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My WW has been working so hard toward R. She is pouring herself into our marriage in hopes that she can undo the pain she has caused me during her multiple As. Despite what she has done, I love her so much and want R more than anything I've ever wanted.

Even though she is working hard toward R, she has fallen into the WS trap of TT and 1/2 truths. Since D-day I have become an expert at being able to read her though. You know now that I don't trust her, when things don't add up and my spider sense tingles... I no longer shrug it off. Instead I dig out the truth and so far I've always been right. As a consequence I've become expert at knowing when she was hiding something or telling me a half truth. I've developed a sixth sense that has never failed.

My sixth sense is screaming at me that there is still something she's hiding... something big. I know its big because I've told her that any more TT or lies and I'm done with R and when I did that it prompted a disclosure of a whole bunch of new painful discoveries. So i'm guessing this last something she's hiding is big enough she's willing to risk D just to keep it hidden.

I'm thinking of insisting on a polygraph. I know that won't necessarily make her disclose that secret but I can confirm she is still keeping one which would be enough for D at this point. I'm pretty sure that if I insist she take a poly one of two things will happen. It will come out that she is still lying to me and we D or she will tell me this last big secret before the poly and we D. So either way insisting on a polygraph = divorce.

My real decision is do I push for a polygraph knowing this will cause D or do i let her have this last secret so we can stay married? Its driving me nuts not knowing but I don't want to D. What do you guys think?

Everyone is going to tell you to insist on the poly.

Be careful backing yourself into a corner with "if this, then" statements unless you are 100% sure you will back them up.

I didn't insist on a poly. I happen to think that forcing someone to reveal something isn't really growth and no more helpful than if they keep the secret.

The real question I had to ask myself is this, if there is more (in my case if my wife slept with the guy), are you willing to go on with the marriage and what if she never admits to whatever it is. What can you live with? Only you know.

It's always a calculated gamble if a cheater will cheat again. Following the steps that everyone here says they should helps to weed out some but it's far from gospel.

I second guess myself often. I have no idea if I have made the right choice but if my wife has more to tell me then she will have arrived at that choice to tell me out of her growth and desire to be a better person. She might not ever get to that point and there is a chance there is nothing left to tell also. It all sucks my friend and I am sorry that you are going through this.

My real decision is do I push for a polygraph knowing this will cause D or do i let her have this last secret so we can stay married?

what kind of "married" will have have with a secret? Ask for a polygraph.

I happen to think that forcing someone to reveal something isn't really growth and no more helpful than if they keep the secret.

I really disagree with this. You're not responsible for her growth. You're responsible for knowing the truth about your life.

Why spend money on a polygraph? Just proceed with divorce.

Trickle truth is a fancy way of saying they're continuing to lie.

If she is lying,she is not doing everything she can to R.

Remorseful WS are no longer lying.

She did not fall into a trap. She is choosing to lie, just as she chose to cheat.

For true reconciliation, there can be no lies. None. Any reconciliation with lies,will crumble. True reconciliation must be built on a foundation rock solid honesty.

My real decision is do I push for a polygraph knowing this will cause D or do i let her have this last secret so we can stay married?

To my view, the real decision you have to make is are you willing to stay married to someone willing to keep a huge D-worthy secret from you that prevents you being able to make an informed choice about your life and fully heal from the A?

Because the above quote doesn't jive with this one:

I know that won't necessarily make her disclose that secret but I can confirm she is still keeping one which would be enough for D at this point.

Consider this, if she thinks it's worth divorce and that's why she's hiding it, then it probably is.

You want R more than anything you have ever wanted. But you can't R by yourself. Your WW has to want R more than anything she has ever wanted. This means ending TT and coming completely clean.

You need to be able to make an informed decision about staying in the marriage. And you say not knowing is driving you nuts. The poly sounds like your best option.

Lastly, it won't be the poly which causes D, but rather her cheating.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree that if there is more info she is withholding you were never in R no matter how much she is pouring into the M. The lying is what caused the most damage to my M as it didn't matter anymore what my WS did or said to me I would never believe him again. I couldn't get that trust back.

To me a poly is something done down the road a ways to get the final belches of confession out. If you believe she is really trying hard, then confront her directly and let her know the R is coming to a screeching halt until you get more answers.

Two things jump out at me. The first, she isn't pouring herself into the marriage if she is still harboring secrets about her affair. You cannot have reconciliation with that.

Second, you’re pretty sure that a polygraph request will result in a divorce either way yet you say you want R more than anything. It would appear that you are essentially hoping some of us will say don’t do it and move forward as you were.

