SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Glad you are back and writing out all the things that led to where you are now.

BS Here-

I am going to ask you a question.

What about your girls nights out?

You were very adamant that you deserved to be trusted, but continued to drag that trust through the mud.

Have you decided how to fix his distrust during those times and your entitlement to them?

I ask because he is going to be in those panic attacks every time you go close to any of your APs (Like the bank). You dismissed this before.

Regret vs Remorse.

Regret - You feel bad because you know you did wrong and want him to move on to make you feel better.

Remorse - You feel bad because he feels bad and want him to feel better.

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 1:50 PM, February 6th (Thursday)]

You are now facing a quandary at what point do you stop? What is enough for SD? Your ICs seem to be asking you to convince SD to stop digging, but SD does not seem to want to stop yet.

RocketRacoon -much of what you have said is stuff we've already decided upon mutually, with our IC/MC's help.

The therapists aren't trying to get me to convince my BH to stop. They're trying to convince my BH directly themselves... he’s trying to convince himself too & I was pretty successful for many months with not digging nor pushing me to.

When his therapist first told him to set a time to stop in the beginning of September he took it upon himself to stop searching himself but he asked that if he’s not doing it than it is my responsibility to continue.

Now our MC says it has to stop from both of us. Looking back is in fact becoming compulsive like Chamomiletea has said-

I had to MAKE myself stop. I already had plenty of info with which to make a stay or go decision and the frenetic search for more was just feeding my anxiety. IOW, I wasn't protecting myself at that point so much as hurting myself by choosing to stay in that obsessive/compulsive space.

Your BH will either realize it on his own or he won't. You can't control that. BS's have their own work to do, and like WS's the issues stretch all the way back to whatever is in our trauma history.

ChamomileTea- this is all very true and my BH is very aware. He is working very hard to come to terms with this. It is so understandable about his fear of another dday. As time went on he did actively stop for almost 3 months. It is true though that while he did stop himself, he designated the detective work as my work in R and that’s what the MC says must stop now.

I am going to ask you a question.

What about your girls nights out?

You were very adamant that you deserved to be trusted, but continued to drag that trust through the mud.

Have you decided how to fix his distrust during those times and your entitlement to them?

DoinBettr- my BH trusted me during my GNO’s and that was never the issue. He did fear that I may run into AP when we went near the bank or A- related locations. GNO’s hurt him bc of how I used going out with friends while I was having my A’s.

Over time they have become far less frequent. He doesn’t want to stop me from going out with girlfriends. He wants me to be more aware of how the GNO’s trigger him. Since those early days I have become more sensitive. It helps him to know that I am aware of his triggers and even somewhat triggered myself.

I want you both to be happy. You are young and have years and years ahead. All I know is we can do anything we put our hearts into. I've made bad decisions and I was just a young dummy. I was shortsighted and thought this or that would make me happy. I don't know why I did half the things I did looking back on it. I didn't think it through.

I forget lots of past stuff too. That's a real thing. My WS won't tell me the truth except what I could catch him on and its just killing us. BS always worry there's more. At some point you just decide to let it go and trust or not. Living in fear is not living the life you were meant for.

Going through this myself i realized I had too much expectation on others. I put the focus back on myself. This is a good place to learn and grow. Anything you do to help yourself helps others. Most WS do not come here or they are not posting. It's a hard thing to do. I hope you get encouragement here and come out of these tough times. That's what we want for each other is for us all to move to the times when we can enjoy living without sadness and worry.

When his therapist first told him to set a time to stop in the beginning of September he took it upon himself to stop searching himself but he asked that if he’s not doing it than it is my responsibility to continue.

Yikes, it is a tough one.

Guess the 'revelations' that you get do not help the matter. What does your IC/MC say about how to handle the sudden remembering of events? How can this loop be broken?

Again, no judgment, and no response needed if you are not comfortable to answer. Am just curious what the IC/MC's solution would be, as it is a tough situation to be in.

It is true though that while he did stop himself, he designated the detective work as my work in R and that’s what the MC says must stop now.

Well, that definitely puts you in the unenviable position of either feeding the neurotic behavior or appearing to look like you're hiding things. And yeah... "neurotic" sounds like a strong word, but having been through it myself, I can admit that's what it was. It's a frenetic, obsessive/compulsive energy caused by anxiety which, when allowed to run rampant, just grows more anxiety.

