SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You could contact the team and let them know what's going on, then explain to them your lawyer will be dragging their organizations players code of conduct into question?

Essential reading:

Newbies - if you love them, and they are not remorseful, have a think about starting a divorce. OK, so this one is going to take a little explaining, because it's very counter intuitive and divorce would surely be the last things on our minds.

Here's your checklist

You

1. Feel your life has imploded

2. Are devastated

3. Cannot understand how to survive the next day

4. Desperately want to save the marriage

5. Believe you love your spouse

6. Have something in your gut telling you your spouse should be doing more

7. Feel like you would "know" if they were completely remorseful and just don't feel it.

Them

1. Are defensive

2. Do what you ask, but only because you get so upset.

3. Don't go above and beyond, don't amaze you with how much they do to help you

4. Get angry or defensive

5. Use any of the following

. I'm confused

. I don't know if I love you

. I need to find myself

. You're being too demanding

. I probably had the affair because you....

If they above rings true, divorce should at least be on your agenda of options.

Right then I suppose I'd better justify this.

Look, why would you stay married to such a person? not only did they devastate you, but they are continuing to hurt you. There's no reason to be married to a person like that! You want to be married to someone that protects you, treasures you, loves you, and makes you feel loved. The person you thought existed didn't. that person is selfish, cruel, heartless. They are a liar, an adulter. Who wants to be married to a loser like that? What they have done is perfectly reasonable grounds for divorce. so do it. Divorce them immediately.

You have to accept the reality of your wayward spouse's situation. They are confused about whom they love, whom they want to be with. The worst case scenario is that they will continue the affair, and because the affair is addictive, and makes them feel good, they will do this in all situations possible, no matter what the effect on you is. You are probably thinking that your situation is different. It really isn't. If the worst case scenario doesn't happen then your spouse is going to exist in a sort of limbo, not knowing where to turn. All this time your soul will be dying because you will not be able to comprehend that the person you love didn't come running back into your arms once you caught them or the affair was exposed. It does happen, but it's very, very rare. Much more likely is that you will both exist in a limbo, not knowing what will happen next, or how to move forward. The WS will be confused, and the BS will be utterly devastated. This shit needs to end, and it will ONLY end when the BS says it ends. If your WS says they need time, or distance, or space. If they say they are confused, they are lost, they "regret" the affair, or "reg that you got hurt" then they DO NOT GET WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO YOU and will NOT get it until you put your foot down and say enough. It's terrible enough to be the victim of infidelity, but the sad reality is that somehow you have to dredge up the strength to fight for you spouse if you want them back, despite what they have done to you. Fighting means tough love. It means putting an end to their nonsense. It means waking them up to what they are about to realise. Or even letting them go if they do not wake up. It means instigating divorce proceedings.

Beginning divorce proceedings has a number of benefits for you

1. Self Respect.

Infidelity trashes your self respect. Claim some back by taking control of the situation. Now the relationship is taking a path YOU have defined, that YOU are in control of. As a new BS you will crave control, crave rationality. Beginning a divorce will give you this control.

2. A bullshit time limit

An unremorseful wayward spouse is a nasty piece of work. They will lie, manipulate, and continue to betray you. They will protect themselves and their lover at your expense, and the expense of any children. They will tell you everything you need to hear, but only when you drag it out of them in agony. They will be difficult, argumentative, angry and defensive. Basically, they are unpleasant people. Critically, they will CONTINUE to be unpleasant people until YOU do something about it. They will sit on the fence, wrapped up in their own feelings, whilst your soul dies. You may think that YOUR spouse is different. They arn't. beginning divorce proceedings puts a finite time limit on their bullshit. They can lie to you, make you feel like YOU are the bad guy, give you every excuse in the book as to why they are not stepping up and fixing the marriage, but the clock is ticking.When they clock expires, you are free of all teir bullshit and can start the healing process.

3. Vision

A BS's world is very dark. We wonder how to survive today, never mind tomorrow. There appears to be no future. We can see no life without misery. We can see no freedom, no light, no smiling, no joy. All ahead is dark. Start divorce proceedings. Now you have a future. It may not be the future you had ever hoped for, but it's a future. Sometime to aim for, something to plan for. Something that will force you to get some sleep so you can organise your life.

4. Healing

If you are with an uremorseful wayward spouse, things are going to get worse, not better. You are certainly not going to start healing. that happens when they become remorseful, or you are free of them.

so divorce the bastards. They are not worth being married to.

However.

