SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

WH

I think it's quite possible we never fully recover from the blast.

What would that fully recover from the blast look like?

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 3:21 PM, Sunday, November 16th]

Sisson,

First, I agree with Unhinged in this thread, totally. I believe one can heal fully. I believe 'should' may have good uses, but telling oneself one 'should' do something is a trap.

Like you, I do not wish to get hung up on "should". This is a fun back and forth I have going with Unhinged. I want to be clear that I have never said to another betrayed spouse that "they should or shouldn’t do something’. What I have said, and I stand by it, that looking back I can see some things that "I" should have done differently. I see that as healthy.

Thank you for sharing some of your story about how you processed becoming vulnerable again. That is one of the main losses that occurs once infidelity comes to the forefront.

So, Asterisk and Wounded Healer, I'd be interested in your thoughts on vulnerability, if you're willing to share them.

Sisson, even the process of sharing my thoughts with you and others on vulnerability makes me more vulnerable than I was. That said, it is a good and fair question. One that I expect nearly all betrayeds find themselves weighing.

Like you, per-D-day, I was wholly vulnerable to my wife and have tried to overcome the fear so as to again gain the willingness to be fully vulnerable again. Without that, in my way of thinking, why be in a relationship with her? I cannot see how reconciliation has a prayer if all defenses are fortified and employed. In yet, discounting just what I said, though I am not completely vulnerable anymore, I still have a marriage that I am proud of and a deep love and respect for my wife. I know the two do not dance instep with each other but they both are in the dance together.

However, as you stated, it is a slow process of risk and success to regain some semblance of what existed prior to infidelity. Am I totally vulnerable? No, and it grieves me so. Will I get there? I have my doubts. Does that decrease my love, affection, and happiness with my wife? No. I have all those things and more. But, as much as I’d like to disagree with what I believe Wounded Healer is conveying, a piece of vulnerability forever lost is a painful price unwillingly paid. As suggested, some injuries, despite their healing, do seem to have lifelong pain that the best one can do is to learn to manage it so it does not disrupt the richness of life and love.

Asterisk

Unhinged,

How do you think your wife might react if she read all of your threads here, if you printed them all and gave them to her to read?
Could you be that vulnerable with her?

You have asked me this type of question many times and in many ways. And I’ve tried to explain it, but my skill at justification has been inefficient. Don’t get me wrong, I admire and welcome your relentlessness, but I am not sure how to explain why I don’t talk with my wife about what she does not want to talk about?

In the past, you have asked me for precise examples versus generic explanations. As much as I don’t want to go here because it embarrasses me to the core, I will. I’ll try to shorten it but then, in shortness the fullness of an answer is easily lost. Ugg.

I’ll try to explain the primary reason I no longer attempt to force my wife to talk about her affair and its effects on me. Portions of this I’ve already shared elsewhere so forgive me for any redundancy.

Though my wife and I knew of each other in high school we ran in different crowds, she in the intellectual and me in the athletics. It was in an extremely conservative church that we began our relationship. During our yearlong courtship, there was no sex. We both were committed to the ideal of keeping our virginity until marriage. Therefore, it wasn’t until our honeymoon night that either of us would have known that my wife instead of being interested in sex she was fearful of it. She would allow it but not participate, nor talk about it, even in the slightest way. I would ask, plead, dig, pry, trying desperately to know what she wanted or what I was doing wrong. I’d beg, wanting to know why she found me so undesirable. To which I’d receive a soul crushing silence.

It was my belief once that open communication was the only way a married couple could continue to exist so I’d push and pressure her to share why she found me so unattractive? I’d ask, sometimes in frustration sometimes in desperation, why she marry me if she didn’t love me? (I was conjoining love and sex. I would come to separate the two after the infidelity.)

So fast forward 20 years of a warm and loving relationship steeped in sexual disfunction where I had become somewhat comforted by the fact that it wasn’t that my wife didn’t love me, she just hated sex.

Here I am, listening to my wife disclose that you had been involved in a 1 ½ year affair with one of our church friends. I’m having to revisit an old fear. It wasn’t that my wife hated sex, she hated having sex with me! That is a very bitter bill to swallow with grace.

I was beyond distraught and trying to force my wife to address her affair and her ongoing sexual rejection of me. It would take her about 10 years to finally tell me why she had her affair.

She broke down an said that all the pressure she felt from me and the church of how she "should" squeezed her so tight into a box she didn't fit into, that she felt that internally she was dying. She was desperate. So, when the opportunity arose and her future lover asked, she blew her old self up and grabbed at the brass ring. I’m not justifying her actions and she no longer does as well; I’m just trying to lay out the situation and some of the justifications.

