SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

All I can say at this point is: If and when this happens, before you get someone to retrieve the information in her laptop and cell phone, "GET MENTALLY PREPARED FOR THE WORST".

I concur with HappyMan.

Tell her you agree to go to MC to discuss your marriage/divorce.

At MC, you let her talk about the content of the phone and computer. Let her talk about anything she likes. You simply listen. When MC and wife ask you join in say that you are there, trying to figure out what happened to your life.

As to the accusation of you being a threat to yourself and others, ask her if she is afraid of you. If she says that the hotel room destruction proves that you are violent and unstable, then ask her how confident she is that the counseling will diffuse the situation.

Also, I would ask her if she had come home and heard you having sex with someone else in the bedroom, would she simply have gone in to see what was going on or quietly closed the door and gone away.

As to the legal dangers of being sued or prosecuted, they are small. Furthermore, you don't have to tell her that you got the data. Knowledge is power. If you get the information, you can even up the pressure on her to come clean.

Tell her she can have them back. If she talks about reconciliation, you can say you cannot communicate as long as she is unremorseful.

Also, as long as your wife claims that she wants to save your marriage, call her on it. Tell her to cough up the passwords. Before she does so, she should tell you what you will find. This is a good opportunity to find out if she can tell the truth. After all you cannot be married to a woman who lies about the sanctity of her heart and vagina.

Your wife may love you and the things she wrote were part of her romance novel reality TV adventure. But you will be the judge of what was fiction.

[This message edited by LongWalk at 2:58 AM, April 23rd (Thursday)]

What a freaking smoke screen. This was not an EA. And she lost the right to choose your path, so by withholding passwords, claiming she's afraid of your anger and what you would do, she's still trying to control YOUR steps and pathway. What a patronizing, condescending bitch - she says it so nicely and caring, but that's exactly what it is - condescending crap.

She chose your path by cheating. She doesn't get to continue choosing for you. Get your tech people to get you the info you need so that you don't have any evil surprises after the divorce. You get all the truth now so that the wound gets cleaned out completely now so it can heal.

[This message edited by k8la at 6:09 AM, April 23rd (Thursday)]

DG,

She thinks/knows that you are divorcing her; there is no need to come clean, as you pointed out before she has only admit the things you can prove.

IMO she is in damage control mode. It means that in her mind keeping you from knowing what happened improves her chances to fix your relation.

Her gold is getting you into IC/MC to make you drop D.

At this point she believes that, as you have kids together and you don’t know all that happened you may remain as friends so she can work things out to be with you again. I believe this is your leverage.

Tell her that you are not going to IC or MC without knowing exactly what has happened, and as she is not providing PS and only came clean about what you already know you are going to do the next:

Assume in every aspect the worse scenery:

Duration: Much more that she has told you, maybe years!

Physical contact: Full Physical Affair for a long time, a few three some with OM friends. As she refuses to let you see the emails and text you will assume there are videos and pics of some of these sexual encounters.

Email and text interaction: You will assume sexual pictures and videos as well as skype cyber-sex sessions. You will assume sexting and she badmouthing you as well as She and OM making fun of you. Including planning for sexual encounters in very important dates to you (Marriage anniversary, birthdays, etc.)

Other Affairs: As you were love blindsided for a long time, you will assume that there are/were others affairs in the past.

As she is protecting OM after the pain she caused you, you assume she has feeling for him and maybe still in contact.

Based on those assumptions you are moving on with the D and you will not accept any further contact with her (This is what I believe is your leverage as she will try to keep in touch with you) from now on. If she needs anything from you talk to your lawyer.

She may think is a bluff so if you could get her serve and go dark after the email maybe you will get the PS.

IMO if after facing the chance to never see you again she still does not give you the PS is because, at least in her mind, what you will find is much worse. In this case D ASAP and move on and never talk to her ever again.

Good luck

craig2001

Apparently you have anger issues. And that worries her. If you do not get your anger issues under control, just divorce her.

Apparently, but I have not always been this way. I decided many years ago that it was easier to control my anger than it was to have to go and apologize to someone I have offended. Never before had I experienced such all-consuming wrath as I did on DD. I had no ideal I was capable of such explosive rage.

