say you can't R in a marriage where only one person is committed to it. Sounds like he is far from being out of the fog, like he is not committed to being a safe, loving H yet. I'm sorry.

Just run.

MOB, I'm sorry if you were upset by my post when you were trying to vent. I have been here a few years and I have seen many posters use their exhaustion and wishes for it go away as a crutch that keeps them from getting out of infidelity and puts them in to a much worse position later on when months have gone by and they're still stuck in the same place. Typically the best outcomes even for R are from a BS who acts decisively soon after DDay and stands up for themselves but that doesn't mean you shouldn't go at your own pace if you struggle to get out of bed. Everyone here has gone through infidelity and it is terrible and exhausting to be in pain daily. At some point, we have all had to push through and take that next step.

I'd refuse to even have a conversation with your WH until he passes a poly-

1. OW Name, address, phone and spouse's name

2. All names of all OW

Change the locks, let him know where and when to meet you for the poly if he is interested in talking to you.

I'm in no way saying any answer to any of your questions will be the golden ticket to R, but you just can't even begin to consider R till he does a cranial-rectal extraction. I,m so sorry he is being such an ass-hat.

MOB, how are you doing? Thinking about you!

Thank you for all the support and words of wisdom. I wish none of us had to be here, but I am grateful to have the support of people who understand what I'm going through.

Do you know those Facebook notifications that show your posts from the past? I used to love those things. Little reminders of things I said, things I was doing, and pictures of good times we were having. What a fun and happy thing. That is until you discover that your past is a lie concocted by an unfaithful partner. Now when those notifications show up I am looking at my memories and trying to adjust them to what I now know. See that picture of us on vacation? I'm smiling because I'm unaware my husband was having sex with another woman just a few weeks earlier. See that post about an awesome girls weekend? Too bad I didn't know that he was sexting her the entire time I was gone. There's a picture of us together looking happy. But now I know it was a complete lie.

I hate how he's ruined so many good memories. I hate looking at pictures of a happy family and feeling nothing but sadness.

((Hugs)) I'm sorry you're hurting. Are you in individual counseling? Is your husband? What's he doing to help you feel safe?

[This message edited by Forks027 at 3:11 AM, August 19th (Saturday)]

Duplicate. Sorry.

[This message edited by Forks027 at 3:11 AM, August 19th (Saturday)]

When I wrote my initial post I left a lot of stuff out. I only had a certain amount of time to sit down and write, and I didn't want the post to go on and on forever. I stuck to the major part of the story -- my husband's long-term affair with a woman I did not know. But at the very same time, there was more going on. This is the stuff I want to write about today.

Before I discovered my husband's infidelity, there was a rumor floating around that he was having an affair with a woman he worked with. She and her husband were our friends. We hung out all the time and because they didn't have any children of their own they enjoyed spoiling my kids as if they were their aunt and uncle. My kids love them. Because of this, I didn't believe the rumor at all. How ludicrous to think that a woman who came to my house, ate dinner at my table, bought presents for my kids, and shared her thoughts and feelings with me as a friend would have the nerve to have a secret relationship with my husband. People just don't do that kind of stuff . . . or so I thought.

After I discovered my husband's affair, I started to re-think these rumors. I started to re-think their relationship. Obviously, I was on high-alert regarding his relationship with any woman, so their friendship was on my radar. Also, I began reading posts on this site that detailed men having affairs with their wives' friends and I came to the realization that it was totally possible that my husband and my friend were cheating behind my back.

Almost immediately after looking for evidence of an affair, I found a text message from her to him that said she was unhappy at work, wanted to move away from the community, and that her job wasn't worth all the BS she had to endure. She ended the text by saying, "You are worth it all." My blood ran cold and I knew something was going on between them. I confronted him, but of course he denied any wrongdoing. He insisted there was nothing going on and that he didn't know why she wrote that or what she meant by it. In light of the other affair he understood why I was bothered by it, but swore I had nothing to worry about. I wasn't convinced, so we took it to our therapist to get her opinion. She told him in no uncertain terms that even if there was nothing going on, his responsibility was to make me feel safe and confident in our relationship. He needed to cut ties with this woman and never give me another reason to doubt him. He promised that would happen. It didn't.

