SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Okay, this is going against the grain a bit. I do believe that BS get that sixth sense thing. I know you know your wife better than any of us could.

BUT - and this is a huge WHAT IF - But what if it's the fact she has already trickle truthed you leaving you feeling that you don't have everything but there isn't anything else? If someone lies, lies, lies, there just comes a point that even after they have come clean about it you would have that lingering doubt.

I guess is there something bigger than a gut feeling here telling you that she hasn't told you everything? Something that is specifically not answered in a way that makes sense with all the other things you know? Maybe that is where you can form your polygraph question.

Now, playing the other angle...if it were me this is what the polygraph question would be:

Have you had affairs with others in the past?

That's where my spidey senses go when I read your post without the benefit of the doubt. I only added benefit of the doubt for no other reason than it wasn't mentioned, and if someone lied enough to me it would give me a feeling of paranoia? I don't know that's the word I would really like to use but I can not come up with one in it's place.

My WW has been working so hard toward R. She is pouring herself into our marriage in hopes that she can undo the pain she has caused me during her multiple As. Despite what she has done, I love her so much and want R more than anything I've ever wanted.

Well you are in a precarious situation. If you want to R more than anything, then you are depending on your WW good will to give you the truth, and she doesn’t have much incentive to do so.

If you want to end your suffering, you will need to set a limit on what you accept and what you don’t accept. Those limits is for YOU to get out of infidelity and stop your suffering.

I suggest something like this (with your own words)

"WW, I love you and I want nothing but to R with you. The process of R is a process to build a new marriage and a marriage can only be built on TRUTH and TRUST. No truth, no new marriage is possible. To that end, I would need a detailed timeline of ALL of your affairs, which will be verified with a Poly.

I might be able to R with the truth, but I won’t be able to R with half truths and lies. I do not want to D and that’s my least favorite option, but I will not rebuild a new marriage based on lies "

Just change the text to your personality, and make sure you can follow through with D if needed. You can’t build a new marriage on a foundation of lies, it won’t work.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 3:51 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)]

because I've told her that any more TT or lies and I'm done

THERE, is where you screwed up. I did the same thing, gave an ultimatum and no more information came to me after that. My wife said that she had sex with POSOM 5 times in a year. I told her anymore and I was done. Well , I have figured that she had sex with him at least 3 times in the first 5 weeks. WOW only 2 more times in the next 10 months! Sounds like bullshit to me. FEELS like bullshit. But there we are.

Ultimatums feel good but they do not work except in the opposite that you want them too.

Bigger... this is truly sage advice.

Tell her that you feel she’s hiding something and that your emotions are holding back your ability and will to reconcile. Tell her that you know what you said about TT, but that if there is something left that she needs to or should share with you then you are willing to hear it now. You are recanting on your threat for now.

If she insists you know all, then ask her how she suggests you get over your feeling that she’s hiding something. Suggest a poly and see her response. Insist on a poly but tell her that since you have already offered her an amnesty now to fully tell you the truth, then failing a poly would be a MAJOR stumbling block and could completely kill your will to reconcile.

I'm going to do just that when I get home tonight.

hikingout - I'm glad you posted. I've thought about the possibility that she really is done lying. At which point she'd be OK with a polygraph and will pass it. That would be such a wonderful day. I'll take Bigger's advice I think. your question isn't the question I would ask her as the answer would be 'yes'. She's had 5 affairs as it turns out. I think the question I would ask her is "Are you purposefully hiding something important from me that you don't want me to know". I worry so much the answer will come back 'yes'.

ShutterHappy - this is great

"WW, I love you and I want nothing but to R with you. The process of R is a process to build a new marriage and a marriage can only be built on TRUTH and TRUST. No truth, no marriage is possible. To that end, I would need a detailed timeline of ALL of your affairs, which will be verified with a Poly.

I might be able to R with the truth, but I won’t be able to R with half truths and lies. I do not want to D and that’s my least favorite option, but I will not rebuild a new marriage based on lies "

its very similar to Bigger's advice. I think you're right that i've backed myself into a corner with the ultimatum and she needs a way to come clean. I will do that.

No story is the same, but here's mine.

DDay 1, I confronted WH after finding some flirty emails on his phone from/to a co-worker. First question: Did you sleep with her? Answer: No, I have always been faithful to you. 2nd question: Did you kiss her? WH: Yes.

Lots of crying, hysterical bonding, establishing NC with a person he still worked closely with, therapy, etc. ensues. I often ask if he's lying. Often. I ask him to tell me if his penis has EVER been anywhere I don't know. I probably asked 1000 times. Every time, no. Of course not. You are the only person I've ever been with, the only one I have ever trusted.

TWO YEARS GO BY. I've lost 20 pounds, losing hair, PTSD symptoms, can't kiss him bc it's what he did with her. But our relationship is really getting better. We fell in love again after 20 years together.

DDay 2, he confesses to sex with her. He said it was because he'd evolved so much that he knew letting me have the info and the truth no matter what happened, that I deserved it.

A few days later I had a time, and a few weeks later I had a poly to back up the timeline and whether or not he planned on leaving.