I am sure WW was just as shocked as myself. I believe that DD was the first time my WW was ever exposed to aggressive behavior on my part. I have always tried to be gentle, kind and loving with her. She was the victim of a verbally abusive childhood and I was ever aware of her fragility. I discovered early in our marriage that if I even raised my voice, she would emotionally cower and withdraw. She hates confrontation and is the first one to cave in when arguing. The sound of people arguing makes her uneasy and she wants to leave so she doesn’t have to hear it anymore. She tends to do what she is told even when she is against it. She is beaten mentally and lives much of her life in silence. My desire has always been to be what she needs me to be.

Don’t get me wrong. It definitely was not one sided. She gave as much as she got. When all was said and done, I always believed I came out ahead in our relationship. She was very beautiful, loving and devoted. I adapted to her world and she learned how to live in mine.

After DD, the biggest mistakes I have made have not been the result of anger, but, decisions I have made under the influence of joy and confusion. After reading a letter, email or text from WW, I get to thinking that maybe I can get past this. She has been consistent in her repentance and persistent in her efforts to work things out. She reminds me of the way we were and promises that we can be that way again. Sometime I suffer an attack of temporary happiness and I start thinking, thinking, thinking...and only anger can provide a way of escape.

Anger is my friend. The only emotion I have allowed her to see is anger, and that is for my self-preservation. I do not trust myself with any other emotion when communicating with her. I wake up the anger so I do not cave in to her love.

I don’t want to blow your minds or lose credibility here, but, what I am about to tell you is true. Several weeks after DD I took an online quiz entitled, “Is your anger out of control? Take our quiz,” http://www.allaboutyou.com/health/health-advice/controlling-anger-anger-quiz#qtop

Anyway, I took the quiz and answered all questions with 100% honesty. Here are the results?

Congratulations, you are super laid back; ...almost too much so sometimes! Far be it from you to let life's little irritations get you down. You probably can't recall the last time you lost your temper - and if you can remember, it must have been for a very good reason. Generally, it's great to be relaxed and in control of your emotions. Just make sure your desire to steer clear of conflict and arguments doesn't allow people to get away with bad behavior. Be assertive, not angry. Exercise is a great way to stay healthy and in control of your emotions. 'On those rare occasions when you do feel your anger escalating, go for a brisk walk, run or swim,' suggests personal trainer AJ Perrera from Fitness First. 'Physical activity stimulates various brain chemicals and endorphins that can leave you feeling happier and more relaxed.' You might need to stick up for yourself a little more.”

It’s ok to laugh. The person that took this quiz is my former self. The “me” I remember myself to be; the “me” I grew up with; the only “me” I really know. I probably could not answer any questions about the “me” I have become because I don’t really know this person, and to be perfectly honest, I do not care to know him. He doesn’t seem very nice, but sad to say, I am afraid I am going to be stuck with him for a long time. In an abstract kind of way, this all makes sense to me. My life has been reduced from fairy tale to nursery rhyme. Humpty Dumpty cannot be put back together again.

Admittedly melodramatic. My emotions might be extreme but certainly not exaggerated. I don't get any awards for getting through this. I have no choice, I just keep breathing. Sometimes I do not believe I can live, but I continue breathing.

I performed an amazing feat when I was a kid. I slid all the way down a roof, jumped into a tree and swung to the ground. The thing is, I did not choose to do this. I fell and thank God the tree was there.

I did not choose to do this either, but thank God, you guys are here. Everything you guys say, I am taking on board, printing, rereading during the day. It helps a lot. You have raised some valid points and suggestions for me to consider.

Well the bottom line here is that you need and deserve the entire truth of what happened. There are no valid reasons for your wife to continue to lie or TT...really the only valid reason is if she fears for her safety.

Other than that, or some dramatic drama queen stuff from her, you deserve the truth.

Without the truth, you will wonder forever.

Once she gives you the truth, you will need to handle it calmly. She has to feel safe to give you the entire truth.

Now you will be angry, but it is how you deal with it. And that is the hardest part.