It took me far too long but what I came to understand and empathize about my wife is that she does not manage pressure well. The more pressure applied, the deeper inside herself she crawls. And she can stay there for decades!

So, Unhinged, no, I will not print out my posts and ask her to read them. I did, before I made my 1st post, let her know that if she wanted, she was welcomed to read any post I made. My only restriction was that she was not to read any responses for I felt that for her to do so would be a betrayal of people who are sharing their thoughts with me. She has never asked to read one of them.

Do I think the lack of open communication about this issue is the best way? Hell no! But what I have learned it is dangerously deadly to attempt to force someone to do what they do not want to do.

What I am learning from here is that I am to see her as she is, not as I want her to be. And from that view, decide, do I find her the person I want to love and to be loved by until death? The answer is an unapologetic yes!

Asterisk

Oldwounds,

I was beaten black and blue for nearly four years by my step-father.

I’m so deeply grieved to read this. No person, especially a child, deserves to be beaten. Then having infidelity piled onto of it is nearly an impossible journey to navigate. Your words going forward will carry the weight of these injustices that you have found yourself a way through.

I am not powerless against any trauma I had.

Though it can feel disempowering, I agree that once the dust of shock and grief settles back to earth it is imperative that we retake our power and then the necessary steps with stumbles to regain our sense of peace and acceptance.

I am stronger for conquering them.

And I see that strength forged through success. In many ways, I feel I am simultaneously stronger and softer than I was pre-D-day. As someone here once wrote, "Infidelity is an unwelcomed gift." On first read, it was nails on a chalk board, but in deeper thought, it has been my experience as well.

In the meantime, I am going to enjoy my coffee and take pictures of the sunset.

Well, I don’t drink coffee or take photos of sunset (I like photographing birds) but I’ll join you in spirit and hopefully you with me.

Asterisk

Wounded Healer

I appreciate this conversation so much and have so much respect for everyone engaging here in this thread and their stories. Hopefully this isn't a threadjack, but I think continuing this conversation has a lot of value.

I agree, I too have great respect for everyone engaging. The information and differing concepts are weighing heavy, in a good way, on my brain. As to a "threadjack" I don’t see it that way at all and welcome your thoughts. To my way of thinking, if a thread prompts someone to relate, what might appear to be a different topic, then it is on topic with a twist. If I or someone else wishes, they can easily bring the thread back to the original title.

Even if I hadn't had extensive personal experience with this, I would sorta be skeptical based on the sheer "absoluteness" of this concept. I mean, the sheer complexity of the psychology involved...the deepest, tenderest, core level stuff. It just seems at very least questionable to me to be so absolute about zero possible long term effects, zero possible residuals, and never less than good as new, without exception...when something so tender, complex, and intricate gets blown to bits. I mean, is it really so unbelievable to consider that the human "heart"/soul, in it's most sensitive and tender places, is at least as susceptible to potential permanent damage/lasting/lingering limitations or otherwise ill effects...as the human knee?

Wow, simply wow. This is a powerful paragraph Wounded Healer. I had to sit with this for a long time rethinking my earlier reply. I was supportive of the idea that the reconciliation process was, at least to me, a lifelong procedure. However, I did suggest that the areas of damage were not like the "human knee" in that if severely damaged or amputated it could not be fully healed or replaced. For me to suggest that it wasn’t like the knee but something that has the possibility of full restoration is really an odd position for me to take, as I write here 32 plus years later fighting back tears. Your description is a replica of my situation, and I guess I don’t like it. I want to "wish" it away. A more positive way to look at it, as I’ve seen stated here several times, is to aim for what you want. As much as I agree with the positivity of that line, how much time and energy does one spend on something if it has proven to be unattainable. At some point doesn’t one just has to accept the permanence of the damage? Wounded Healer, I see no miscalculation in your math.

Not an attempt to avoid or swerve away from this moment, it sure has turned dark. I don’t fear the dark for it is within the darkness I often find my repose.

And...there's lingering pain. Long-term for me. My affections for her don't work exactly like they used to...neither does passion...or pride. Trust. There are other things I can identity as well...things that are less than or diminished from what they were prior to the violence of infidelity.

And this is my situation as well that I somehow have not been able to convey. I agree that my affection, passion, trust and other things about my wife have been altered by her affair. And for many years diminished, but never fully gone. Though I am momentarily struggling, all those listed above are stronger, not less than, they were pre-D-day.

