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Thank you every one for taking the time to reply. I won't put the stop sign as I want to hear these advices. I see the same amplified trauma in my BH daily.

I will take time to read and reread, and reply, but just really quickly, I will never ever cheat again and am reading "not just friends" to identify future red flags.

I really want R, not because of the lack of options, or panic temp remediation, but I realise how good a man my BH is. Through these months, I hv seen the strength of a man who loves me hard. Pains me deeply to know I have squandered it all.

Thank you for the videos n links for more empathy. It is a prevalent theme and I truly do struggle with it. Thank you for pointing it out.

I will never ever cheat again

that statement can be controversial..... Again, not trying to be cruel.... I'd bet a pretty penny that you already said that to yourself and your BH after dday1.

And I'd bet that you already believed that as you said your wedding vows and again as you walked down the slippery slope to EA and to PA and to breaking NC.

Personally, when I hear this from a WS, my first thought is "Oh, grasshopper.... you have much work ahead of you".

[This message edited by gmc94 at 2:32 PM, March 31st, 2020 (Tuesday)]

I asked this question before in BS Questions for WS's thread. I will ask you this same question. After DDay, and for years after (in your case, you are just now starting the journey so you have not had that much time), a WS is willing to work on the relationship, improve communication, become more intimate, and all of the things that you want to see in a positive relationship. You find yourself in the process of wanting these things now. Here are my questions. What has caused you to want to do those things NOW, instead of doing those same things BEFORE you had the A? Even with actions that show remorse, why should he believe your desires to save the marriage NOW after being treated so badly for so long? Why should he want to save the marriage with you?

Man, do I agree with gmc94. That was excellent.

I would say the odds are long in your case. The lack of empathy present in an adult is pretty tough to rectify. It is the hallmark of a Cluster B personality disorder and these are fairly intractable.

Today I have spent a lot of time mulling over what everyone has contributed to my post, so here's my thoughts.

My previous statement of "I will never ever cheat again" was awkward to type it down. Perhaps the idea of such a blanket statement to such a big issue made it sound so improbable and perhaps trigger BSs. Having such a simple statement trivialises the effort, with unwarranted hubris, and without the acknowledgement that it will be an uphill battle is being prideful.

I am fully aware of the work that is needed to, apologies for failing to make clear.

"once a cheater, always a cheater" - I know it would take extraordinary efforts to be different, to want isn't enough. I have to be.

I have no track record to assuage my BH's fears, so I can only be to show a change.

Initially i was quite confused about the statements about all being I's. I thought to myself, I am here because I want to change, I want to fix things, I want to know what to do. So why is that wrong?

But it struck me that what you kind folks are trying to tell me is to get some damn empathy for what I am putting my BH through.

Instead of what can I do, be more like how are you feeling, what are your emotions now and what I can then do to help, instead of the other way round.

Started to imagine what I would feel if it was me that was betrayed, what would i be feeling, and what i would need. Started reading up more on empathy as well.

gmc94

Do not minimize or become defensive. Instead, do what you can to validate the pain your BH is expressing. Even if your BH says things you find wrong, validate what they are feeling. There will be later times to explain how their perception differs from yours - the midst of a trigger (or flood or angry outburst) is not the time to quibble over who is "right". An easy example is a BS saying something like "I can't trust anyone because they are all liars". Rather than correcting them with "that's not true" or "only I am a liar", an empathetic response would be "I'm so sorry that my lies and living a secret sexual life has caused you to question the honor and trustworthiness of everything around you. I will do all that I can to become a person of honesty and integrity that deserves your trust".

This is very helpful for today's chats, and is something I will keep in mind for a long time.

What has caused you to want to do those things NOW, instead of doing those same things BEFORE you had the A? Even with actions that show remorse, why should he believe your desires to save the marriage NOW after being treated so badly for so long? Why should he want to save the marriage with you?

Saw the destruction of DDAY2, and look hard in the mirror, and realize that I have lived an empty life for 20 odd years. How many DDays am i going to inflict? The hiding in lies, the juggling, the lack of regard for anyone else around me, the darkness of over-independence and bad choices just hit me hard. I have amounted to nothing for so long, and now I have this chance to be different, and hopefully be able to save my M with my amazing BH. Changing who I am fundamentally is going to be tough, but it has to be done.