INSTANTLY after I knew the truth, that nagging feeling went away. It is INSANE how our bodies just know things. I HATED his car that he drove during the A. After DDAy 1 I didn't want to be in it (even though I was). I had asked if she'd ever been in it and got a no. Turns out he'd gotten a blow job on the way home from the business trip where they consummated their relationship for the first (x6) time and then had sex with her in that car a few days after that. I actually cried when he was looking for a new car and thought about getting the same car, but a newer model. I just HATED it. Even though I didn't know anything physical had happened in it.

(Interestingly enough before spontaneous DDay 2, I also had dreams (multiple) about finding out that he slept with her. In one, I went and had revenge sex with the other BS in her home and we videotaped it and sent it to them. How messed up is that? I'd never had a dream like that before or after.)

Anyways, long story shorter is that I think a poly is a good idea. That nagging feeling of mine went away after I got the truth. TBH I didn't even need the poly. He was vomiting truth (even confessed to a bj that he received while we were broken up in college for a semester) and had no reason to lie. I had always told him that I would leave if he had sex with her. And I probably would have that first day. (Which is why he colluded with the cOW to keep the secret, he knew I would make it VERY public about why I was leaving, so he was mostly covering his own image and his ability to keep working at the company - she is also very image conscious/had a family so she had a reason to lie as well once she figured out my WH wasn't leaving me for her.)

You truly never know what you'll do, but the truth feels good. I do feel at peace with that part. I feel like I know the truth. And whether or not my marriage can survive now? Only time will tell.

I'm sorry you are in this situation and hope you get some peace.

I worry so much the answer will come back 'yes'.

That's a legitimate worry, to be sure. But isn't it worse not knowing? Or not being able to accept beyond an acceptable degree of doubt that you have the truth you need to decide what you want the rest of your story to look like?

Put it this way, if you decide to just 'let the lie lie' so you can stay married, and somehow the truth comes out 6 months from now, or a year from now after you'd been attempting R how do you think you'd feel? (Speaking from first-hand experience, getting more truth 9 months later when you thought you were in R sucks ass). Look, it's truly a rock and a hard place and either way you go is a tough decision. It's just a matter of figuring what YOU can live with at this point. Just my 0.02.

Ellie:

It's just a matter of figuring what YOU can live with at this point.

I think that's it in a nutshell. I know I simply cannot live without knowing.

I'll talk to her tonight.

I hope your situation gets resolved tonight, no matter how difficult.

Oh and have you informed the OBS yet?

My caveat to this:

Consider this, if she thinks it's worth divorce and that's why she's hiding it, then it probably is.

Is this:

Most of the stuff my WH TTed (which luckily for me was very little in the grand scheme) seem more important to me now precisely because he didn't come out with it from the get go. The reality is that it was just more of the same. In the middle of his renewed affair with her, they had sex once (confirmed by forensic analysis of the phone and her messages pining away about how "it had been so long since..."). I was pretty certain it had happened, but could not prove it at that point - and he denied denied denied. It made no difference - they had been sending i love yous back and forth daily, stealing kisses in the parking lot (behind a dumpster no less) and all the other bullshit - they probably had sex 50 times before dday 1. I did not give a shit about 1 more time - it made no difference...except that he lied about it. That was the difference and the only difference to me.

So, it may not be some huge deal - and the reality is after what has happened - the only huge deal is the lie. Why do they hold onto this shit??? Who knows.

There is a poster on here whose WS had a 10 year LTA. When caught, he lied and said it was 5 years, and then clung to that 5 year lie for over a year before being caught in that lie, when he was forced to admit it had been 10 instead. Would it have been much different had he said 10 in the beginning? Nope - not really. 5 years, 10 years - it's all fucking terrible. But instead, now, that other 5 years is a HUGE deal because he lied and insisted that he was not for a year, before getting caught, after admitting to a 5 year LTA. Did he somehow think 5 wasn't as bad as 10?!?! It's crazy town.

So I would submit, if there is something, it's something that your WS has insisted did not happen, or has denied, or whatever, and sworn on whatever to support the claim of "I'm telling the truth" when it was a lie...and now that lie is massive. It's like my WH insisting they did not have sex since X date, and then a year later, admitting on his own, that there was one other time on Y date. It was the insistence that had not happened and the subsequent lies about it for a long period that is the REALLY BIG PROBLEM for me - the fact they fucked one more time - whatever. I would have accepted that lopped in with all the rest at dday had he told the truth then - now - now it's special because of his continued deceit when he had the opportunity to tell the truth.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 1:07 PM, February 26th (Wednesday)]

@ThisIsSoLonely - I know exactly what you're talking about. The TT I learned about recently doesn't make sense that my WW was lying about! In the grand scheme of things it was a trivial lie at the time and if it came out on D-Day it would have been just one more thing I needed to think about. Now it comes out a couple days ago and I'm triggered and we made a huge backslide. WTF. I don't understand the mind of a liar!

The thing about is tho... After cheating, NO LIE IS TRIVIAL ANYMORE. Cus a lie is a lie is a lie IS A FUCKING LIE. My xwh didn't seem to be able to grasp that shit either.

Lies of omission, commission, big lies, little lies, doesn't fucking matter cus they all = LIES.

The lies are the issue IMHO. Not even really what the content of the lie is.

Lies are absolutely the issue.

The lies are what makes R impossible and kills what remains after the tornado of infidelity has torn your life apart.

Lies when discovered or new truths after thinking you have the full truth sets the healing clock back to zero.