SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I completely forgot about the rape allegations. Man. Imagine if this had happened more recently, post-#metoo

I feel horrible for his wife and two daughters. Two little girls lost their sister and dad. A woman lost her husband and daughter. Very sad.

He stated it was consensual sex. She agreed to take the money to resolve the civil case.

That means nothing. Plenty of women have been raped, rapist claims it was consensual, she is given money. Happens all the time. Harvey Weinstein 100% did that shit. Bill Cosby. Give me a break.

I dont know if he was a rapist or not but i am more inclined to believe the accuser.

Doesnt change the fact that two girls lost their dad and sister. And a woman lost her husband

LLXC,

Totally possible he did it. Also possible that it was a case of a “nobody” consensually hooks up with a famous guy, he hits it and quits it because “it” is constantly and easily available from the next girl, girl sees $$$ if she claims famous guy wouldn’t take no for an answer—that happens a lot too.

Darkness Falls, have you read his apology?

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter." - Kobe Bryant

The worse it looked for him, the more he had to pay with the understanding she would refuse to cooperate. That's very common. Among my cases are infidelities with a lot of money on the line and the spouse never knowing about it. I try and pass those off to others, but these types of things play out over time getting to a settlement.

But that wasn't what happened. It did not look worse for him as the case progressed; it looked better. The judge ruled evidence of another man's semen and pubic hair could be admitted to contest the validity of the rape test because it was compelling enough to be an exception to the rape shield law which would normally preclude such evidence. This admission ruling was affirmed by a higher court on appeal.

Right before the trial was to begin and after the admission ruling, the victim admitted that she lied to police about details because she felt her story, as is, would not be believed so she embellished important details.

"I am extremely disappointed in myself and also very sorry to anyone who was mislead (sic) by my mix-up of information," the accuser said. "While there is no excuse for that mix-up, I said what I said because I felt that Detective Winters did not believe what had happened to me. In reporting this crime, one of my fears was that I would not be believed."

That is extremely problematic. Let's pretend she was not a witness for the state, but your own client. Who would want their client to explain to a jury that although they lied to bolster their case and failed to correct that lie, but now, when it counts, under the penalty of perjury and being subject to cross-exam, that even though they knowing lied about important details, they are now telling the truth? Would you seriously want your client or your star witness to offer testimony to the jurors that is evidence of reasonable doubt as to Kobe's guilt? Not to mention the defense had witnesses willing to testified under oath that the victim was making jokes about all the money she was going to make from the trial. If you cared about her at all and the fact that people will accuse her of doing this for a money grab, would you subject her to that?

I don't blame her that she did not want to testify in a criminal trial, but she cannot directly order the prosecutors because she is not their client; the prosecutors work for the people of the state of Colorado. If the prosecutors felt they had a strong case, they could force the case to continue. Obviously, for practical matters, they would not do that. But to characterize as if she was pulling the strings to squeeze more money out of him is not accurate.

She could and was free to continue a civil case, which offered her much less protection in terms of privacy (although the police had already leaked her name) with a much lower evidentiary standard and did not have to prove force, unlike criminal sexual assault conviction requires. I believe the damages she requested was $75,000.00, with Colorado law allowing a maximum of 2.5 million in punitive damages.

Prior to any testimony made under oath, she settled for an undisclosed amount. So we only have uncorroborated accounts made to investigators from either party. I don't know how anyone can view this as her being in the drivers seat. Your argument makes it seem like she was actively trying to squeeze money from him. I don't think that is the case.

I'm simply suggesting that we don't know what happened. We should start with the presumption that the victim is telling the truth, but give the defendant a fair trial. None of that happened. Unlike Cosby, Weinstein, Epstein, etc., we don't have scores of women coming forward claiming he assaulted them too. This was the only allegation made against him. So calling him a rapist, I think that is inappropriate.

[This message edited by KingRat at 1:44 PM, January 27th (Monday)]

He stated to police in his interview that he assumed it was consensual because the actions performed in his hotel room with the accuser were the same things he did with his side piece all the time. He offered her name and information to contact her. He also said he should have done like Shaq does and buy them cars and jewelry.

