SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Fender. Do you guys use some version of Find My Friends?

If so, every 10th or 20th or whatever time she goes out, why not show up? No excuses necessary. If she’s all in with you she should want to do anything to put your mind at ease.

She shouldn’t get mad. She should just say “I’m still sorry I made you feel you need to do this, but I’m glad you still care enough to do it”.

Just my thought. I hope your discussion goes well.

No, you're not crazy. I'm in the "once a cheater, always a cheater" camp. I spent the last 7 years waiting for the other shoe to drop and it just did. Before dday#2, I would think that the worst already happened, so how bad could it be a second time? Well, it is bad a second time but not as bad. It is not as shocking the second time.

______________________________________________

This X 10!!!

The other shoe recently dropped for me too. (a butt call no less!) It's almost like a relief that I can call it quits now and not have to keep being the marriage police.

fuckin' A if I don't totally relate to those same thoughts and feelings

I thought I was immune to this outside of my M, but low and behold, I went out about a month ago and met a guy - no one I am interested in the least in dating or otherwise, and I have made it clear that is not what I am interested in (although I am D, I am still living with WH until next summer and I am not going to think about seeing anyone else until I am gone - no interest and not appropriate IMO). He told me he is newly single, having ended a 6 year relationship and was divorced 10 years ago and is trying to get out and do things more himself. He has acknowledged my "I'm not dating or getting involved in any way at all sexually or romantically or otherwise" with anyone and has invited me to a few outings with friends of his (male and female) - specifically a football watching party, etc, as I told him I don't have a big social circle here outside of my WH and his friends.

So, I have no reason to be suspicious of what he's doing with his life, and no real reason to care anyway, but I found myself the other day thinking about the times that he has messaged me, and they seem to coincide with times he would be away from a significant other IF he had one. And then I caught myself thinking...These times seem funny to me. What if he's married/in a relationship and contacting me behind someone's back?!?!

ARGH!!!

WTF do I care - he's not making any romantic moves or doing/saying anything inappropriate AND I am not interested in him anyway - yet I have these thoughts. I am actually giving some time in my mind, and likely more of it subconsciously than I am even aware of, and it doesn't even matter, about the times some guy is messaging me. The guy has done nothing be seemed friendly and invited me to group events as I said - yes I said - I was hoping to make some friends and do some things without my WH, and he was kind enough to think to include me and I'm suspicious. The pre-A me would not have given a moment's thought to this. Shit, if I think about it, a lot of my messaging times would seem potentially shady to someone too.

Fuck it makes me mad.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 11:23 AM, December 5th (Thursday)]

There’s a woman in my neighborhood who will not talk to me. When I see her she will stare at me, but if I say anything to her she ignores me. Maybe she heard bad things about me, or somehow knew me in a past life (I don’t remember her), but I can’t help but wonder if this is somebody my WH screwed around with. It’s really bugging me.

So yeah, you’re not the only one who assumes the worst. Lol

those moments are not "gut feelings". They are more like a PTSD flashback. They said you need to calm your mind and body down at those times. The real gut feeling is a nagging and somewhat constant sense that things aren't right.

It helped me develop techniques like mantras and breathing to calm myself. Other techniques like journaling or meditation help with developing my gut instinct.

This is awesome! I live this! Yes, very important to distinguish between a PTSD trigger and that nagging feeling that something is off.

Not only do we live with these huge scars. We live with fear. It happened once. The second would seem easier for them to cheat. There’s little to no trust. I struggled at that. If he cheated when our marriage was better. Why wouldn’t he after all this fighting and damage? I wasn’t very good company.

Once we dive into all the information. The statistics. We learn. But it can add to the fear. Or paranoia. Or gut feelings

This has changed us. In ways we are smarter. It just is

It’s part of the aftermath.

The statistics aren’t confidence building.

It reminded me of getting a serious diagnosis. With low odds of recovery. xwh did zero work.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 9:42 AM, December 6th (Friday)]

PTSD trigger

I guess I always thought a trigger was something that took you back mentally and reminded you of the affair, but they were not a real threat of any kind. I imagined things like a song, seeing infidelity on tv, sexually acts initially.

These are more like a perceived minor threat where my mind went in overdrive. Often they weren't even things a WS could anticipate. At the risk of sounding like a total looney, here's a few specific examples.

One weekend morning I was up early and decided to make blueberry scones. I wanted to look up the recipe, and WH's laptop was on the kitchen table. We both use the same browser primarily and often use icognito/private tabs to log into multiple accounts on the same site.

