SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

1: you are approaching 1 yr since dday. That can be a huge triggering time for a BS.

2: I don’t know about the transgendered piece of things, but as a BW, I don’t know how much emphasis I would put on this particular- or any particular- aspect of the AP. I could list 1000 things my WH ‘s girlfriend is/was and I will never be, starting with someone that knew him since he was 20, and ending (and I suspect same for nearly every BS) with someone willing to fuck him despite being M. And even if I’m way off base here, what difference does it make? It’s not like you could go back and change who your AP was. She will have to process it however she is able. And in her own time.

3: I’m gonna apologize upfront if this comes off harsh, but just having an affair is a flipping dealbreaker. Period/end of sentence. So whenever folks say “is THIS a dealbreaker? “, The little hairs on my neck stand at attention. The “deal“ has already been broken- there is NOTHING ‘increasingly apparent’ about it. It was broken the second you made the choice to have an A. The only question that remains on this front is if she is willing to make a “new“ deal with you. Which brings me to.....

4: Grieving. I know you are aware of this, because you have posted about your own grieving of your M (which would indicate you know- on some level- that the “deal” was already broken). So every time you have thought you were “grieving” the end of your marriage, remember her having to do the same and multiply it 1000. We grieve every dream we made. We grieve that our youth is gone - wasted on someone who hurt us more than we imagined possible. We grieve the loss of our reality. We grieve the loss of an intact family. We grieve our value and esteem - not only from our WS, but from the world. We grieve the loss of honesty in our other relationships, because the humiliation is so profound we are too ashamed & embarrassed to talk about it - even with close friends & family (and this is one place the transgender AP would hit me pretty hard). It’s a LOT to process. And I dunno if it’s bc my WH’s LTA was so long or not, but I don’t know if it will ever be “processed” fully - I’m not sure I have enough time left on this planet.

You seem really interested in her knowing you are “still working and waiting”. Why? Why is that so important?

What has she said to you or asked if you? Is there some reason you don’t trust her to know herself? To know her feelings?

I think she wants to reinforce the easy answer that this was me killing us and be done but that isn’t the nature of this.

what does that mean? Who are you to decide if this is an “easy answer” for her? And how is it that it was not “me killing us”? That sounds like dangerous territory (and maybe this is the pride seeping out?)

I think mrs walloped makes some pretty good points. And at the end of the day, you cannot fix her. You made choices that put in motion a series of events with very real consequences, one of which is that she has to figure out how to eat a shit sandwich. You can bring her a glass of water to help her wash it down, but you cannot eat it for her. And it’s up to her if she wants your water, or feels she’s better off getting it herself.

So work on being a better man. And don’t expect a single brownie point from her for doing so, cuz she’s busy working on that sandwich, that may take a lifetime to digest.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 12:58 PM, October 19th, 2019 (Saturday)]

GMC- All solid points. I know I can’t understand this decision from the outside and ultimately can’t affect it. And while I can’t know for sure, it seems like the easy answer to me- It’s not consistent and it’s often punctuating what brief moments of her emotions I can see. I’m demonstrating in whatever ways I can what my desired outcome looks like. The statement months ago was she didn’t know who she is or what she wants, and that she couldn’t make any promises. That degree of uncertainty permeates everything that happens in a week between us.

So given that all I can do is demonstrate through actions, I’m working to be as hands off as I can be- But I can’t give up because I think that truly validates that I never valued her. Clearly that value disappeared (and this ties in very well with the adjacent post on such unanswerable questions) but it existed for a decade plus, and while its disappearance was the shittiest thing I did, that had changed. And while that’s irrelevant to her healing if she hears on the million and first time that these were truly my failures then it’s worth it.

I’m to the point where I can’t get an answer on what my best support looks like. So I can either work to be as present as possible without imposing or just disappear. And refining present without imposing is what I’m trying to do here. But the normal answer of “just ask” is incomplete in this situation.

[This message edited by JBWD at 1:54 PM, October 19th (Saturday)]

JBWD: I hear ya on the "just ask" isn't always the answer. I get it.