As BS, we're never going to know everything. We can't look into another person's head and experience events, not only knowing the actions but the emotions which went along with it. And THAT's what we're looking for, but of course... it's always out of reach because it's not possible.

At a certain point, I just had to trust that I knew enough to decide my future, and that if I was wrong about R, I was damned sure ready and willing to change course and that I would be FINE with it. I got crushed like a bug by my WH's infidelity. Seriously. Total tear down. So, what did I have to lose at that point? Maybe he'd cheat again? Been there done that, got the T-shirt. I had to realize that I had indeed survived, and that if it turned out my fWH wasn't trustworthy and if he cheated again, I'd handle that too... and better than before. In the meantime, I was just robbing MYSELF of contentment and sanity.

You're in a tough spot, caught between your work and your BH's. Just remember that the most important thing after trust is broken is to make sure that you're consistently HONEST. Nothing else is more important than that. The obsessive/compulsive questioning is keeping your BH unhappy and anxious, but HE's the one who's in charge of that. Your job is to just keep being honest. If that means answering the same question for the three hundred and thirty-second time, so be it. It's not the healthiest scenario, but it's not as damaging as anything which can be construed as stonewalling. Hopefully, your WH will find a way to get ahead of his fears.

If it helps any, I do agree with your IC/MC.. but you might need some more time and patience to get it implemented. Your BH has to get fully onboard, and it's unlikely he'll do that until he realizes that he can survive... and thrive, no matter what the future brings.

In general, I think people are giving you good feedback on this. However, given the nature of how you’ve handled revealing details of your As and the relative “newness” of all the information it is reasonable to continue to examine your memory for additional betrayals of your BH. If you get any sense the MC is encouraging “moving on” despite BH telling her he needs this, I think it is time for a new MC.

Can I ask a general question here? I just connected the dots to your husband, on whose thread I have previously commented. I’ll say the same thing to you I said to him:

There is only dubious empirical support for the notion of repressed memories. It was first postulated from Freudian theories (which have been almost wholly repudiated within the scientific community). Scientific conclusions on it are decidedly mixed.

In other words it is mostly considered a make believe phenomenon, and even those advocating for the theory admit it is exceedingly rare.

Which means it is very unlikely you actually have repressed memories you’re suddenly remembering.

The alternative explanations are not very palatable for why you would claim to forget huge swathes or your life which just so conveniently seem to center around acts of infidelity.

For example, unless you’ve stated otherwise, you haven’t claimed repressed memories about being married or having kids or other big areas of your life — nope, it only seems to happen when you’ve appropriated for yourself the “right” to screw around. Then suddenly, ooops I forgot about that!

I think everyone here deserves a better explanation for why you think claiming repressed memories is legitimate, given the scant empirical, scientific, real world evidence for such a claim.

Also it’s not like you’re 70 years old and claiming to suddenly remember things from decades ago. No you’re asking us to believe a 33 year old woman conveniently forgot all about sexual escapades that happened only a few short years ago. It’s all fairly dubious.

Hi. You know I’ve followed your story since you came here. I don’t know about repressed memories and whether it’s real or not. There’s been trauma in my life and I’ve blocked some of those things, but it’s not a forgetting kind of thing but more of I don’t think about them.

Anyway, what’s more important I think is to understand who you were and what you were thinking when you betrayed your BH over and over again. You weren’t repressing memories then and you weren’t in a fugue state. Those were repeated conscious choices. I understand not looking back but to me I don’t know how you move forward without a better understanding of what drove that behavior. And then, what’s changed? Why are you different? I mean internally, emotionally, mentally. How can you legitimately believe you won’t hurt your BH without understanding yourself better? How can he believe and trust that?

I think you have a lot of work ahead of you and I mean real work with professional help. Focusing on your marriage is important but this is just as important if not even more so. This work will help you understand yourself and become the person you want to be. I know that sounds so cheezy, but it’s true. Don’t ignore this part even though it will be very hard and gut-wrenching. Not to make light of what’s ahead of you, but I have this vision of the shrunken head on the bus in Harry Potter saying “It’s going to be a bumpy ride!” But if you do it I really believe the payoff to you and your BH will be worth it.