Maybe. Just maybe. Maybe that pathetic excuse for a spouse isn't the limit of their potential. Maybe they have it within them to actually be the person you thought they were. Hell. Maybe they can be MORE than you or they ever thought. The wayward spouses on here who are remorseful are incredibly self aware, rounded human beings. They stand no nonsense. They examine themselves for their faults relentlessly. They make you want to stand up and applaud. They make you want to be a better man. Wouldn't it be nice if you were married to a person like that. THAT would be fucking awesome. Well, remember why you fell in love. you believe that person is worth more, or you wouldn't still be reading this post. Filing for divorce MIGHT just make them

1. Realise what they are about to lose

2. Take a long hard look at themselves

3. Recognise that their bullshit, lying, and manipulating is pointless, because the clock just keeps ticking.

there are countless tales on here, including my own, where nothing happened until the BS retook control of the relationship. The WS sat on the fence happily destroying the BS, wrapped up in their own little drama, UNTIL the BS decided they had had enough and took control.

So, you start divorce proceedings. what are the possible outcomes.

1. They sort themselves out and start to "get it"

Keep the proceedings going until you are damn sure you have someone who is remorseful, not someone who is just playing up to get you to stop. You can always restart the process. In the UK its awesome because there are several points where you can basically press the "pause" button, and then start it rolling again. However, if they really do realise what they have lost and start to fight for it, then you can kill the process. That's what happened for me, and I'm convinced it's what a lot of people need to be doing.

2. They get angry and leave

Wave them goodbye with a smile. Good riddance - all you have done is start a process you would have to have gone down in the end anyway, so all that's happened is that you have shortcutted the process, saved yourself from tolerating their craziness, and retaken control of your life. Hell, they may even come crawling back. It happens. what happens after that is of course, up to you.

3. They continue lying and cheating

Well, sounds like a good reason to divorce someone to me.

Look, I am VERY pro marriage. I believe that with a remorseful wayward spouse, and a forgiving Betrayed Spouse, marriages can be stronger and more fulfilling than they ever were before the affair, because neither partner is now taking the other for granted. Both are working at the marriage. I would rather get to that point without the agony of betrayal, but hey. However, I am NOT pro foggy remorseful spouse. It breaks my heart to read post after post from betrayed spouses who have just been stabbed in the heart and still have the courage to want to save their marriage, whilst their WS is still in foggy lala land. It's sickening. Nothing ever changed until the BS retakes control, so when I say "divorce them", what I really mean is "retake control of your life, and put time limit on the pain".

so, if you are with an unremorseful spouse, who is hurting you, think about divorcing them. It's an acknowledgement of the reality of the situation you have been forced into. It doesn't have to go the full term, but either way it's a win win situation.

People always say "dont make any rash decisions for six months". But that is assuming both people are back on board. If your spouse is still hurting you by lying, minimising, getting angry or defensive, then no-one expects you to put up with that for six months. you're being emotionally abused. Put a stop to it. Give it a time limit.

I love my wife with all my heart. However, I wish I had started divorce proceedings against her the moment I realised she was not remorseful. We might have made it, we might not, but I would not have been put through six weeks of hell that he left me far more traumatised than the original affair did. If you love them, then be prepared to let them go. It's your best shot at getting them back.

Your wife is not remorseful, hell she doesn’t regret it. Dude YOUR the villain because she is engaged in an affair.

Women usually just use a panty liner and change that. Also the changed the into panty type matters. Were they sexy panties.

Find a out your ur rights. Let people know, you f you don’t next step she rewrites martial history.

Mostly be prepared to lose the marriage to save it.

why did she go without you?

He is a known cheater.

Let her have him. file for d and expose.

get a new counselor.

fire the old one.

So I do want to reconcile. I have already contacted a lawyer - I have already followed a lot of the steps you are provided - so thank you for that.

Read up on the 180.

Why don’t think I need additional information and please talk me out of this, is if it is a known and I’ve documented - I’m not sure what else I need to work with beyond that. Thoughts?

Well she goes, comes home and is a mess. Tells me in the following days - I just can't cut him out of my life.

She wants to "end it" with someone from 20 years ago? That in itself need some explanation.

Has the PA been going on for the 13 years that you have been together?

Explain that if she insists on dating him over the next two weekends that she can do that but not as your wife, as one of the gurus around here would say. Search for comments by "Bigger"

If not already they will be PA soon if he is coming to your town regularly. Sad but predictable, prepare yourself.

Why don’t think I need additional information and please talk me out of this, is if it is a known and I’ve documented - I’m not sure what else I need to work with beyond that. Thoughts?

If an EA and a non-remorseful spouse is a deal breaker for you, and it should be, you don't need anything else. And that's where you're at.

However, a lot of men in this situation want to know whether it's a PA, even if they intend to divorce. I would myself. Because if she ever turns around and finds remorse, knowing the truth and what you'd be trying to forgive is important.