Divorce may be the way you deal with it. Or telling your wife she needs helps and she better get it. But you deserve all of the answers.

If you visit the wayward forum here and read about the inner mental life of the cheater who is trying to reconcile, you can get some idea of how basically good people can end up in a hellish situation.

A person married for decades can be bored. Compliments, attention and flattery can worm their way into the liminal mind. Throw in the fateful meeting that they they knew was a turn on the path and suddenly staying behind in the conference room at work after the meeting and they are kissing. From there the panties can easily fall on the floor.

Facebook is another such meeting place. Character is trumped by desire for excitement. The selfish gene within her wanted you to raise another man's child.

Chance and your selfish genes cut short your wife's adulterous escapade.

Perhaps you should raze your marriage to ground and salt the earth. Perhaps you should open the door and allow her back in.

Your willingness to consider reconciliation is a powerful card. All you have to do is call her and tell her that you have thought over her request to rescue your marriage and you have had a change of heart and will consider it. However horrible the contents of her computer and phone, the two of you must face what is written there. Not just you but the two of you.

Would she like to be there when you first read them?

@Mrhealed, Got this ball rolling.

At this point she believes that, as you have kids together and you don’t know all that happened you may remain as friends so she can work things out to be with you again. I believe this is your leverage.

Tell her that you are not going to IC or MC without knowing exactly what has happened, and as she is not providing PS and only came clean about what you already know you are going to do the next:

Assume in every aspect the worse scenery:

Duration: Much more that she has told you, maybe years!

Physical contact: Full Physical Affair for a long time, a few three some with OM friends. As she refuses to let you see the emails and text you will assume there are videos and pics of some of these sexual encounters.

Email and text interaction: You will assume sexual pictures and videos as well as skype cyber-sex sessions. You will assume sexting and she badmouthing you as well as She and OM making fun of you. Including planning for sexual encounters in very important dates to you (Marriage anniversary, birthdays, etc.)

Other Affairs: As you were love blindsided for a long time, you will assume that there are/were others affairs in the past.

As she is protecting OM after the pain she caused you, you assume she has feeling for him and maybe still in contact.

Based on those assumptions you are moving on with the D and you will not accept any further contact with her (This is what I believe is your leverage as she will try to keep in touch with you) from now on. If she needs anything from you talk to your lawyer.

When I emailed that I suspected her of these things, she texted me immediately that she was horrified that I would imagine such things. I told her that since she was working so hard at keeping the details from me, I could only imagine that it must really be bad.

Within a few moments, my daughter, who lives several states away, called and said she was coming for a quick visit. I think WW panicked and called her to come to her defense. I don't feel so good about this. I would rather her not be involved and told her so. She said she was coming of her own volition.

We had a family meeting last night at my daughter’s insistence and I am still digesting what they had to say. I have three daughters, two in college and one who graduated last year and now works in another part of the country. I picked her up at the airport on Thursday evening and we spent the two hour drive from airport discussing what she described as her mom’s ‘mistake.’ She was disturbed with my position. According to her, sure, mom made a bad decision, and of course, she had suffered a lapse of good judgement but then she summed it all up by saying nobody’s perfect and I needed to just get over it. I told her I would be interested in her opinion when everything comes out. She seems to think I have everything; there is nothing else to find out and that my WW’s infidelity was limited to some crazy text messages. Who doesn’t do something crazy every once in a while, right? Her words not mine.

I met with all three daughters and WW last night and was expecting to be ganged up on for more of the same. They are confident that if I love WW as much as they know I do; then that love will overcome. According to them, I must stop radiating anger and blame. My blaming WW is a means of keeping myself a victim – victimized – a way to continue feeling bad, in pain and hating her. I explained to them that I am a victim, and being victimized is conducive to being in pain and feeling bad. I am paraphrasing but the gist of our discussion is that WW does not deserve to be ostracized, cut-off and punished the rest of her life for one mistake. Besides, her indiscretion was minor compared to the full scope of our marriage.