Anyway, what’s more important I think is to understand who you were and what you were thinking when you betrayed your BH over and over again. You weren’t repressing memories then and you weren’t in a fugue state. Those were repeated conscious choices. I understand not looking back but to me I don’t know how you move forward without a better understanding of what drove that behavior. And then, what’s changed? Why are you different? I mean internally, emotionally, mentally. How can you legitimately believe you won’t hurt your BH without understanding yourself better? How can he believe and trust that?

MrsWalloped Both my BH and myself are very much aware that while I was betraying him I knew what I was doing. I cheated on my husband just like all the other waywards here. I never fooled myself into thinking this wouldn’t hurt my BH if he were to find out or that what I was doing was ok. I very much believe that I felt terrible about what I was doing and regretted it while I was having the A’s.

As far as my memories-I didn’t repress my AP’s as sexual partners. I revised the timeline so that when I had sex with them it was prior to my BH being in my life. This was a coping mechanism. I know it’s different bc your A was decades into your marriage but given your FOO, do you believe that if you ended the A of your own accord and your BH discovered it many years later that you would have had similar difficulties? There’s no way you can really answer that, I know.

There is so much work that I have to do! A year ago I was in complete denial that I had any problems. I had excuses and idealized my childhood and my entire life really. I just got this book. It’s very difficult for me to find the time to read but I know it’s important and therefore it takes priority. It’s called “The Emotionally Absent Mother: How to Recognize and Heal the Invisible Effects of Childhood Emotional Neglect”

Thumos I am not here to argue or try to teach you something. If you’d like to try to understand more about memories, repression etc and how it relates to my life you can look into childhood emotional neglect, dismissive avoidant attachment and intrafamilial trauma. Like I mentioned earlier, I did not claim to forget I was having an A at the time of the A’s.

pureheartkit all I can say to you is that you truly have a pure heart!

My BH knows how obsessive compulsive the detective work can be and once he goes down that rabbit hole it is very difficult to climb out. His fear is entirely understandable. Neither of us believe our IC’s/MC’s are wrong about it being time to look forward and recover.

@Change4TheBetter, I have been browsing your threads.

I am wondering, if you exhibited this much disdain for SaddestDad when the two of met, why you even bothered going on a second date. Did you want to or were you compelled. This may be a tough but worthwhile question for you to be asking yourself.

This whole thread has to be a very tough read for many men, nevermind someone who is actually in SD's position. This seems like quite an extreme example of the trope about how many a woman has one track for the guys she fools around with i.e., the Cads the guys who inspire lust; and has another track for the man she decides to marry i.e., the Dads the stable reliable "safe" guy.

I bring this up because SD deep down may be wondering the same thing. And no man wants to feel that his wife is with him only because he is stable and safe, that he doesn't inspire the same sexual attraction she felt with the other guys she hooked up with.

And I also wonder if you are having so much trouble remembering things, precisely because there is stuff you have trouble admitting even to yourself.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 1:39 PM, February 8th (Saturday)]

do you believe that if you ended the A of your own accord and your BH discovered it many years later that you would have had similar difficulties?

I think this would be a legitimate question for someone who had had an affair years ago. It would be difficult to put together an exact time line.

But,at the time of your fist dday, you had been married less than 5 years.

I also agree with the above member, who said it's understandable why your husband keeps digging. You are less than a year out,and have had several ddays,and you can't remember things until he finds something. I don't see his digging as paranoia,or obsessive. The man is trying to get to the entire truth, something you can't give him.

Considering the most recent discovery was not too long ago,it seems a bit ridiculous for anyone to tell him to stop digging. As if he doesn't deserve to know what has happened in his marriage?

Both my BH and myself are very much aware that while I was betraying him I knew what I was doing.

So what are your whys? What drove you to that behavior? Why did you repeat it with different AP’s? What was going on in your head at the time? How did you feel about your BH? What has changed since then? What’s different?

I cheated on my husband just like all the other waywards here.

No one else matters. I understand the defensiveness, but the point of questions is to get you to think differently, not attack you.