The civil suit was 2.5 million which was the cap at the time in the state of Colorado where this happened. He bought his wife a $4 million dollar purple diamond ring.

This kept me awake last night. Forgiving and reconciling with a man who did all that to you and your marriage and tragedy strikes and your life is forever changed in the worst way imaginable.

Legacy.....and it will be a complicated Grief for her.

Imagine if this had happened more recently, post-#metoo

Actually, in 2018 he was removed from a jury at a film festival. So he still had repercussions.

As to RIO's "famous and rich" comment, in my experience and observation famous people can have very positive influence while being pretty much assholes in real life. They have a power that is given to them by fame. To me it's like an entire separate track.

Kobe's wife forgave him, that's good enough for me. RIP all the folks that died on that helicopter.

I am an ex-Air Traffic Controller, the reason I posted that part so you can understand that I am familiar all aspects of flying.

The truly sad part is that this accident is familiar to me. It is simply a case of a VFR only qualified pilot who wound up in fog and lost ALL spatial awareness and just flew into a mountain.

As Ron white says "you can't fix stupid. He got into a situation that he was NOT trained to handle.

He was flying "special VFR which means flying VFR (Visual Flight Rules which are 1000 feet and 3 miles) which is less than the minimum and flew into IFR weather. An IFR(Instrument flight rules which means flying in instrument flight rules) is how you fly when the weather is bad. You CANNOT fly IFR without being trained and qualified. If you try it without being trained you WILL normally crash.

This is NOT the official yet but wait and see if the verdict is "Pilot error"

JMO YMMV

Yeah. I read an expert that stated the chances of catastrophic twin-engine failure were very low. Also, the pilot’s last transmission was he was going to climb. Apparently, that’s not what you do with ridges that high and visibility so poor. You’re supposed to turn around and follow the exact route that you took into the fog bank. There were no emergency distress calls prior to the crash. The estimated speed on impact also suggested that the helicopter was flying normal. Tragic.

My prayers are for Gianna and her family who are now mourning her and her father, and for the other victims in the crash and their families who are now mourning them. I can't even imagine how much pain they might be in right now. I hope they have all the support they need, and I hope they remember the better memories they have of him, and all the emotions that go with this.

I think there's space enough to hold more than one feeling, don't you?

I came here because I've been triggering at the responses to his death - specifically, the doxxing, insults, and death threats certain people have been receiving for trying to hold both realities: that he had a family and was beloved and inspiration AND greatly harmed this woman. I believe he was guilty. So I'm worried about his victim (and possibly another) who must be triggering like hell right now to see the man who raped her and tried to destroy her truth, her reputation, and her credibility being called a hero. I can't imagine how much pain she might be in right now, though I can come close. The man who molested me as a young child died when I was about 10, and my mother to this day still doesn't believe me (but my father did). A few years ago she put pictures of that period of our lives online, including a picture of him, which a lot of people mourned over. It made me feel guilt for being his victim, like I inconvenienced everyone and him by what happened, or by being affected by it. How fucked up is that?

I read this recently, as well as other articles, that have me believing he's guilty. This is an excerpt. Please be warned: TRIGGERS.

[Dana] Easter was on loan for this prosecution because she has been a specialist in sexual assault since 1989. “This was one of the strongest cases I’ve ever seen in an acquaintance rape,” she says flatly.

First, she says, there was the physical evidence – her rape exam showed vaginal trauma, and three drops of her blood was found on Bryant’s T-shirt. Then, there was the “believability” of the two people involved. “It’s a hallmark for us when someone lies,” Easter says.

“People lie when they have something to hide.” And then there was the accuser’s story. “This was a very credible outcry,” Easter says. “She implicates herself, and is truthful about very unattractive facts about herself. I’ve seen hundreds of these cases, and you learn what a credible outcry looks like.”

Easter said the gag order let the most outrageous things stand – like the suggestion that the accuser had sex after Bryant. Only the accusation was reported, Easter stressed, not the response. If there had been a trial, she says, the prosecution’s witnesses would have shown the jury that it was “just a crock.”

