SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

crazy - you make me laugh - thanks.

He sees it as meaning something more. To me it's just an empty pitcher. He's always reading into things. For some reason he thinks he gets to set my priorities.

Apparently his pride is more important than my well being

OR

"His shame, fear, and selfishness are more important that my well being"

There. Fixed it for ya :)

You cannot fix any of that.

Only he can stop being afraid and learn how to put on his big boy pants.

Only he can learn to deal with the shame in order to open himself to empathy.

Only he can choose to stop putting himself first.

There is nothing you - or any BS - can do/say to solve that for him.

You didn't cause it

You can't control it

You can't cure it.

(and there is nothing merely "apparent" about it IMO).

Keep working on detachment. It is soooooo hard. I get it - BTDT got the tshirt. And yet, that detachment is kind of the only way thru it - regardless of the outcome.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 6:44 PM, July 30th, 2020 (Thursday)]

Thank you GMC. I think that is more accurate. I do have a huge problem detaching. I guess I should just look at that it can't get any worse so I need to do what helps my healing. If he chooses not to come along for that difficult journey than i will do it alone.

Going to give you the benefit of my experience. I hope it helps.

My H travelled extensively for his job. All over the world. One year he commuted to the opposite coast for a project. Gone Monday to Thursday. I’m home running the house, working part-time, kids, household renovations I’m doing myself etc.

I never complained. Not once. When he came home he got to sleep late to adjust to time zone changes. He wanted to play golf - no problem. He worked hard and needed to have some free time.

My thanks was two affairs. First one he denied and rugswept. I knew it was going on. Second one almost caused a D.

The thing I learned is I cannot change him. He has to want to change (and he did).

The Only thing I can change is my reaction to him.

I ended up in a phase during his affair of long protracted arguments b/c I refused to back down. He would try to manipulate me to get his way. And I would engage to the point I was in tears.

I decided at some point I was going to change the dynamics.

I decided that “no” is a complete sentence. And I had to stop reasoning and explaining myself to him.

Next I realized that I had to learn to sometimes just leave the room and not engage In conversations with him that had no point. I had to stop engaging with him. Period.

Once I stopped engaging in the pointless conversation I realized I had changed the game. He no longer had any control or say over me. A few years after the A I decided to buy a new car. I took my $ out of the bank and paid cash. I bought it in my own. He was not involved in any part of it.

If he didn’t like it - too bad. I wasn’t asking him. I was telling him. If I wanted to meet a friend for coffee - I would inform him. If he didn’t like it - too bad. It wasn’t a discussion.

Stop engaging with your H. He does not care. He’s not interested in helping you heal (mine was). When you stop responding or explaining yourself or trying to make him “get it” you will have less stress in your life.

You won’t be subjected to his archaic and outdated views on marriage. You won’t be beaten down by him.

Your stress level will decrease. I promise you.

When you do the 180 and refuse to engage he won’t know what to do. He counts on the dynamics of your relationship to beat you down to feed his ego.

Stop. Playing. His. Game.

Stop. Being. His. Target.

Stop. Explaining. Yourself.

Let him find someone else to victimize.

A number of us posted here that our H know better than to ask us to do something they can do themselves AND make comments about it being “our job”. You need to send a message (consistently) you have moved on from his drama.

Watch HIM start to twist himself into a frenzy when you change the dynamics. He won’t know what to do.

Thank you The1st that is very helpful. Going to be difficult to do but I am going to work on it. It is so hard for me to not try to make him see. It is all so crystal clear to me that it boggles my mind how he doesn't get it. I just can't understand how he doesn't understand. I have to stop letting that bother me. Just let go and work on me. Thank you for the game plan.

What The1stWife said is great! Exactly what I did, as well.

It is all so crystal clear to me that it boggles my mind how he doesn't get it. I just can't understand how he doesn't understand.

I had to change my own mindset and the tape in my head on ^^^^ this. Whenever I would want to tell my H something, explain, correct, complain, whatever, I stopped myself by saying to myself, "It won't help. Stop it. He doesn't care about your suffering, and you'll only feel worse. Go take care of yourself. How can you take control over how you are feeling? Solve your own life because he only brings you down." And I would go be good to me--journal, a walk, a movie, bake, take a bubble bath, a bike ride, or phone a friend.

I do think that a BS should explain once, and if there is no change, they should not explain again. Instead we should begin to take back our own lives and mental health by leaning on ourselves instead of hoping for better from our abuser. By going back again and again for validation or change from our abuser, he/she holds all the cards on our mental health. By obstructing our goals with ignorance or a lack of empathy, the WS feels vindicated or powerful or blameless while we feel crazy, invalidated, and alone. How lovely for their mental health. Get off the hampster wheel and validate yourself by yourself. Reject the need for your rejector.

The reasons that our WS do not empathize or offer what we need do not matter. If they do not support our healing, it is our human responsibility to support ourselves on our own.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 11:59 AM, July 31st (Friday)]

Remember, the WS have a HUGE investment in not agreeing or seeing things your way: they do not want to look at themselves and change. It's scary and difficult.

OIN picture me standing up and applauding because YES YES YES

By going back again and again for validation or change from our abuser, he/she holds all the cards on our mental health. By obstructing our goals with ignorance or a lack of empathy, the WS feels vindicated or powerful or blameless while we feel crazy, invalidated, and alone. How lovely for their mental health. Get off the hampster wheel and validate yourself by yourself. Reject the need for your rejector.

Instead we should begin to take back our own lives and mental health by leaning on ourselves instead of hoping for better from our abuser. By going back again and again for validation or change from our abuser, he/she holds all the cards on our mental health.