My husband took a polygraph. He passed it although the date of one event was incorrect. I believe he legitimately had the yeas crossed and they weren’t far off and it was something he had already confessed.

That said. In my opinion, I would never do a polygraph again. If I suspect some hidden truths so horrendous I wouldn’t stay married, I don’t need to know more. If it’s your line in the sand, then don’t cross it. Whatever you decide, be prepared to follow through. Otherwise this pattern will continue when you stay married to her.

To me a poly is something done down the road a ways to get the final belches of confession out. If you believe she is really trying hard, then confront her directly and let her know the R is coming to a screeching halt until you get more answers.

I think this is more accurately what I was trying to say when applying my situation to this one.

Sometimes a WS needs the time to grow and reach "true remorse"

A polygraph is only as good as the questions that are asked, what do you think she is hiding? What do you think it pertains too? More sex with AP, more AP's then previously know, certain types of sex acts, etc...etc...

You can't just sit her down and have the ambiguous question of "what are you not telling me" asked.

BID

The problem is that you said that you told her that TT and more disclosure = end of reconciliation.

She’s thinking why she should tell if it means the end of R and thereby the marriage.

This isn’t emotional chicken or a dare game. This is life. We can alter our rules as we go along.

I’m going to suggest this:

Tell her that you feel she’s hiding something and that your emotions are holding back your ability and will to reconcile. Tell her that you know what you said about TT, but that if there is something left that she needs to or should share with you then you are willing to hear it now. You are recanting on your threat for now.

If she insists you know all, then ask her how she suggests you get over your feeling that she’s hiding something. Suggest a poly and see her response. Insist on a poly but tell her that since you have already offered her an amnesty now to fully tell you the truth, then failing a poly would be a MAJOR stumbling block and could completely kill your will to reconcile.

Even though she is working hard toward R, she has fallen into the WS trap of TT and 1/2 truths. Since D-day I have become an expert at being able to read her though. You know now that I don't trust her, when things don't add up and my spider sense tingles... I no longer shrug it off. Instead I dig out the truth and so far I've always been right. As a consequence I've become expert at knowing when she was hiding something or telling me a half truth. I've developed a sixth sense that has never failed.

I'm sure your bullshit detector has become better calibrated than you ever thought possible, but chances are it has failed.

She has other secrets she is keeping from you in additition to what you suspect. Thing is, you don't have any idea what they are.

My sixth sense is screaming at me that there is still something she's hiding... something big. I know its big because I've told her that any more TT or lies and I'm done with R and when I did that it prompted a disclosure of a whole bunch of new painful discoveries. So i'm guessing this last something she's hiding is big enough she's willing to risk D just to keep it hidden.

Your sixth sense, gut, bullshit detector is right. Count on it.

I'm thinking of insisting on a polygraph. I know that won't necessarily make her disclose that secret but I can confirm she is still keeping one which would be enough for D at this point. I'm pretty sure that if I insist she take a poly one of two things will happen. It will come out that she is still lying to me and we D or she will tell me this last big secret before the poly and we D. So either way insisting on a polygraph = divorce.

You're probably right both ways. But can you keep living like this?

It will eat at you if you stay with her and allow her to keep some huge horrible betrayal secret from you.

My real decision is do I push for a polygraph knowing this will cause D or do i let her have this last secret so we can stay married? Its driving me nuts not knowing but I don't want to D. What do you guys think?

You are scared to learn your worst fears because you won't be able to live with yourself if they are true and you stay with her.

I think you have to polygraph her eventually.

But first exhaust your options for information retrieval and surveillance.

Run a Fonelab recovery on her phone and any old phones she has.

Phone monitoring. Keylogger. Voice Activated Recorder + some well-placed pressure might shake some thing loose.

After you have done all of that, you will have a better idea of what to even ask on a polygraph if you still need to.

You're not responsible for her growth. You're responsible for knowing the truth about your life.

This statement is so spot on read it again.

Then take a step back. It seems you want to R really really badly - What are your internal reasons for this other than you love her.

Are you afraid to D? Are you afraid to be alone? share the kids? What are the real reasons you have not pulled the D trigger up to this point.

I agree that her actions and your statements about them are incongruous. True remorse and rebuilding has to be built on a foundation of absolute truths. That said, I want to give an example of my own personal path in R.

My H was somewhat conflict avoidant and grew up in a home where his mom was forced to lie to have her own $$ and some control in her life, so he grew up seeing lies as being acceptable to "keep the peace" so to speak.

However.... it is really important for people like this to understand that telling the truth doesn't cause WWIII, and as adults we can have uncomfortable discussions and reach resolutions which is WAY better than lying and covering those lies.