Over the next few weeks I continued looking for evidence. I could not find any hard evidence, but I did find a few things that made me uncomfortable. He would send her daily inspirational quotes or she would text him in the middle of the night. Nothing romantic or sexual, but still . . . I didn't like it and I told him so. It needed to stop. He promised he would stop texting her, but then I discovered that they had just switched to email. Upon checking his phone I would see that he had called her, but then he would lie right to my face about it. I called him out on it every time, but he always had an excuse or a story. He continued to swear that she was just a friend.

I don't know why I never thought of it before, but a month or so after I became suspicious of them (and three months after I discovered his affair with the other one) I figured out that I could go online and look at phone and text records. In hindsight, I should have done that first, but I think a lot of you will understand that you're not always thinking straight when you're dealing with an unfaithful partner. Anyway, I opened up his phone records (I was able to look back over 18 months worth of phone calls and 3 months worth of texts) and OH MY GOD!! Hundreds of phone calls between him and my "friend". Hundreds!! Sometimes as many as 15 in one day. 40 over the course of 3 days. Calls in the middle of the day, calls in the middle of the night. Phone calls while we were on our family vacation!!! Calls that lasted just a few minutes to calls that lasted for hours. And then there were the times he called her and she didn't answer, so he kept calling her over and over, leaving one voicemail message after another like a lovesick teenager. I could not even wrap my brain around how many phone calls I was seeing. He would go out of town for work and call her 20 times. My number would show up once or twice. I was sick and I was furious and I was humiliated.

Again, I confronted him immediately. I yelled and screamed and threatened, but his story never changed. They are just friends. They were just talking. He is committed to us and our marriage. In order to drive my point home that this was completely inappropriate behavior between two people who are married to two other people, I printed out all the phone records and highlighted each and every call. That visual was hard to deny. And so he finally admitted that it was inappropriate and maybe it was an emotional affair. He continued to insist that nothing physical had taken place and that he had no feelings for her, but yes, he had relied on her in an emotional way and turned to her instead of me for his emotional needs. It also became apparent that he had confided to her about our marital struggles.

I was, and continue to be, furious about this. They were carrying on right underneath my nose and I never suspected. Even if it wasn't physical (and I'm still not convinced that it wasn't) it was wrong. And thinking about it was driving me crazy. I made myself sick wondering what the real story was. Had it become physical? Was he in love with her? Were they plotting to be together? Or were they content to just keep sneaking around? It took a few weeks with our new therapist, but he finally admitted that at one time he had actually hit on her and was interested in getting her to sleep with him. A year or so before, the woman he had been having an affair with had cut him off so he was basically looking for a new affair partner and this friend was the one he chose. He claims he tried several times to "put the moves on her" but she always rejected him. Finally, he gave up and was satisfied with just being friends. After he told me that, I confronted her. If she was truly my friend, why didn't she tell me that he was acting inappropriately to her? Why didn't she warn me what he was up to? If there was nothing going on between them, why didn't she tell me? Her excuses were lame. "I didn't know he was actually hitting on me. I thought it was just the alcohol talking. I didn't want to ruin our friendship." Blah, blah, blah. What difference does it make now anyway? We have both moved to different towns, hours apart, and I never have to see her again if I don't want to. Go ahead and apologize, honey, if it makes you feel better. I need to concentrate on dealing with my lying, cheating husband.

So here's the part where it just keeps getting worse. Three weeks ago my husband comes home all shook up and nervous, practically in tears. He tells me that this "friend" sent him three text pictures of herself in her underwear. WTF?? He shows them to me and sure enough, there are three (not very flattering) pictures of her body in just her underwear. Immediately after sending them she writes that it was a complete accident. She intended to send them to her husband. She also texts me to apologize and say it was a giant mistake. Then her husband texts my husband to say it was a mistake, please delete them and forget it ever happened. My husband is distraught because he knows this will set us back a million paces. He knows just how suspicious it looks. And I am suspicious. But because he immediately told me about it and because he seems genuinely innocent of this particular wrongdoing, I do not get upset. I do, however, file this information away just in case it comes in handy later.