As she explains, the accuser had celebrated her birthday a dozen days before the Bryant encounter with an ex-boyfriend, having unprotected sex. One of the perks of her job was that she got to have a free room at the resort for this celebration. The bag she’d taken to her birthday celebration was still unpacked in her bedroom. She said she grabbed a pair of panties from the bag when she went in for her rape exam.

Easter surmises that sperm on those panties showed up in the DNA test. But she says her experts could have proved that that didn’t mean she had sex after the Bryant encounter, because “it was old sperm – there were no tails left on the sperm,” so it couldn’t have come from a recent ejaculation. (emphasis mine)

But nobody ever heard any of the rebuttal (nor the prosecution’s challenge that the test sample was also contaminated). All that the public heard was the charge, which came in a most suspicious way – the court mistakenly e-mailed this closed-door testimony to dozens of news organizations. This was the fourth time that court clerks had revealed information that was supposed to remain sealed until the trial. Although every leak hurt the prosecution, Easter says she accepts the court’s contention that all were simply mistakes made by court personnel.

“We never had a chance to submit a case,” she says. “The defense used the media to color the public opinion. We had gone through two days of jury selection [before the accuser pulled out], and I was very, very pleased with the open-minded [candidates]. They entertained the possibility that the media had been leading them astray.”

Why this bothers me, even though I obviously didn't know anyone involved personally, is that it set the tone or continued setting the tone for how sexual assault victims are treated. They are not believed. They are slandered, their lives are torn apart, and their abuser can walk away with their lives better than ever. Their abuser can be amazing and beloved in everyone's eyes, and everyone can think the abuser is the victim instead. The victim can be forgotten, or only remembered with vile names. And others who have been sexually assaulted or abused are taught to remain silent, so the same won't happen to them.

That's a very heavy price to pay for a choice she didn't even make.

I didn't wish death on him. I'm not happy he's dead. I don't even think it was karma. I think it was tragic.

I'm allowed to feel for his victim too.

R.I.P. to everyone on that helicopter.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Silverhopes!

I am, in no way, a dude that loves basketball. But I do respect when a phenom comes along and completely dominates a sport and can transcend his profession.

That being said, Kobe (allegedly) did unspeakable things. And only he should be held accountable for those things.

But for those he left behind (his wife, who not only lost her husband, but lost a daughter) I can only pray for and send my well wishes.

He has passed on, and no longer must answer to his life's choices.

But I know I would never, in the presence of his widowed wife and other kids who lost their father, parade his past offenses in front of him.

By most measures, he was a good father to his kids and ultimately (after much public scrutiny) was a good husband.

I'm not justifying what he may or may not have done. But he strove to be better in every aspect of his life. That should be noted.

I cannot and will not judge him, ultimately. I know he inspired millions. It's not my job or desire to diminish that. None of us are perfect. I am saddened on many different levels.

Can you even imagine being Vanessa? The pain and loss she has experienced in her 37 years. By all accounts it appear Kobe had matured into a responsible husband and father. The best was yet to come. I am a spiritual person and the plan is written.

I was following her on IG, smiling at her beautiful family wondering how she found forgiveness. She was a hero. Family was important, marriage long term was important. She easily could have divorced, moved on, remarry...but she chose to stay and so did he.

RIP

ann1960..Amen

By most measures, he was a good father to his kids and ultimately (after much public scrutiny) was a good husband

We have absolutely no idea. Truly, if he were a shitty husband, how would we know? We would only know if his daughters or wife said something, and why would they? I HOPE he was a good husband and father, and regardless, they lost two people they love, but we know NOTHING about their private lives.

But I know I would never, in the presence of his widowed wife and other kids who lost their father, parade his past offenses in front of him.

And what about the victims of abuse? I am more inclined to believe an accuser, and what is it like when your abuser receives all this praise? That hurts.

He was a great basketball player. Maybe a great dad. Maybe a great husband. An accused rapist. All this can be true, and i don't see why a survivor's truth matters less than the family's.

nobody” consensually hooks up with a famous guy, he hits it and quits it because “it” is constantly and easily available from the next girl, girl sees $$$ i

It is possible. Which happens more often? The vast majority of the time rape accusations are real. I do not ghink the humiliation the "nobody" receives is worth it.