I don't want to project, but that "easy answer" thing is kind of sticking with me. I may be misreading, but what I'm hearing you say is her proceeding with D bc you killed the M is an "easy answer" that doesn't align with some of her other comments/behaviors. Is this correct?

No, my original wording is too loaded. Your recap is exactly correct- The statements about divorce and continuing with mediation are often included with terms like “Well this doesn’t matter anymore” etc, and are often timed as ways to close the door.

So better described as a means to curtail what would otherwise turn into long emotional examinations that she’s simply too exhausted to undertake at the moment.

And the proof that these conversations and thoughts DO continue is the frequent flooding texts.

Ah, Ok. Thanks for the clarification.

I am guilty of similar behavior. I'd say part of the rollercoaster and not read too much to it beyond she is in deep trauma and pain that, unfortunately, you cannot heal for her (or she's trying to eat a shit sandwich and sometimes she chokes which manifests in various ways).

I can't speak for your BW, but I can say that it took me a LONG time (and I dunno if it matters, but we lived under the same roof until about 18 months) to stop wishing my WH could comfort me through the unimaginable pain at the same time I wanted to -literally- punch him in the face. When the triggers (or flooding) come up, it is intense and I often just want it to stop such that I said and did things that I hoped would help. I can see how the crazymaking aspects of our trauma can be very confusing for the WS in that there is no way to tell what's really going on in those moments. But for me, I can't say that I really knew either, other than I wanted to stop feeling so devastated, stop triggering all the f*cking time, etc. At more than 20 months out, it is still unbelievably exhausting to just manage the PTSD. Not heal or cure - just MANAGE getting through the day without a meltdown over what my life has become, what I have lost, and all that my WH threw in the garbage for basically nothing.

We are all on our own timetables for healing. You do you. She knows you want to bring her water to help with the sandwich. I think you have to trust her to ask for it if she ever wants it. And remember that she may never want it bc her lizard brain just won't let her be that kind of vulnerable.

ETA: I would watch that "easy way" language to the extent that I believe many (most? all?) BS are on linguistic "high alert". The actual words - regardless of intent - can really flipping matter to us big time. I know that's scary for a WS who may already feel they are walking on eggshells, but being clear about the words is also a signal of introspection and centering. Mean what you say and say what you mean is a good step in trust.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 3:26 PM, October 19th, 2019 (Saturday)]

Heard on follow-on points, GMC. I definitely believe there’s a lot of change yet to come. And I know that most of those options are goodness. And absolutely on words and meaning: IC is working hard with me to focus on self, which means lots of examination on R and relationship goes without being articulated except when typed out here- So the feedback is appreciated.

Hi, I did want to give you a response. My thoughts have shifted a bit, though.

Given that your work has an echo chamber aspect - that you're not in R, can't really work on the relationship because you're separated - I don't want to be too hard on you there or pick apart syntax or tone on the Internet.

To be honest, were I advising your BW, the transgender issue would be tough to overcome. You are a male, sex is very important to most men. You've already gone outside the marriage for something that cannot be provided in the marriage. I think the most likely scenario for situations such as these (not saying you can't be different) are that the risk of recurrence is very high.

I do wish you the best in whatever happens with your family.

Pippin- Thanks for the insight, I realize your question went unanswered- Sporadically I DO have friends around. I have only a couple regular events to anchor and a lot of my friends are relocating. Family is all on the opposite coast except for in-laws: And while they are EXTREMELY supportive of both of us that’s just too strained an interaction for me. So it’s a bit lonely but IC and I have developed lots of tactics, and it’s sporadic like I said.

Striver- Thanks for the follow up. I hear you on those barriers and know that was one of the large fears in BW’s mind. But MC was pretty methodical in how we examined this, and we discussed at length the understanding that this is a part of my sexuality that exists but doesn’t require active feeding. The closest parallel I think of is if a bisexual man fell in love with a woman and became monogamous- I don’t think that sounds improbable, except through the lens of infidelity. Which once again is a separate matter that I continue to work through.

ETA: The perspective is appreciated though, thank you.

[This message edited by JBWD at 3:42 AM, October 24th (Thursday)]

the understanding that this is a part of my sexuality that exists but doesn’t require active feeding.