Earlier this week, she did it again. She sent him a picture of herself "by accident". This time she had all of her clothes on. It was just a normal looking selfie. After sending it, she again immediately apologized. She claims she was trying to send it to her sister to show her the shirt she was wearing. He also told me about it right away. I told him that I thought it was pretty weird that she kept "accidentally" texting him. He agreed. I told him that you would think someone in her position would be more careful. He agreed. I wondered aloud if it wasn't so "accidental" at all. Maybe she was trying to communicate with him in some way for some reason. He said he didn't know. So I started looking at that picture and I noticed something that struck me as strange. She claims she was trying to show her sister her shirt, but you can hardly see her shirt. You can see that she's wearing a shirt, but it's not obviously a picture to show it off. I did notice, however, that she's wearing a necklace. I zoomed in on it. It seems like the necklace is displayed pretty prominently. More so than her shirt anyway. And in that moment I knew. I just knew. I knew with every fiber of my being that my husband had bought her that necklace.

And so I asked him, point blank, "Did you buy her that necklace?" And he said no. So I asked him again. And he got a funny look on his face but again said no. So I asked him to swear on the lives of our children and he didn't answer. So I asked again. And again. Until finally he admitted that yes, he bought her that necklace. He bought it for her in July when I was out of town. He bought it for her and gave it to her in secret. And he swears that he only bought it for her because she is his friend and we were moving away and he wanted to say goodbye and thank you for all the things she had done for us and our kids and it was meant to be some sort of closure or some bullshit like that. And I don't care why he bought it or what he was thinking because ultimately it comes down to the fact that he bought her an expensive piece of jewelry behind my back at a time when he knew I was suspicious of their relationship and he was trying to convince me that there was nothing going on between them and that he was committed to our marriage. And what kind of idiot claims that he's going to be more trustworthy at the same time that he's sneaking around behind his wife's back to buy things for another woman. And why? Why would he buy it for her? Let's assume that he's telling the truth and he just bought it to say thank you and goodbye, WHY would be put our marriage at risk for that? When we were already struggling with his infidelity? When we had already agreed that his relationship with her was inappropriate? When he knew how threatened I was by her? When he knew how mad I would be if I found out? When he knew this would set back any progress that we had made towards reconciliation? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY??????

Is he still lying to me? Or is he just THAT stupid? Or maybe I'm the stupid one? I just cannot figure him out, and this time while he's crying and begging and pleading and making new promises, I just feel exhausted and empty. None of it makes any sense and I'm sick and tired of trying to make it make sense. I'm sick of his excuses and I'm sick of trying to decipher what he's saying. Was it an emotional affair that continued right through to this day? Was it ever physical? Does he love her? Does he love me? Is he a sociopath? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON AND HOW THE HELL DID I GET HERE??

And just in case you're curious, her response when confronted was completely laughable. That necklace wasn't a gift from him, it was a gift from all of us (even though only he signed his name to the card). When she said, "Thanks for everything," that meant the necklace, too (when I asked why she never thanked me for it if she thought it was from me). She had never shown it to me before because she rarely wears it and had never mentioned it because we only saw each other a few times since then (even though we had seen each other at least four times since he gave it to her AND texting a thank you is a totally appropriate thing to do if you don't see someone face to face).

I call bullshit on everything she said and I haven't spoken to her in days. And I won't either because she is not my problem. He is my problem. And I really don't know where to go from here. Sick of the lies. Sick of the secrets. Sick of him putting other people's wants and needs before my own (I told him that buying her a present in secret, even if it was just to say thank you, was clearly putting her friendship before our marriage). Sick of everything. Even sick of myself.

Thanks for reading and letting me vent.

It's safe to assume at this point that he is a full blown liar.

The question is, how much will you tolerate before you draw the line? What are his consequences after being caught over and over? With each chance you give him, he sh!ts all over them.

His words don't mean anything at this point. You could operate under the assumption that they were physical and start protecting yourself. You cannot reconcile with someone who continues to lie and give you lip service. It just won't work.