I very much believe that I felt terrible about what I was doing and regretted it while I was having the A’s.

Yet you continued. I understand this but have you explained why to your BH? Do you understand why?

As far as my memories-I didn’t repress my AP’s as sexual partners. I revised the timeline so that when I had sex with them it was prior to my BH being in my life. This was a coping mechanism.

Thanks for the clarification. I misunderstood.

do you believe that if you ended the A of your own accord and your BH discovered it many years later that you would have had similar difficulties?

I don’t know, but more importantly, this thread isn’t about me.

There is so much work that I have to do!

Agreed.

It’s very difficult for me to find the time to read but I know it’s important and therefore it takes priority.

What you prioritize depends on what you decide is important. If it is important to you then you will prioritize your healing and the work you need to do for yourself, for him, for your children and for your M. If not, then you won’t. It’s not any more complicated than that.

This seems like quite an extreme example of the trope about how many a woman has one track for the guys she fools around with i.e., the Cads the guys who inspire lust; and has another track for the man she decides to marry i.e., the Dads the stable reliable "safe" guy.

There’s a very short phrase for this and I’m pretty sure almost everyone knows it — but it gets denied all the time and if you say it, well off with your head. But this thread seems to confirm this phrase and acronym lock, stock and smoking barrel.

Change4,

Thanks for posting every honest WW helps me with my W, so you are doing a public good.

You are also helping others,who cant afford it, to benefit from the counseling you pay for, oddly enough.

I'll go further and say you are creating witness to your behavior who you might feel you will disappoint if this happens again.

I found it interesting that you said you felt superior to your BH, I think for a long time my W had a need to feel that way too.

My W family always felt higher class and wealthier than others in her culture. I think this was part of the reason she felt entitled to cheat on me, and she felt I was lucky to have her.

C4TB,

I’m going to be honest with you, I refrained from reading your posts till now because the one time I did read your thread it upset me on behalf of SD, & also from a betrayed point of view, I posted out of anger & frustration,

I can’t say I won’t do that again but I assure you I will think before posting on your threads in the future.

I’m sorry it’s taken a lot for you to get to this point but glad you are where you are now.

Better late than never.

I hope the darker days start filling with some light.

Your husband has shown such strength, he’s a very remarkable man, he’s funny, caring & a true gentleman,

I hope you can finally see & love him like he deserves.

I truly do wish you BOTH the best of luck in your future together.

It's interesting that you have come to this conclusion:

I truly believe that the way I treated my BH stemmed from my being a dismissive avoidant. I am not saying that was the reason for the A’s and I am not using this as an excuse.

Interesting because I read some of your story as told by your BS and honestly, I thought that so much of what he described was identical to my WH - who is also, you guessed it, a dismissive avoidant (as diagnosed by his IC). He has other issues for sure...and he will likely never write a list like you did, but it seems pretty accurate, for what it's worth.

There’s a very short phrase for this and I’m pretty sure almost everyone knows it — but it gets denied all the time and if you say it, well off with your head. But this thread seems to confirm this phrase and acronym lock, stock and smoking barrel.

That seems strange to me, I don't know how one can heal without addressing what may have been really happening, no matter how taboo or painful.

I think all this stuff about "dismissive avoidance" ect is rationalizations frankly. I do think what I posted is what was really going on. This combined with a lack of being able to see someone else as a person with their own hopes and dreams, as opposed to a means to an end i.e., a ticket to marriage and a 'respectable' family life.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 1:30 PM, February 14th (Friday)]

I am wondering, if you exhibited this much disdain for SaddestDad when the two of met, why you even bothered going on a second date. Did you want to or were you compelled. This may be a tough but worthwhile question for you to be asking yourself

.

WontBeFooledAgai I did not disdain SD, however, I can admit and see why it came across that way. Particularly bc I wasn’t truly in love with him for such a long time. I connected with him immediately. I saw what a wonderful person he was and knew that this is a man I can spend the rest of my life with.

I wish I did the right thing from the start. I wish I battled those demons and did the right thing and ended the A’s years ago. I wish I could go back in time and learn many lessons about myself sooner in order to avoid all of this- really, who doesn’t?!