Snowy - I apologize if my comment about 'never cheating' was harsh. It's something that gets talked about on SI reasonably regularly. And FWIW, at this juncture, i wouldn't characterize it as a trigger for me (tho it may be for others).

It seems you got the point about the "never" statement. And it can go even broader - i.e., that words MATTER. A fucking lot. I think it's difficult for a WS who is told to communicate more and is trying to say and do the "right" things, but then uses language that doesn't grasp things a BS needs to hear/see (this may have come up in a post I did in January when my WH and I had an exchange over the definition of "lie"... and we are in year three). Other WS will have suggestions on this front, but from my BS view, it seems to require a lot of mindfulness.... about everything. One example is the tons of literature about timelines/ disclosures and the need to draft, read, edit several times in order to get to language that works (and I see this as a twofer in that it is both a training exercise for the WS to learn about the linguistics of healing and recovery and it shows the BS that the WS is taking full accountability for the behaviors). I think the cognitive dissonance, rationalizations, etc that a WS goes through seems to seep into everything, including the ways in which they communicate about the A (an easy example is the "we "just" slept together x times" - there is no "just" in sleeping with someone not your spouse... there is only I slept with them x times).

Just some random thoughts after a sleepless night.

Godspeed.

I will never ever cheat again and am reading "not just friends" to identify future red flags.

Personally, I think you will if you don't change your whys. Red flags might be great while you struggle to figure them out. If you don't, then red flags mean shit. Sorry, they just do. You already knew the flags and still did it anyways. People that don't need to cheat, really don't have to worry about the flags. You don't need attention to make you feel good, then you obviously will not flirt. Flirting and putting yourself out there being a flag. Get my meaning.

So, work on you.

Your I statements are all about what you want. Not what you should be doing.

Pains me deeply to know I have squandered it all.

You follow up most statements about how your husband has been hurt with what YOU/I want or lost. Putting it in selfish narrative or using him as an object to make you feel good/happy. Get it?

Which is normal because you are in damage control mode right now. More regret and controlling the outcome. Focusing on winning him. You need to stop and focus on fixing you. Till you are safe and trust yourself, he is never never never going to trust you.

If you keep dragging your feet in facing yourself and digging deep. You will lose him and you will cheat again or replace the cheating with some other addiction.

I will never ever cheat

You certainly would have said this when you got married.

Saw the destruction of DDAY2, and look hard in the mirror, and realize that I have lived an empty life for 20 odd years

You certainly would have said the same thing after DD1 if we asked. And we did ask.

So when we ask you what changed, you haven't given us any reason at all. Your husband (and most people here) are looking at your words and we're all seeing the same thing. Despite your "honesty" in your first thread, here you are again.

So, it probably wasn't just a kiss on the cheek to say goodbye.

Your response to your husband becoming suicidal because of your actions was to continue lying.

You are willing and able to set aside the mental health of someone you claim to love in order to have coffee with someone else.

Can you see why someone would think you are still lying just to save your ass?

I don't believe he knows everything. Want some advice? Be honest about everything. Tell him the truth about something he wouldn't be able to find out about.

Schedule a polygraph, and put your husband in contact with the administrator, so he can work with him to ask the questions he needs answered. I mean, you are telling the truth now right? This is a great way to prove it.

How can I follow this thread. This happened to me. My wH picked back up the affair a month after DDay when things in therapy supposedly got hard.

He is doing everything now to make it right but I’m reluctant to believe it.

The problem is going back and being in therapy and lying while trying......what was he intending? To have us both? Is that what you were hoping? That doesn’t make any sense. Risking the marriage once was bad enough but the second time during reconciliation? What can we believe?

Started to imagine what I would feel if it was me that was betrayed

I'm sorry but "Started"? My question is has this concept never crossed your mind? Years ago I got an email or FB message from an old boyfriend, reminiscing about old times - my first thought was oh no - my H would not like this. I guess that is the difference between people who choose to cheat and those who choose not to.