I suppose they consider texting another man for six months as one mistake; and a minor one at that. I understand that they have limited details and they are taking what their mom has told them at face value and are running with it. Their consensus is that there are many women out there who are unfaithful to their husbands and what their mom (WW) did could have been a lot worse. I answered them, yea, there are many unfaithful women out there but I was not married to one of them. Not until recently.

The summary of last night’s meeting? I said they were wrong, they said I was wrong and damn it, they outvoted me. Throughout their carefully planned treatise, my subconscious brain was muttering to me, yea, but, she cheated on ME.

My daughters agree with me; WW should give me her passwords. I can tell, they do not expect me to find anything in her messages other than a few ‘mistakes.’ They agree with WW that I should go to counseling. I have agreed to six counseling sessions. At the end of third session, WW gives me the passwords and written permission to get information from cell and computer. I go to three counseling sessions with her after that.

Talking about all this with my kids did not feel right, especially when most of what I have is circumstantial. But, it was more than that. I think that kids my daughter’s ages are ill equipped to listen to their parent’s problems. My daughters kind of twisted my arm and in fact, oldest daughter said she would not get back on plane until we discussed as family. My WW, I am sure, had a lot to do with this and I told her that she should be careful not to use our children as confidantes. My daughters and I have always enjoyed a close relationship with each other and I do not want them to lose respect for me.

@marbou888, I am as prepared as I can get. I am expecting the absolute worse. WW has fought too hard to hard to keep me out of her computer for there to be nothing there.

@LongWalk, We have first MC appointment for Monday evening. She is going to email me a letter stating that after three MC's I have permission to get into her cell and computer by any means necessary. I am doing this in case she tries to renege on her agreement to give me passwords after third meeting.

Also, as long as your wife claims that she wants to save your marriage, call her on it. Tell her to cough up the passwords. Before she does so, she should tell you what you will find. This is a good opportunity to find out if she can tell the truth. After all you cannot be married to a woman who lies about the sanctity of her heart and vagina.

I said these words to her. She's confused but said she would start explaining some of it in emails. I don't even know what she means by 'some of it.' I guess it means there is a lot.

@K8la,

What a freaking smoke screen. This was not an EA. And she lost the right to choose your path, so by withholding passwords, claiming she's afraid of your anger and what you would do, she's still trying to control YOUR steps and pathway. What a patronizing, condescending bitch - she says it so nicely and caring, but that's exactly what it is - condescending crap.

Exactly. I do get a lot of emails and texts from her. It is condescending and manipulative. After lying to me for six months, I do not believe anything WW has to say. Sorry can't do it.

Wow. I'm not sure how much naivety/inexperience of your daughters played part in this, and how much your WW's manipulation. I'm sorry you were ganged up upon like this.

If you do go the divorce route, talk to a family therapist about how to explain your position to your daughters, how to fight against alienation and how to play the long game. I fear that your daughters will be further manipulated by your WW.

I'm also sorry that your daughters, at least to some extent, have learnt to be manipulative and to be dismissive of infidelity.

I dunno, I'm kind of disappointed in them&the ww. On the other hand, I don't know what you could have done differently.

I still think that after three sessions, all the evidence will be wiped from various accounts. The only question is if anything remains on the hard drive.

Keep talking to us, ok? So we can support you and help you.

Best wishes

DG,

I strongly suggest to ask her for a poly test.

She will only come clean for what you can prove. If there has been a PA and the email evidences were already deleted as were from a web based email (yahoo, gmail,etc.) you will never know.

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 5:06 PM, April 25th (Saturday)]

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 5:03 PM, April 25th (Saturday)]

Do not let everyone pile on you.

Point blank and calmly tell your daughters, family and your wife in front of everyone. If your wife has nothing to hide, then she will give you passwords and access to everything, right then and there.

Bottom line, people who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

Do not let your wife gas light you and make you the bad guy, the nutty guy anymore.

If she is so damn innocent, than have her prove it by opening up all electronics right in front of everyone.

For crying out loud, people that are hiding and lying will go to great lengths to make everyone around them either seem like the nutty one or come to their defense. Do not allow this hell.

Have you wife give all access to everything in front of everyone. And if she gives any excuses as to why she wont, calmly point out, people with nothing to hide would never act as she has and is.