I pulled up a browser neither of us use often rather than mess with the one he had been using. Whatever I fat fingered into the address or search, it autocompleted with a dating website. I flipped mentally and went down a rabbit hole of searching for hours.

There's like 5 or 6 other laptops and tablets in the house. Eventually I calmed down enough to repeat the process on two of my laptops to convince myself it was ok. It was like I couldn't calm down enough initially to think straight.

The other time WS left early on a workday to stop by one of our houses. He went into the garage/workshed to get a tool. Totally innocent, he's going by the house to do something. Suddenly I was convinced he had a burner phone in there and searched everywhere for it.

The feeling of wishing I could find something to end the craziness and pain was crushing. I checked myself into an outpatient treatment program eventually. I started to obsessively check items daily and add more and more to the list.

Fender,

Did you talk to her? How did it go?

Nevermind the super secret code on his phone and that he won’t share his location with me on findfriends

This is instant D material for me...my WW would be kicked out ASAP if she did this.

We had a nice long talk last night. Sorry today has been crazy and I haven’t had a chance to post about it, but I will tomorrow. Thanks for caring and for the good advice, everyone!

One thing I’ve realized is that I finally feel like I am certainly NOT going to get a D. I think we are R’ing pretty well. But THAT is what’s got me spooked. What if I finally let my guard down and give myself fully to R, and then WHAMMY it happens again.

Other times I think about all the ways I llove my wife, and how I really do believe she is a much better person now. But then my mind won’t let me get comfortable with that thought. As if it says “just remember, 3 years ago what’s his name had her bent over his living room couch!” I don’t believe I will ever trust any woman fully ever again, even if I ever do get a D and then find someone new. Ok, longer update tomorrow. Thank you.

It must feel good to be firm in your decision. I hope you feel some peace and that you can enjoy your holiday season with your family 😊 I would give anything to go back to that. So sad that your peace of mind diminishes so much when your spouse cheats. Best of luck!

What if I finally let my guard down and give myself fully to R, and then WHAMMY it happens again.

That's the risk with R. But, that's a risk with any romantic relationship. Is it more or less risky with a fcp or a new partner? I don't know.

One thing that helps me is deciding that I'm going to do whatever because I want to. I try not to expect anything in return. After all, my fch doesn't owe me anything. He is not obligated to be safe for me. Also, fully understanding and accepting that no one else's behavior is about me. It's about them. So, if I choose to R and my fch betrays me again, I am not stupid for choosing to R. He is stupid for betraying me.

humantrampoline, I would consider the browser sitch a trigger. You saw something possibly related to infidelity and flipped. Your reaction was based on a perceived threat that you felt because of your past trauma.

The garage and burner phone is not as clear cut to me, but I can still see it as a possible trigger. Your trauma brain viewed that as him possibly being sneaky, dishonest, deceptive. You are hyper aware of any possible sketchy behavior because of the trauma he inflicted on you.

Sorry it took so long to get back. This weekend was crazy and went by quick, I barely had a chance to sit down it seemed.

We had a talk some night last week. I told her that I am truly starting to believe that we'll never get a D, and that we have moved past the A in general. But that scares the hell out of me. That the more comfortable I get, the less observant I will become, and then she could possibly slide one by me again. She cried a lot, at first because I was bringing up the A at all. Then she cried because she didn't realize I was still in so much pain over it. She tried to reassure me all the ways that she lets me know where she is, where she's going. She cited taking the kids with her when she goes places. If she does go out with her friends on occasion, she either sends me photos of what they're doing, or posts something on facebook so that the entire world knows she's out having a PG outing with a friend. I don't ask her to do these things, she just does. She maintains that she never spoke to the AP again after Dday. No closure, no getting their stories straight, nothing... he was the last person she ever wanted to see again once she discovered who he really was. I believe her on this.

I'm starting to forget about the A. I don't always feel hurt all the time. I don't feel overwhelming emasculation anymore. I don't feel hatred towards her. Something happened at her job that effected her in a negative way, and it felt good to really have her back when helping her through it... I felt like I actually had a wife again. But then, of course, I had to remind myself that she had an A... can't forget about that. My memory won't let me enjoy a prolonged happy moment with her.