She was a hero. Family was important, marriage long term was important. She easily could have divorced, moved on, remarry...but she chose to stay and so did he.

Who knows what went on in their lives? And maybe divorce would have been better. And if he actually redeemed himself and became faithful and was not a rapist, then that is amazing and she was lucky to be married to him. And if he was a shit husband, what is so great about being long term? We know nothing about their lives. She may have chosen to stay because he became a good man. She may have chosen to stay because financially it made more sense.

Unlike Cosby, Weinstein, Epstein, etc., we don't have scores of women coming forward claiming he assaulted them too. This was the only allegation made against him

True. Bit not all rapists are serial rapists. I jist find it really hard to believe she made it up. She received such backlash. And he was so beloved, she would have known the backlash would happen.

I want to start out by saying I am a HUGE basketball fan - over ALL other sports. I became a fan when my Dad took me to see a Harlem Globtrotter's game when I was a kid. I keep up with college ball and the NBA. I even go to basketball games for my local high school even if I don't know anyone playing. I love to watch anyone play basketball. I was athletic but never played basketball since it was clear after 7th grade that I'd never get over 5 foot tall.

Having said all that ... I loved watching Kobe play. He was in a class all his own. Went straight to pro after high school. I loved watching the Lakers -- love the Warriors, the Thunder, Toronto and ALL the teams.

As for his personal life, I think he and his wife totally and fully recovered and I don't think he ever strayed again as his focus was totally on his family. I saw him on the Jimmy Kimble showi and he said his family -- his daughters -- were the most important people in his life. He said all four of his daughters were his princesses. I was so very sad to learn of the other three young girls, friends of his daughter - were victims too.

I recall being sad when he retired, so young. So I turned my focus on watching LaBron James, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook - and all the other greats.

I cried for Kobe's wife and his three princesses left to live life without him and their daughter and sister.

[This message edited by Jeaniegirl at 1:59 AM, January 29th (Wednesday)]

but we know NOTHING about their private lives.

And that's literally true of EVERYONE outside our own home. Doesn't stop us from making assumptions based on what we see.

His wife filed for divorce, but didn't ultimately divorce him. She had two more children with him. He did acknowledge his victim's pain, which is more than a lot of these assholes ever do. I believe he changed. No, I don't KNOW. But we have no evidence to believe he kept being a cheater or rapist.

Like SilverHope, I can hold two feelings--grief for the death of a basketball legend, father, husband---and anger at what he did all those years ago.

Can you even imagine being Vanessa?

Can't pretty much everyone hear imagine it. Anyone that has ever lost a loved one or has lived through infidelity can not just imagine it, but also commiserate with her pain from first hand experience. There are over 70k members here that likely have similar suffering, just minus the international media coverage.

It is a very sad story of loss and betrayal that thousands of not famous people equally suffer from every day. I feel for Vanessa in the same way I feel for all the terribly pain filled tragic stories of most folks here.

He was a great basketball player, he was an adulterer (his wife file for divorce in 2011 because of continued infidelities) and possibly a rapist. That’s it, all this other stuff, hero, blah, blah blah is just sensationalism. I can’t imagine how painful this is for the accuser in the 2003 incident if it were true and it probably is. An entire country viewing this man as a hero. Just wow, WOW!

No, iBonnie, I had not read his statement back in 2003 at the time—or if I had, I had forgotten. I don’t know what the truth is. If he is guilty, then I am sorry his victim didn’t get legal justice. I couldn’t give any less of a rat’s ass about basketball but I am aware he was a gifted athlete—my considering the tragedy unfortunate is not because of the loss of a “hero” or “zomg what a loss to the bball community”—it’s sorrow for his wife and living children left behind, as I feel for all the victims—for a life taken at 41–for feeling it extremely dispassionate that he should be told to “burn in hell” for something that might not even have happened as alleged—again, if i died suddenly at my age, which is within a few years of his, I would hate to be castigated for my sins in that fashion by a world of people who don’t know me when there are grieving family members left behind.