^^^This and it is no wonder my mental health is in the dumps. I had to let go of the rope to save myself. My STBX wouldn't budge an inch and continues to blame and berate me IF I let him.

It is all so crystal clear to me that it boggles my mind how he doesn't get it. I just can't understand how he doesn't understand.

I think this is the hardest part to come to terms with, that they do not see it. They refuse to see it because it makes them feel bad. So instead of them feeling bad we end up feeling bad. Not a very good tradeoff.

Remember, the WS have a HUGE investment in not agreeing or seeing things your way: they do not want to look at themselves and change. It's scary and difficult.

Yep I just had this happen this morning. My STBX is blaming me for the IHS and how it's ruined his life and that I am the one who brought the M to the place it is at This is what I get to deal with for trying to work things out. Now he can say that I gave up on the M because it didn't work. If I would have left right after False R I wouldn't be dealing with this nonsense. My STBX likes to put the spin on anything that deflects from himself.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 12:14 PM, July 31st (Friday)]

Preach, OIN. If someone mistreats me and I explain how that makes me feel and request that they do not do so in the future, I have done my job. If they continue to mistreat me, I can assume that they simply do not agree with me and react accordingly. I don't need to know what psychological manifestations of any FOO or ideology is running around their brain that prompts them to be okay with mistreating me. It is not my job to know. You get too caught up with "but why is he this way?" and you start to assign yourself tasks that involve fixing him. Not your job. Your job is to take care of you. Wherever it leads you, your job is you, not him.

OIN, crazy, Jana, DD - thank you all so much. I was beginning to question my sanity where this is concerned. I think it is the hardest part of healing for me. I was raised that if you hurt someone, you make it better - whatever it takes. To see that my WH does not see it the same way is, as I said, mindboggling. I understand why - he doesn't want to acknowledge the monumental pain he inflicted - he's actually told me I'm making more of it that it is (which in my opinion, is impossible). I really need to focus on me and my DS, and making sure we are getting what we need. You all give me strength - I appreciate each and every one of you.

To see that my WH does not see it the same way is, as I said, mindboggling

this is the beginning of seeing your WH / M without rose colored glasses.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 4:50 PM, July 31st, 2020 (Friday)]

gmc, that has been happening little by little since DDay. I am becoming much more objective and observant.

I understand why - he doesn't want to acknowledge the monumental pain he inflicted....

I think you've got that wrong.

The reason he's not a candidate for R is that he won't acknowledge the monumental pain he's in. He can't give you support unless he deals with his own pain. He can't be a good partner until he deals with his own pain.

I suspect he's a coward, and cowards can't/won't change.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:46 AM, August 1st (Saturday)]

Never give up your power to these aholes. Most are narcs.

I never looked at it that way sisoon. I think I have a difficult time seeing the perpetrator as being in pain. When I'm in pain, you see it. You know. He does not seem to be. Looking at him it's as if he never cheated. I would be distraught if I cheated. But he compartmentalizes so I guess that's how he does it. But I think you are right. If he doesn't acknowledge his pain, he can't possibly understand mine and how much worse it is. He still equates his pre-A pain (from me being a horrible wife) to my post-A pain. I told him I also had pre-A pain due to his treatment of me and his behavior, and he dumped the post-A pain on top of that and there is no possible way he is in as much pain. Either way, he sees himself as a victim in all this. That just really makes me angry and he can't understand why.

Stinger, I never really knew much about narcs until coming on here, and then doing more research. As much as I don't want that to be true, I'm thinking it is. And narcs are not capable of having a successful relationship so there really is no point to this, is there.

I never really knew much about narcs until coming on here, and then doing more research. As much as I don't want that to be true, I'm thinking it is.

People get very hung up on labels as if what you believe somehow permanently scars and devastates these waywards, so let's say that you believe your WH is--after doing research--exhibiting some highly self-centered, narcissistic traits. Did you see this about him in other ways prior to the cheating? Has he always been very self-centered? Did he usually play the victim card or the "Well, what about YOU!" card whenever you tried to point out problems? Did you find yourself sucking it up to keep the peace? Just going along with what he wanted because it was easier?

If this all rings true even prior to the cheating, then his changing is even less likely because he has already struggled in the empathy department. He has lived a lifetime as the center of his and your world, so talking about you and caring about you now will feel like an affront to his special, spoiled ego.

I have to say, BetterTimesAhead, not to say he has to have a full blown personality disordered level of narcissism, but he seems to be ticking a lot of those boxes with his attacks on you.

OIN, before he cheated and I started really looking at our relationship, I didn't really notice. Now looking back, and what happens now, I see he is that way. It was just easier to appease him. Until it got to be too much and I just shut down. His tactics didn't work at that point and I believe that is when he felt entitled to cheat. My opinion. Now I don't shut down but challenge him and tell him it's not going to work anymore. I no longer respond to the passive-aggressiveness or other forms of manipulation. Guess that's progress.

People who are highly self-centered and narcissistic are simply used to getting their way and feel entitled to getting things their way. When you get sick of it and put a stop to it, they often cannot handle the change. They don't like it. They think you are being unfair and see YOU as the problem.

Idk, it's a tough wall to break through. Obviously the wall is impossible with the personality disordered, but others can be just as set in their ways and unable to shift their thinking. They continue to slip up during R, if that's what you want to call it, because doing whatever they want is their default mentality.

I wish you lots of luck.

Thank you for the luck OIN. You are correct - a very difficult wall to break through. Maybe impossible. Especially when he has no desire to do so.