[This message edited by Forks027 at 12:04 PM, September 15th (Friday)]

Please don't be sick of yourself. You're lovely. I've never met you, but I know it's true.

But yes, be sick of your husband. Because I think he is so sick that there's no fixing this, not unless he can somehow go from his tiny, shrunken Grinch-sized heart to the heart of a person with real ownership and empathy. The fact that he would wage battle over every single detail when he is obviously, obviously cheating with both these women and who knows who else, and that he would decide he's going to go down with the ship rather than give you the dignity of the truth shows you that there's no remorse or ownership there.

Where do you go from here? You see a lawyer. You detach. You stop thinking about each detail as a battle to fight and you start looking at the big picture ... he is an unremorseful cheater and he will never own up to anything he doesn't have to, even if it means insulting your intelligence and eroding any chance of trust between you two.

The only chance for saving your marriage is to be willing to lose it. Do you want to discover yet another smoking gun and have him convince you that it's not really smoke, it's fog, and sure it's his gun, but he really bought it for you, or it's someone else's gun, or blah blah f*cking blah? How dare he? How dare he insult your intelligence with the world's most ridiculous lies?

Personally, I would stop engaging him in conversation about anything other than essentials and the kids. I would see a lawyer. I would ask for a separation. If he wants to fight for the marriage, he can do IC, full transparency, a polygraph, and anything else you deem worthy. But I would get out of this limbo that must be so tiring for you. Just get out. Show him you mean business. Show him you won't let him waste another second of your precious life listening to his lies.

And when he begs and cries and accuses you of being a big meanie for not being OK with being married to an unrepentant liar and cheater, just say, "Do you really want to go there?" and then leave the room.

Hang in there. You are faithful and honest and a good friend, so you cannot comprehend the actions of others here. And that's OK. You don't have to. You just have to understand that your husband is not a safe partner while he continues to lie, and he shows no evidence of wanting to stop or being able to stop, so you remove yourself from the partnership out of self-preservation. You deserve sanity and calm and respect and the TRUTH.

[This message edited by swmnbc at 12:05 PM, September 15th, 2017 (Friday)]

Lawyer.

I can almost guarantee it was physical.

Even if it wasn't, who cares? He betrayed you and lied again and again and again.

Why is her number not blocked from his phone? If she were blocked, she couldn't "accidentally" send texts and pictures meant for someone else.

Your husband had an affair. He hid it from you. You just had a major round of trickle truth. He is not honest with you until you find the evidence yourself.

Will you ever know if it were physical? Likely not because he will lie lie lie. FYI: Cheaters lie. They lie and say it wasn't physical or there was just one kiss, etc. They even say the sex only lasted a few minutes because they felt guilty. Realistically those are minimizing their involvement.

Your WH has minimized his relationship with the OW and she has done the same. Neither of them will admit to anything you don't have rock solid evidence of.

Wow, what a liar. I wouldn't trust him if he said the sky is blue!

Get him polygraphed, make sure you are at ground zero if you want to R.

Why waste the money on an inaccurate, unreliable test when she has plenty of actual, reliable PROOF he is lying all the time? And as for R, um no, this guy is not remorseful. Staying with him is an option, putting up with it is an option, but I would not use the word reconciliation with that.

Why is her number not blocked from his phone? If she were blocked, she couldn't "accidentally" send texts and pictures meant for someone else.

This is EXACTLY why I never asked my H to change phone numbers or block anybody, EVER! If the number was blocked, she would have tried other more sneaky methods to get the picture to him and MOB would not have known as soon!

MY policy is that I'm not going to police my H or even the whore who tried to break up our M. By keeping this rather easy for her to contact if she was ever going to, I'd most likely find out about it, and that is the way I want it. Always.

I would use the polygraph as a conversation stopper, not necessarily as a tool to get to reconciliation. This man is a skilled and constant liar. Anything MOB says to question him, he will just turn around on her. That's when she says, "I won't discuss this. You can take a polygraph if you want me to believe you." She needs tools to stop the endless conversations where he tries to twist the facts into a pretzel resembling something that might be believable.