Healed. Yet also, to a degree(s), damaged. And that damage isn't present for lack of healing effort or work. And it sure as hell isn't being chosen. I know why it's here. And I know why my wife is here...

"It sure as hell isn’t being chosen." Damn you hit a tender spot and rightly so. I’ve been talking about me choosing to stay stuck in the past not thinking about the consequences that phrasing may inflict. I am not even sure how to proceed with my typing other than to say:

Enjoy the sunset when it returns and your beautiful wife.

Asterisk

Evio,

I believe the scars I will eventually have from my husband's betrayal will always hurt when pressed and that's just part of being human. I don't, however, plan on sitting round poking my scars all day to see if they still hurt.

True, or better said, in my experience infidelity will always hurt when pressed. How and when someone chooses to stop pocking at the scar, I guess depends only on the injured partner.

Thanks for joining in,

Asterisk

HouseOfPlane,

I think it's quite possible we never fully recover from the blast.

What would that fully recover from the blast look like?

Thankfully, it appears this question was for Wounded Healer, so I'm off the hook. :)

Asterisk —

And I see that strength forged through success. In many ways, I feel I am simultaneously stronger and softer than I was pre-D-day. As someone here once wrote, "Infidelity is an unwelcomed gift." On first read, it was nails on a chalk board, but in deeper thought, it has been my experience as well.

Unexpected and unwelcome for sure.

And I never know if explaining how I healed up helps, but I can say, my path is not original.

I leaned in to books about the human spirit, about people who have had a much tougher life than me (prisoners of war, holocaust survivors, human trafficking, etc.) and another important idea I stole from the Stoics:

Amor Fati.

Love your fate.

The whole big, ugly picture.

When I chose misery over healing, in that time, was it my fault?

I don’t know that fault or blame has much to do with healing.

As I have said before, I’m not sure blame fixes anything.

If I embrace it all as part of what life can be or is, then it looks different to me.

The power showed up when I realized I had a choice how to feel about my pain.

No sleight of hand, no magic.

I love my fate, because it is the only one I have.

I’m not going to get a second run at life, so I chose to focus on today instead.

I love my life, my wife and every domino that fell, in the order it fell in has led me to this moment.

Like all of us, pain, suffering, the damage is a big part of it (plus some joys in there too) and I am grateful to celebrate my fate, and whatever is left to do.

I’m having to revisit an old fear. It wasn’t that my wife hated sex, she hated having sex with me! That is a very bitter bill to swallow with grace.

Is that your fear or something she actually told you?

It seems to me that she certainly has (had?) some very serious foo issues, as well as a few religious issues.

...she does not manage pressure well. The more pressure applied, the deeper inside herself she crawls. And she can stay there for decades!

Yeah... sounds a lot like me. People who tend to avoid conflict first and foremost avoid the conflicts within themselves. It's taken me years to understand how these tendencies of mine have been tripping me up for most of my life. It's still a struggle at times, although, as you've observed, I don't always shy away from conflict anymore.

Thank you for sharing this, Asterisk. I am sure it's embarrassing. Being so vulnerable about it can't be easy. In doing so, however, you're likely helping people in ways you may never understand or even know about. I've always suspected that there are more people out there lurking than joining and posting.

I admire and welcome your relentlessness,

Had to laugh at that. I can be relentless at times. Not sure if I should be.

...she blew her old self up...

Yep. It's why I often write that infidelity is self-destructive. Sometimes people simply break. If you honestly believe that she was able to put herself back together in a healthy manner then it's all good. I have my doubts, however. Of course, that's your problem, not mine. I'm trying to help you, not her.

So, big question! Do you think she has done so? I think I know the answer, but I've been wrong before (shocking, ain't it )

Wounded HealerYou're not thread-jacking at all. The site, this thread, is much about healing.

When I write that I've recovered and healed, perhaps I could write that I've recovered and healed as much as I think possible.

I've spent much of my career in restaurants and catering. I've spent much of life doing crazy shit with things on my feet (roller-skating and blading, ice skating, skiing). I've cut or burned myself a gazillion times, broken several bones, etc. For the most part, it's all healed. The singular exception is my left wrist, which now has limited range of motion such that I can't swing a bat or a golf club anymore.

As for the emotional and psychological trauma from infidelity, I cannot find a way to qualify or quantify the damage or healing. What I can say is that I nolonger feel it, think about or get triggered by it. I can read and respond on SI with a level of detachment that suggests to me that I've recovered and healed as much as possible.

Healing is a choice.

Some really touching posts here. Good stuff.Thank you!

Old Roma curse:

May you have an interesting life.