I know there are WS’s that don’t want to do the work. That want to rug sweep or that just run away. I don’t think many people from the get go just “get it” and that’s why I’ve been here alongside SD. That’s why I’m back again. All BS’s require different things from their WS’s as well. It took me some time to focus on my BH’s unique needs and not just do the obvious.

“Considering the most recent discovery was not too long ago,it seems a bit ridiculous for anyone to tell him to stop digging. As if he doesn't deserve to know what has happened in his marriage?”

Hellfire this is all true. We are one year out from dday 1 but I’ve had to remind myself on a daily basis that it’s just about a month out from our last dday and that has reset the clock.

“So what are your whys? What drove you to that behavior? Why did you repeat it with different AP’s? What was going on in your head at the time? How did you feel about your BH? What has changed since then? What’s different?”

MrsWalloped These are all excellent questions. I’ve answered them all to my BH but I need to take the time to answer them here. That will be helpful for everyone here to get a clearer picture as well.

My BH is in fact a truly remarkable man whom I am so grateful for every minute of every day. He has endured so much pain from my hand and he stays bc he has faith in me. I know that he knows he can walk away at any time.

I have benefitted so much from SI. There has been SO much controversy over my posts. I’m not always able to express my self clearly and we tend to come back when we are going through a rough patch.

For those that have been concerned, we appreciate it, truly. We have been to counselors, spoken with mentors, etc and I’m just going to say here that my BH knows me better than I know myself. SD does not question my remorse or my memory.

I’m back here to do my work. To become a safe partner for SD. To heal myself and make sure I never do anything like this every again. I’m here to support SD and his healing.

For those with helpful advice, inquiries and insights that promote thought and new realizations I truly appreciate your time and efforts. For those that have been triggered and upset by what I’ve done, I apologize and I’m sorry I have caused additional pain to you. For so many of you that have been with us this last year and have encouraged and supported each of us on the forum and via PM’s, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. This is a wonderful community that I wish we never knew from but I am so thankful it is here in our time of need.

I’m back to update and ask for advice.

We’ve had a good week. Tonight my BH went to his PCP across from the sbux where I first met my AP. After he picked up a script he went to that sbux for coffee. I panicked inside. I tried calling a few times but he didn’t want to speak on the phone. I began messaging with him telling him how much I love him and expressing how sorry I was to create this crime scene so close to home and asking if he wants to talk. I was at the dr with my daughter and told him I would be going in and that I was here for him and again expressed much I love him. I was already imagining he was quite dark and he wasn’t responding other than intermittent “ok” ‘s.

I texted him after we finished and told him I would be dropping our daughter off with my parents who were watching our son and I would come meet him. He said “ok” and sent a picture from inside the Starbucks. I drove her straight over and headed over to the sbux all without calling my BH. This was just over 20 min from when I first texted that I would come. I didn’t think to call or text from the time I dropped her off or while I was heading over. I texted him when I was 5 min away and didn’t receive his message that said “don’t bother” until I got there and he had already left.

The night went south pretty fast from that point on. We had a very similar scenario last week and it generally stems from BS getting very upset which sends me into a panic mode. Once I’m in this mode I’m highly anxious, panicked and I can’t think clearly. My mind races, my heart beats out of my chest and I feel like I can’t breathe. I act quickly, rashly and don’t stop to consider every word that I type or say bc I’m in fight or flight mode and I’m trying to react quickly in a panic to rapidly fix the situation. This almost always inevitably leads to my doing something that rightfully upsets my BH. I know the right thing for me is to stop, work through my breathing so I can recover enough to think clearly. Asking for this from my BH almost always upsets him. He takes it that I don’t care, that I am ignoring him or as a misstep on my part. I feel like I’m then forced btw a rock and a hard place. All I want is to do what he needs but if I don’t get that time I always fuck up multiple times before I can get it right. All the meanwhile this pushes me further into a panic that I’m upsetting him further.

Prior to this (even prior to any ddays) I would talk back. I would immediately gaslight, minimize, detach, hang up or become passive aggressive (or even outright aggressive.) I work so hard and I don’t revert immediately to these defenses anymore and when I do I catch myself quickly or if BH points it out I acknowledge, apologize and stop immediately. The problem is that this new high anxiety panic is really not better. This is a pattern I need to break- and fast!