So when he says, "But I told you that the necklace was a harmless gift from all of us!" I would just say, "That is impossible to believe. You can take a polygraph if you want me to believe it wasn't a physical affair." Switch the status quo from being innocent until caught in the act to guilty until you've proven your innocence. Because the facts all point to guilty. So stop wasting my time.

MotherofBoys I am so sorry for what you are going though.

Sick of everything. Even sick of myself.

There is a point when a WS takes things far beyond just constant lies. On this site, this is commonly referred to as gaslighting. The name comes from the 1944 movie titled Gaslight, where the husband is trying to convince his wife that she is crazy. This is indirectly what your WH is doing to you to protect his secret other life.

Here's the rub, your WH knows you better than anyone else and how to manipulate you. He is, in effect, using your own love and compassion for your family against you. In my mind, this is one of the most emotionally painful and damaging things that one spouse can do to another. It shows he has little respect for you or your family. Due to his lack of respect, your WH has seriously underestimated your intelligence and knowledge of his psyche.

Based on what you have posted, I am very concerned with the emotional stress this is placing you under; especially given your strong feelings about keeping your family together. You are to be commended for staying so strong and supportive to this point. However, if possible, it may be time for you to seek an IC to help you with the decisions going forward.

At this point, you don't need to dig any further into your WS's affair. You know what you're dealing with now. Your WH has revealed his true self to you. He, clearly has little moral boundaries when it comes to fidelity or honesty. Keep in mind, his words are only poison and only intended to manipulate you further.

I can very much relate to the mental exhaustion you are feeling. My wife gaslighted me for almost 3 years before admitting to an affair. My advice is to just take a break from the affair for a while. You really don't have to do anything right now. Stop digging and stop trying to fix things. For now, just go on cruise control and look after yourself and your boys until you're rested enough to deal with your marriage (some good advice can be found by looking up what is called the 180). The only immediate actions I would recommend are: STD Testing, no sex with your WH, get plenty of exercise, and eat healthy.

When you feel up to it, go talk to a lawyer and learn your options for Divorce. That doesn't mean you are divorcing, it just means you are learning all your options.

Sending you strength.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 12:55 PM, September 15th (Friday)]

Swmnbc has given great advice. Your H is a chronic liar. At this point contact her husband with the necklace issue. He deserves to know this even if he is willing to rugsweep in his own marriage. She is absolutely not worth your time, she is a proven liar and has been manipulating you as well.

Just for kicks perhaps bringing him to a surprise polygraph appointment would bring forth a parking lot confession. He keeps lying unless you have proof. You deserve more and so do your kids.

Oh my God, are they gaslighting you, and they're not very good at it! Of course the necklace was from him, because they had a full blown A. She never thanked you because she came up with the excuse on the fly.

I don't think that you will ever get the truth out of your husband. And honestly, you probably don't know everything that he has done. One thing in your favor is that he and OW are too stupid to use cheating apps and alternate methods to continue to get away with it, so at least you can track it if you care to.

Yes, without a doubt, to STD testing. Sadly, the people whe engage in As have shown us they have little sexual boundaries. This translates to high risk sex partners. I was infected by my own husband. So were many other BSs here on SI. Please, please, please get tested and do not have sex with him until he does.

Also, send phone records and the receipt for the necklace to her husband. Don't tell your WS bc he will warn AP and she will make up some story about how crazy jealous you are about an innocent gift. It isn't innocent. You know this in your gut. That should blow things up enough over there for some truths to start coming out.

And I agree that the polygraph is a waste. You know he is lying. But, I also agree it is a useful way to shut the conversation down about the "innocent" gift.

And, I am so sorry. I, too, dined with APs, had them in my home, shared stories. I will never understand how these women can look you in the eye, knowing what they did. But, they are out there, and they are just as despicable as our WS. Take some comfort in knowing that they are so pathetic, they accept the sloppy second crumbs thrown to them by a married man. They are the sickest of the pack, meagerly surviving on ego scraps. They are not strong enough to get any better than a lying, cheating, sloppy second. You are better, and you will get out of infidelity one way or another.