Common sense destroys liars, because it shows them for what they are, liars.

Three thoughts:

1. It was inappropriate of your wife to involve your children in this discussion.

2. I am sorry to say but there is a lack of respect for you on everyone's part.

3. Demand a polygraph because I seriously doubt you are ever going to see all of the emails.

Do not let her complicate things. The issue is her honesty. Nothing else is relevant at this point.

[This message edited by redsox13 at 9:52 PM, April 25th (Saturday)]

Her words to you:

"Honey, I was so glad to hear from you, even if it was about divorcing me. The onslaught of your feelings nearly overwhelmed me but I know my pain is nothing compared to what you are enduring. I do not want a divorce. A divorce is the last thing in this world that I want, but, I cannot choose between divorcing and giving you my passwords because there is a third element involved, your anger. If you read my horrible emails before you get counseling, something very ugly is going to happen. I just know it. I take full responsibility for this whole mess but I cannot stand the thought of you getting into more trouble because of my ridiculous stupidity. I have caused you enough pain already. I know with all my heart that if you read the emails in your present state that something bad is going to happen. Not to me, I have accepted the fact that you are probably done here. My concern is for you. This is why I am begging you to get counseling before reading the horrible stuff I wrote. I love you with all my heart and I will wait forever. I will do anything you ask me to do. Please give me opportunity to talk to you for a few moments. Please."

I sent her a text back stating I am on longer her concern, just give up the passwords.

Just received this response:

"I know you think I made a fool of you, but honey, I made a fool of myself. Not only that, I degraded myself. I want to give you the passwords and I have every intention of doing so. Any hopes I had on saving our marriage are evaporating quickly. I am asking you to go to counseling, with me or without me, before you read the garbage I wrote to (OM). I know you do not believe a word I say but I am done lying to you and I no longer wish to evade the issue. I am afraid for you; at what you might do once you have the emails. You can scream at me until I am deaf, I deserve it. I deserve all the wrath you choose to pour out on me. What I have done sickens me to the core and I have no right to hope our marriage can survive this emotional storm. So, I am not thinking about me or our marriage right now, I am thinking about you. I am willing to lose you rather than be the cause of you getting into serious trouble."

This is some serious...Master Class Manipulation. I pride myself on my ability to communicate with people in person, and in writing, and this is, hands down, some of the best gaslighting verbage I have ever seen. Your STBXWW should get a job in sales. She may have missed her calling.

So here is some real talk for you. First...don't ever allow her to talk to you that way again. Written or otherwise. It's not for her to dictate to you how this goes if you all stay together....Period. It's up to you, no exceptions. Second, sorry for the colorful language here, but your girls don't know a fucking thing. They selfishly want their family to stay together, and are allowing that fear of losing their family to affect their judgement, and want for you to just be OK with getting screwed over and lied to. You can only hope that, some day, they will understand WITHOUT someone doing the same thing to them, as has been done to you. They cannot expect you to carry this burden for them. It's unreasonable. They are adults. Just because they don't understand it, doesn't make you wrong. They are children still in many ways, and that is why they can't comprehend this. You are not. The only intelligent thing that they did say was that their mother should give you all access to everything right now. Damn right...right now.

This is true, but I am also afraid that horse has left the barn.

See Done you sound alot like me in so many ways. I had a "perfect" marriage and life, and I too found out that it was a lie. For the first week after my DDay, my WW deleted everything she could find regarding her affairs. After that first week, she became super remorseful, and I do believe that she has probably told me everything, and has answered all of my questions...but I have one problem...

If she really loved me the way that she said that she did...she wouldn't have deleted everything once I found out and told her that she needed to become completely transparent. The problem now is that I have to TRUST that she is being transparent. But I can't. How can you trust someone you know can lie right to your face?The worst part is I know I can't[ because she never really gave me complete access until AFTER she had scrubbed everything. It's selfish, and one of the worst things that can happen in trying to R with someone.