[This message edited by badmemory at 12:47 PM, March 2nd (Friday)]

First, fire that counselor. She is enabling your W's cheating. I swear sometimes I think MC is worthless. Yet another example of terrible MC doing more harm than good in a marriage. When the M is in crisis a MC just ensures that it will end in D.

If your W insists then I would put both the counselor and your W on the spot.

"So MC would you say that my W engaging in a emotional, possible physcial affair with her ex-bf to be beneficial to this relationship ? She lied to me about this already. How can I trust that she won't betray me ? Do I not deserve to know the truth so I can make a decision about my own life ? "

"I Expressed my views that I was not OK with this and she did it anyway and then she lied to me about it. I had to find out how much damage had been done to our M. If she has nothing to hide why would she care if I looked ? I mean the only reason she wants privacy is because she wants to abuse the trust I previously had in her to continue an affair with her ex boyfriend who already suggested them sleep together. If the roles were reversed my W would in no way be comfortable with me doing the same with an ex-girlfriend. You seemed to be focusing on my Ws side and by doing so you are dismissing and invalidating my feelings. I see no point in continuing these sessions if I never get a turn or feel like you guys are ganging up on me. I feel so alone and I have no choice but to defend myself."

Look up the 180 and get yourself a different IC to work on yourself.

ETA: I did not mean to imply all MC are terrible or MC serves no purpose. My own personal experience has put me off of MC forever, but if it helps someone else so be it.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 12:51 PM, March 2nd (Friday)]

Why don’t think I need additional information and please talk me out of this, is if it is a known and I’ve documented - I’m not sure what else I need to work with beyond that. Thoughts?

my thought is that your WW is not admitting to this Emotional Affair (that may be physical since adults will generally progress to this at some point given the opportunity) and you are going to have to do something here to knock her off of this fence she is sitting on. Now here comes the hard part. You need to be prepared to lose this marriage and divorce. If you are then you start the process. Tell her that you know at a minimum this is an EA. That it is not acceptable and you will not stay in this marriage while it is going on. Tell her that you will be filing for divorce because of her continual choosing of this OM and the A over you.

And then.... DO IT. File. ASAP. Notice I didn't say Divorce. Just file. It won't happen immediately but the wheels will start rolling. She can stop it by coming back into the marriage exclusively and you can withdraw the filing. People withdraw them all of the time. What you need to be prepared for is that she will not stop it, at least right away and maybe never and in that case you will get divorced. She will have made a choice. Right now she is continuing the A while gaslighting you because YOU allow it. Stop allowing it. Filing cannot be a bluff. You have to follow through. Don't threaten that you are going to. Just do it.

If she says "What can I do to stop this divorce. I don't want it." Then you can have a list ready. Several people have already given you things to add to it. Things like:

1. Complete and total No Contact with her BF. Telling him, in a letter that you see and approve, that he is to be out of her life. Not a final meeting for a goodbye romp and nothing in the letter about how their timing was just off and in another life,etc. Just goodbye and leave me alone.

2. Complete and total transparency on location and communications. Open phone, open email, open social media, etc. You can see it all (and she can see yours)

3. A complete and total confession and timeline on what has happened, backed up by a polygraph, so that you can have an idea what you are going to be asked to forgive. Don't write a blank check and a remorseful spouse will tell you the truth.

4. Individual counseling that helps her to understand what she has done and why. No blaming of you. Just some deep reflection on what caused this shortcoming in her character and how she is going to keep this from happening again.

There are probably more. This is just to get your mind going. You are the victim here. Not her and her "privacy". You. Start standing up for yourself. Until she understands that she has wronged you there can't be a reconciliation.

If she has historically changed her pantie's regularly, then that is what she does. Thats a side issue.

There was a thread on here where a WS spoke of a survey done where it was found that relationships formed in teenage years, have a life long effect. That the emotional bond remains throughout their life.

For me personally, I can attest to that.

I've personally seen a number of marriages end where a partner has returned to a relationship started in their teenage years. They are not many but they do occur. They crop up here periodically as well.

From what evidence you have uncovered, this relationship has commenced with the sole purpose of it becoming sexual. Unfortunately for you, your wife is responding positively to this.

With these points in mind, your steps forward now need to be firm and decisive. You need to take back the control in your life.

You need to end this quickly, otherwise the toxic influence will effect everyone for life.

I have sat here for awhile trying to think of other positive options for you towards reconciling, and I just cant find one.

My gut feeling is that things are going to turn sexual with the POSOM, if they have not already, and at this point there is nothing much you can do to stop it.

Get all your ducks in a row. Let her know what the consequences are going to be. Start implementing them. Read up on the 180.

You didnt choose infidelity but you can choose to get out of it.

I’m terrible and can never do the quote boxes but You said this:

“I may have lost folks here. I already know she’s having an emotional affair. I have the texts and her hand written notes to prove that already.