When Real R started for us and I knew I had the full truth he had hurt me multiple times in the early days with broken NC and lying about it, and like you I had a 6th sense of it, and knew every single time it happened and I asked and he lied. Initially it was some limerance, and fear of being totally alone should I find my backbone and toss him out. That said when I did find my voice, my strength and my backbone, I did just that. I told him to get out the last time he broke NC w/ her. I had put a logger on the computer, and knew it the second it occurred. I returned home (from work at 8am), and handed him my rings and said I'm done being an option, and a doormat. You have 15 minutes to gather some belongings and get out. I will contact your Mom about when you can see the kids later today.

That was our real turning point. He knew I was done. He knew I would no longer tolerate another lie about his A. He completely fell apart. After consideration I decided he had one more chance. He absolutely had to send another NC email. Block her on his phone etc. He did. He also had to promise me (for what it was worth) that he would tell me without me asking everysingle time she reached out to him, no matter the method. My end of that bargain was to not fall apart, or get angry, but to have a civil discussion about it.

My second requirement was no more lies of any kind, no white lies, no minimizations, no half truths, no whopper lies. NONE. If I saw that he wasn't being truthful instead of letting it slide I was to hold him accountable and call him out on it. He too was to hold me accountable and call me out everytime I was behaving in a codependent way. We had a Bullshit rule. When we saw the unhealthy behavior in the other, we were allowed to call them out on it, discuss it, and resolve it, without the other losing their shit. It worked for us.

We became very real, and very authentic. It probably came across as quite raw to others, but it worked for us. We cut out the bullshit and were authentic, and that is when we really started to rebuild and get healthy.

So my point is this. You have somewhat backed yourself into a corner, but it is resolveable at this point. I would sit her down, and have the D documents in your hand and tell her you absolutely know there is something she hasn't shared. Now is the time to come clean and if she doesn't you will file, if she does then you can absolutely start to work toward a real rebuilding of your relationship. But make sure your reasons for wanting to rebuild are going to be enough for you to be happy and fulfilled in the future, if not then skip the drama and just file.

brokenInDenver,

I love her so much and want R more than anything I've ever wanted

I'm thinking of insisting on a polygraph. I know that won't necessarily make her disclose that secret but I can confirm she is still keeping one which would be enough for D at this point

If you have not reached the point of D yet what could she be hiding that would cause you to file for D?

If you know what would cause you to file for D and share that with her the reaction she exhibits might tell you whether to keep moving forward with R or start the D process.

I think that you are probably correct that there is still something very bad out there that is being kept secret. I also think Bigger hit the nail on the head when he said that your WW probably fears that it means instant divorce if she releases any new info.

It would seem that she's finally admitted a bunch of bad stuff but intentionally left something out.

If she thinks that owning up to this "last" thing is going to mean an end to R then she's not going to let it out. The problem is that you drew a line in the sand and if you move it even an inch you are giving her wiggle room to lie or withhold in the future.

I don't think that you'll be able to live with this "last" secret. And I hope it really is the last one.

A polygraph means divorce either way. Unless.... if she agrees to take it and passes. I guess that there is a tiny chance that your read of her is wrong. That would seem to be the only way you are not heading for divorce.

Good luck.

Figure out what is and is not a deal breaker for you.

Write it down in clear language. Keep it private.

Then get a full written confession from her with a timeline. If she did any of the above, you D.

It's like this- I read a book about the attempt to rescue the hostages taken by Iran back in the Carter/Regan years. The element that was going to conduct the rescue had to sit down and write up all possible contingency plans...everything from person X breaks their leg and can't go to a plane crashing on the way with XYZ gear in it.

In doing so, they reached certain points where the mission had to be aborted, IE- without item X, we can't do this mission...or without XYZ # of seats on aircraft, we can't move this # of people from here to here. These were hard decisions that had to be made coldly well prior to game day as everyone knew that, on game day, their emotions would be to GO no matter what.

During execution of the mission, they had multiple mechanical and navigational failures of helicopters. It left them with too few aircraft to ferry the troops and hostages. This was a red line forcing abort.

It was a bad feeling for the men who had trained so hard and invested so much, to walk away, never having reached the target. However, that decision had already been made, prior to launch and they had to walk away.

Sadly, one of the broken aircraft was trying to reposition due to bearing failure in the nose wheel, locking up the wheel...and it had to hover to do it. It crashed into a C130 and killed several troops.

There were a ton of "what if" questions...what if they had just pressed on...what if they had not followed their own plan...what if they had just fought on, regardless...

They made the right call. Sit down and write out your red lines. Figure out where you pull the ejection handle and abort mission.

From there, ask her what you need to ask, poly her...and do what you wrote out in your plan.