After my near-miss A, and overall wild, slightly out of control behavior during last winter/spring, I partly feel like I understand better how Affairs can happen. Not excusing them. I didn't actually do anything that I consider to be wayward, but maybe I did. It felt really fucking good to know that a woman (she was 26, I was 37, this was in May) 11 years younger than me was attracted to me, physically and emotionally. It's like even though I didn't have the A, it gave me the ego kibbles and such, and I almost feel like the score is even a bit. Not that evening the score was ever my point, but it really helped my confidence. I did tell my wife about this, who she was, that nothing happened and that I have taken measures to make sure I never see this person again. She seems to have kind of fallen out with some of our mutual friends anyway, so I may have nothing to worry about. That incident really make me think about what I want (what I really really want) and I have determined that I really want to stay with W.

So it was a good talk, she opened up a little more than she usually does. I told her that I NEED her to stop behaving like my roommate / co-parent. I'm not just talking about sex, either. She is not much for physical affection, even non-sexual. She would never consider cuddling up on the couch and watching a movie... she'd be busy working on her laptop while I watch the show. When we go to bed, we always sleep as far away from each other as possible. I like my space too, especially when sleeping. Sometimes I wonder if I am just expecting too much, but then I read stories of other couple who are very affectionate, and the woman actually enjoys sex and intimacy, and I think "Can I really go the rest of my life without that?" She's so busy and stressed out that I don't think she even remembers how to enjoy herself, relax, etc. Ugh... this is what my thought cycle is constantly like.

Sometimes I wonder if I am just expecting too much, but then I read stories of other couple who are very affectionate, and the woman actually enjoys sex and intimacy,

I don't see how a marriage is sustainable without intimacy. Sex, maybe, but not intimacy.

Have you read The Five Love Languages? That might give you some insight into whether or not your W is expressing love in a way you don't recognize. It also might give your W some insight in how you need love expressed.

You may be a physical touch guy (which doesn't mean sex). She may be an acts of service person. That may help with intimacy, feeling connected.

One question Fenderguy.

Do you feel like you have forgiven her for choosing an A ?

I think I have forgiven her for choosing an A. The way she describes it, the A was something that started off as just friends who would have deep conversations. They would talk about things like religion, politics, literature, social issues, etc. He seemed so smart and worldly compared to me. I'm sure this kind of mental stimulation from him filled a void, something she didn't really have with me. I am not a dull, stupid man... but I don't usually get too deep about things. About a month after what we could call an EA, she went to his house one day to get some kind of kids toy that he was getting rid of. He kissed her. They had sex. Then they had sex about 6 more times over the next month.

It kind of seems like she didn't CHOOSE an A at all, but that it was a small seed that was planted and grew into a beanstalk. She obviously did have a CHOICE, and could've chosen to hop off the ride at any time. But in my more honest moments, I kind of get how it could happen to somebody. I've had several opportunities to cheat in the 12 years we've been together. I never took these opportunities, but I'm not her, and the situation wasn't the same.

I'm not making excuses for her. She doesn't make excuses for herself. But I really think I'm starting to forgive and forget the A, for real. She really is a good, kind woman. She's beautiful, a great mother, funny, and generally pleasant to be around. I love thinking nice things about her. I love acknowledging the good things she does. But then my brain has a built-in defense mechanism that won't let finish those thoughts.

Me- She really looks hot in that outfit.

My Brain- Yeah... I'll bet AP thought she looked better with her outfit on that floor!

Me- That was really nice of her to do (insert good deed) for me.

My Brain- Yeah... AP probably thought it was nice of her to bend over and accept his pounding.

I am so sick of it. I am tired of thinking about the A. I am sick of thinking of her like that. That way of thinking is not helping anybody. I feel like I'm fucking schizophrenic sometimes!! Like there's this alter-ego inside of me that won't let it go. I want to let it go. I'm sick of this consuming me! Consuming us!

It's been 19 years since I was unfaithful but since I am only just now starting the work, I don't even know for sure if he still thinks these things.

I know I do, though. Everytime I am a few more minutes at the store than i estimated to be or my cell phone rings at an odd time of day, I fear if he thinks this is me being unfaithful.

In reality this probably never crosses his mind. However that is not the point.

Thank you all for reminding me that I need to be opening my mouth and at least showing him that this is always in my thoughts and heart and I want to help him heal.

Have you told her that and asked how you both can build a M that meets both your needs in a really open and honest way ?

I agree with what everyone said about Fender not being crazy.

They basically said, and I'm totally paraphrasing, that those moments are not "gut feelings". They are more like a PTSD flashback.

I love what I just quoted.

What you said in your original post Fenderguy is the precise reason I divorced. Take care of yourself.