Your in the same boat. She won't give you access because she is being selfish. She says it's "for you" that she is doing this, but that is complete gaslighting bullshit. You are not crazy. She is praying that in therapy, that you will learn that you don't need to see those things...that way she won't have to deal with it in the light of day in front of her family and friends.

She is being selfish not to protect the OM, or your from yourself, but to protect herself from all of the damage it will cause in her life going forward. Thats the worst kind of behavior in all of this IMHO, and my WW did the same thing. I am almost a year in, and my divorce will be final in a couple of days. I finally determined that I can't stay married to someone who is selfish and that has already proven that when things get really hard...they look to protect themselves first, and not the ones they have traumatized. Even if I love her, I can't be with someone like that.

You can still reconcile after a divorce. I would say spend the money, and divorce, even if she does let you read the emails and unlocks the phone, Will it really matter once she does? You will know more about what happened...but you won't learn anything new about who she really is...you already know that.

If she wants to reconcile, tell her that her only hope with you is for her to show you that she trusts you. She can do that by agreeing to an equitable, fair to you divorce, and that afterwards...by showing her trust in you that you won't screw her over, that you will allow her some trust back to begin to repair what she ripped apart. It's not a promise to stay together, just a promise to let her try and rebuild whats been destroyed. Because thats the reality of both of our situations...they have destroyed the past relationships, and need to help us build new ones, and that requires them showing that they trust YOU first...not the other way around.

A~

[This message edited by Aplomado at 5:40 PM, April 25th (Saturday)]

Divorce her. That is outrageous.

Remember once you get access to the devices, that you needed to check photos, files/documents, videos on the laptop/phone and audio recordings, not just emails and text messages.

Your daughters were wrong, but it could be because of the limited information they know. Don't be rail roaded into any more of these family meetings. I can tell from all your daughters being there, that you are a very close family.

If this wasn't a PA, then your wife and OM likely discussed what they'd like to do with each other, what your sex life was like, how they wish they could be together and such like.

A lot of it may well be fantasy on both parts. It could be that she'd never actually in reality do the things she said. The one concern about it being just fantasy, is that they met up. People try to please each other in affairs and are not always their true self.

Again, unless her email account is not Web based, the emails will have been deleted.

Donegone, I can't believe she is using your daughters in this. That is an awful thing to subject them to, on their behalf and yours. This is not a family matter. This is between you and your WW. Talk with your daughters individually if they need it, but do not allow your WW to use them against you.

Just that meeting alone would anger me enough to divorce her.

Done Gone

If i were you i would be so outraged at what your wife has done i would tell her there is no MC, and i would break into that laptop and phone so quick her fucking head would spin. To bring your daughters into this is so fucking low i am so mad for you I feel like throwing the computer against the wall.

According to her, sure, mom made a bad decision, and of course, she had suffered a lapse of good judgement but then she summed it all up by saying nobody’s perfect and I needed to just get over it. I told her I would be interested in her opinion when everything comes out. She seems to think I have everything; there is nothing else to find out and that my WW’s infidelity was limited to some crazy text messages. Who doesn’t do something crazy every once in a while, righ

You need to tell your daughters that you are still the Father in this household and ask them what they are going to say if this was much more than a little mistake. You need to tell them this is not their fight now and YOU will make the decisions about what you need to know and what you do not. it is obvious your wife has told them she only did a little phone flirting and i can tell you since I have three daughters in their 20's that kind of stuff is no big deal to them. Let's see what they have to say if you find that there was a lot of fucking and videos etc.

You also need to make a plan as to what to do if as someone suggested your wife has gone to a public computer, signed in, and deleted everything. I would also make it clear to her that what your daughters have said changes nothing, and that you are divorcing her and you Are GOING TO GET WHAT IS ON THAT COMPUTER EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO HIRE THE CIA to do it.

My wife would be horrified if her daughters found out anything about what she has done. Your wife is fucking with your mind and I personally would refuse any therapy because of what she has done and crack the computer code and tell her to go fuck herself.

You cal. Just my opinion. And yes I am angry for YOU.

It sounds your daughters at least negotiated an end to this thing. Three MC sessions from now you will finally see what is there. This is good for you, isn't it?

I agree Nononsense