Since I am in a no-fault state - her engaging in a physical relationship (which to me now is a relevant) she’s already crossed the line with the emotional. I was just too weak to act on it.

I’m not sure what’s to be gained by gathering even more proof I have all the proof I need. She just refuses to acknowledge it. You all have enboldened me to finally take stronger action rather than submit to the wishes of this counselor”

- I love this attitude from you. It crossed a line for you and that’s all that matters. You don’t need to convince anyone that your feelings are justified.

I agree with the poster who implied that this has been going on for longer. What is there to cut out if it recently started up? Has she been (at best) emotionally attached to him for years or (at worst) in an ongoing affair with him?

Like you said, I’m not sure that matters. What matters is that it’s not a marriage you want to be in if she is thinking and feeling this way. It sounds like you have all the info you need to proceed with getting out of this type of relationship. Whether that means D or R (if she changes her way of thinking, feeling and acting).

Take it from someone whose wife told him years ago that she wasn’t happy and was “missing out on life”. I wish I had let her go then instead of trying to save my marriage. I ended up saving something that I don’t want anymore. I didn’t know about her A at the time but now that I do I feel as though all I did was waste time and energy on nothing. Don’t be me.

[This message edited by LetItBeMan09 at 1:31 PM, March 2nd (Friday)]

How much proof do you have that he is divorced. Just because your wife told you so?

I’d contact and verify. His wife may be able to give you valuable info even if they are divorced.

So again thank you I have completed my paperwork I have left the lawyers office and the instruction was at my next call would be the action to serve her. It’s not a bluff I do feel like all the commentary you all provided basically has grown me a spine and helped move me to that point. It’s funny how emotions can swing like a pendulum. But this is the best advice I’ve been given. Just to catch up on a few facts the emotional affair began last year, however through counseling she ended it. However it’s come back around and this time she’s actually been in physical contact with them. That didn’t happen last time - it did this time

MrAnudo,

Good move on the legal front, you're sending her a message that you see this as her choosing a known cheater over the kiddos father. That said, I would not be too overt in sending everyone the screenshots and pics of their communication however, I would keep them handy....when confronted by common friends, I would then show them why you are filing.

It is better to file now from a spousal support perspective than after 20 years....she is in a fog, whether or not she emerges is strictly up to her and her IC. It doesn't sound too promising from the IC standpoint though.

One additional thing, I see that the OM is from out of town...if this is some distance, it should be established that she will not be allowed to take your child away for extended periods of time. Speak to the lawyer about this....she is in lala land and likely is building a fantasy life with him where ever he is. He'll likely drop her once he sees that she has responsibilities that will limit her availability. I am not suggesting that you use this to get her back but it will f up her little fantasy.

The question I like to ask anyone in this situation is: Do you think that clinging to someone who is capable of cheating, lying and making you look like the evil doer is someone you want to be with for the rest of your life? Is this really the best you can do?

thanks for listening.

The OM is1000 miles ( more in kilometers) away in the great white north. Shitty little apartment. As in earlier poster pointed out it was a teenage relationship that clearly impacted her life. Reconnecting with him over Facebook and chatting and texting just drew that back out of her. I accept no responsibility for this - but do know she’ll never leave this place. Her dads here, our kid’s awesome school sports and friends are here - at worst she’ll leave on her own

Fire this counselor, she is just an enabler for your WW's affair.

Classic blame shifting on your snooping instead of

her inappropriate behavior.

QFT!!

I’m not sure what’s to be gained by gathering even more proof I have all the proof I need. She just refuses to acknowledge it.

The only reason to get more proof is if you think she will be able to convince you to question the proof you have. To be able to rugsweep the EA a SECOND time. If you are fine with what you have we are fine with it. (anything come up with phone bills? excessive calls/texts)

I'm glad you have seen a lawyer and have been prepped. Now, prepare to confront. I like the "you can spend as much time with OM as you want to but not as my wife" approach because it makes it clear that she is choosing him over the marriage. She should be able to decide immediately not in a day/week... You should have requirements for R ready. A new IC? a poly? complete transparency with her phone and computer? a NC letter that you see before she sends. Complete NC which includes b-day wishes, how ya doing... NC... When you talk to her make sure you call it an Emotional Affair, not a friendship, or a inappropriate relationship.

^

I wouldn’t call it an emotional affair if they agreed to meeting up after he wanted to get together to “hook up and reignite stuff”

hey do you wanna hook up for a 1 night stand, reignite stuff? She doesn't specifically answer but they start planning a night out.

That is a pretty ballsy question. Her lack of an answer to me says ok or considering it. If I asked an old flame I am 98% sure this would be her response

Has this night out happened yet?

I would just call it an Affair. If she says she'd like to Reconcile you can find out then how extensive it was.