I understand this, except when you had your A your AP was a transgender woman. So something in you chose to feed that part of you. It just may be too much for your BW to handle knowing she can’t provide that part that you want. I’m sorry. I’m sure you’re working through this, but reaching an understanding in MC and internalizing it in your BW’s mind are two totally different things. If there’s one thing I learned, it’s that none of this is an intellectual exercise.

it seems like the easy answer to me- It’s not consistent and it’s often punctuating what brief moments of her emotions I can see.

The statement months ago was she didn’t know who she is or what she wants, and that she couldn’t make any promises. That degree of uncertainty permeates everything that happens in a week between us.

The uncertainty your BW is going through is totally normal. It also could be that she knows what she wants but she just has a very hard time with her decision because of your shared history. What I mean is that her uncertainty is not an opening for you. Its not an opportunity to convince her. It’s a heart wrenching pain that she’s going through.

So given that all I can do is demonstrate through actions, I’m working to be as hands off as I can be- But I can’t give up because I think that truly validates that I never valued her.

I understand this. I did the same thing. But there’s a very thin line between letting your BS know that you’re not giving up and that you’ll be there for her versus pushing and trying to affect the outcome. I hoped for an outcome and I told my BH what I hoped the outcome would be, but the choice was his and I needed to respect that and I told him that. I think making sure your BW knows you respect her choices and even respect the fact that she’s struggling or uncertain about her choices is very important. Your A took away a lot of the safety she felt she had in her M. Respecting her and the choices she makes now, even if they tear your heart in two, will help her gain back some of the power or control over her life which she doesn’t feel right now.

I hear you on those barriers and know that was one of the large fears in BW’s mind. But MC was pretty methodical in how we examined this, and we discussed at length the understanding that this is a part of my sexuality that exists but doesn’t require active feeding.

Respectfully, I don't know how honest this discussion could be, since you are effectively dictating to your BW how you feel. She is not a mind reader. Also, you are coming off an A and the lies, deceit, dishonesty therein. Why should she trust you? You're basically saying "I won't cross this line, even though I just crossed a bunch of others."

This is something as a WS you need to keep in mind. Your credibility is very low.

This is another reason why MC as solution to A just doesn't work.

What to believe, well that's another reason why affairs are destructive. You are highly motivated to hold and promote certain positions at this point in time. During A your motivations were far different.

Your BW feels like shit. Your continued presence is not helping this.

Striver this was your original post in mine and ultimately the crux of the defeat I was articulating in OP. I gave BW the latitude to continue with the schedules we had in place for family time, and we did that until she stopped them at her request the other week. Previous conversations on if that contact was overwhelming were where the responses turned to “I don’t know what I want or need.” Now that she has articulated, I support.

No argument on why MC didn’t work. However in the context of the sexuality questions the marriage counselor (acting as my IC) at least helped me answer the question of if I needed a transgender woman to be fulfilled. That answer is “no.” I find genetic and trans women attractive. But it’s not a required trait. My surprise at this coming up again in discussion was based on the resolution I thought we had on the subject.

ETA: This is resolution I KNOW and understand that she doesn’t FEEL. No way to bridge that gap unless time passes and she feels I am safe again. That won’t be anytime soon but I will wait. I don’t know if there will be a point where I can’t wait anymore- I can’t envision it.

[This message edited by JBWD at 7:43 PM, October 24th (Thursday)]

You might need to have a Frank discussion about Justice. Like my wife and I did. What we are brought up to believe and the reality of it in our lives. There is huge disconnect with infidelity.

That was a huge hurdle for my wife. She got over it by finding grace and mercy. I don't think she could have moved on to that without her support network though. Books, church, and some faithful friends.

I think my wife’s grace and mercy have been thoroughly depleted, which is predictable given how much she has afforded me. That to say I don’t think she approaches that disconnect between what “should be” and what is with outrage: I think the overwhelming sadness of it is what bogs her down.

It’s an interesting facet to explore, but won’t be an item for discussion anytime soon, given where we are.

[This message edited by JBWD at 2:02 PM, October 26th (Saturday)]