SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm a mechanical engineer. But I have a lot of experience at problem solving. Adultery is a problem, a big, horrible, love-killing problem. But a problem, nevertheless. To solve it , you first need to identify the problem (s), study all aspects of the problem, Make the best possible plan to solve the problem , be sure that you have the proper tools and people to solve the problem, then solve the problem, making sure that the solution benefits the greatest number of people possible. This is how I will proceed.

Bdell - I've got a PhD in structural engineering. Nice to know I'm not the only engineer on here! That said, problem solving skills don't work with this crap my friend. All this crap defies logic completely and it is unpredictable.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, count your blessings that your wife is so remorseful. Based on everything you've said in this thread, if anyone was ever deserving of a second chance, it's her.

Hang in there man, and go fishing! I'm planning to go south sometime this winter myself.

I am a (recovering) engineer as well...i have been in a lot of grad programs, but my M.E. undergrad experience seems to stick.

just a note here about problem definition....

Reality is correct - an affair is something you can not fix. If you are defining the problem as these choices of your WW from a long ago state of mind, you will be never solve the problem, because it does not really exist any more. Not to mention it was irrational at the time.

If you are defining the problem as your own heart, or learning to forgive, then maybe you have a chance.

good luck,

Jack

Geez, I don't know whether it is a good thing or a bad one , that there are so many "mechanics" here on SI. Are we prone to this sort of thing?

Realitystinks, I love fishing the channels in Fl. It's like Forrest Gump, you never know what you're going to catch. I've tentatively set the last week in Jan. for the trip. My wife asked if she could come along. IDK about that. Isn't the point of the trip for me to get some "me time"?

MJ, I am defining the problem as "what to do now?" I know that I want to have my ducks lined up, so whether/if I decide to D or R, I will have done my best for all concerned.

If I were you, I'd take your WW along.

She wants to prove that she really is trying to be what she should have been, a good loving wife.

And wasn't being seperated part of the problem in the first place?

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 1:52 PM, January 3rd (Friday)]

If I were you, I'd take your WW along.

She wants to prove that she really is trying to be what she should have been, a good loving wife.

Separation is one of the mitigating factors in this mess. I get that you are really angry. So at times it will be like sleeping with the ememy.

Separation was an issue with Mr. Happy and I. We both work on call and have to take the jobs as they come. Mr. Happy did not have the moral fortitude to hang on.

So after DD he stuck to me like glue. Weather I liked it or not. LOL!

We did alot of traveling and I must say he put up with a lot of my ire and anger.

We are still standing. And I think his insistence of sticking by me no matter how he repulsed me was good for us both.

Maybe she can come down after a few days of you being alone...?

Maybe.

Bdell -

Up to you on taking her with you.

If I had a similar situation where my WW royally screwed up years ago, fixed her issues, tried to spare my feeling and carried the burden on her own (I know that's debatable, but I believe that's what she was doing based on what you've said), and had been a good wife, friend, and partner since, I would take her with me.

Man, I know you're hurt, mad, sad, angry, and every other emotion right now. You have every right to kick her to the curb. But, what's to say your next significant other won't do the same thing? She's proven for years at this point that she'll remain faithful to you. She deserves credit for that.

Brother, I think you've got a good one. I'm not trying to excuse what she did, but she's handled all this in a manner that many of us wish that our WS had.

I've spoken to my wife, who I love very much, 4 times since the weekend before Thanksgiving. I've only laid eyes on her twice. I love her just as much as you love your wife, the difference is, mine doesn't give a shit about me. Yours obviously still does. Count your blessings about that.

If she wants to go fishing with you, take her with you. There's nothing that says you have to punish her for what she did. I know you want to, and I understand that. But, you're wasting your life by holding on to the anger and resentment. You need to deal with your hurt and anger for sure. It does not need to be swept under the rug. But, man, take hold of your wife's hand, and let her help you get past this and move on with your life. Easier said than done, I know.

Last point: it seems to me that the best way to "punish" her is to love her. Show her what she was willing to throw away. She seems to have a conscience, something that seems to be missing in several other people's spouses, so loving her will do more to "punish" her than yelling at her, leaving her at home, or trying to humiliate her ever will (not saying that you have done any of that).

Hang in there man.

Just checking in with YOU. How are you doing? I think that, because you come across as being strong and focused, we might tend to forget to ask you how YOU are doing. Are you taking care of yourself? Are you sleeping well? Are you having problems with mind-movies? Remorseful or not (and my FWH was extremely remorseful), I know that I still had panic attacks, PTSD flashbacks, nightmares, and times when I just couldn't function. Yes, he was there with me, holding me, apologizing, and doing what he could, but this was still my reality.

So, how are you doing?

Here is what I've tentatively decided on. I still require the DNA tests and polygraph. No, I don't believe she cheated any other time, but I also said that I need proof from her, so I will take her with me, if we can get these things out of the way. She is OK (more than OK) with this and is already looking up polygraph administrators and getting swabs from the kids. I know many of you think I'm being harsh with her, but she is on board with it. She seems more than willing to do anything for my peace of mind.

I think you are doing great Bdell.

And you are not punishing your wife, you are showing her real consequences from her affair.

You do what it takes to heal and restore trust in the relationship.

I know you are weighing the PROs and CONs of your marriage.

Take your time.

And if you do take your wife fishing, it is ok to let her bait your hooks but please do not use her as bait......

HM

Bdell,

There is a big difference between being harsh and being punitive.

Like you stated, you are gathering information, and working through the processes. And from that, your wife is facing, and dealing with, her consequences.

That seems logical to me.

Also, I majored in M.E., but chose to work in a small family business---yet my wife still cheated on me. Maybe it is the engineering mindset....

Sometimes I just can't help it, but lash out at her. We were going over her timeline, this morning and she was telling me about their first "makeout" session in January, and I got pretty nasty with her. Name calling, etc. I don't want to be this way, but sometimes it really get to me. She cried and told me how much she loved me, but it doesn't seem to do much good. I asked her where that love was while she was giving her c*nt to another man. I don't see how any WS can honestly say that they truly love and respect their BS. Today it seems like a lost cause. Sometimes just looking at her makes me want to puke.

I don't see how any WS can honestly say that they truly love and respect their BS.

Love maybe, but respect no. There is nothing a WS can do that is so lacking in respect than having sex with an OP. Such an incredible intimate act that should be exclusive to their life partner, given away to a virtual stranger. Grunting, sweating and copulating in a seedy motel room; how insulting.

I sometimes wonder if we ever fully reconcile; maybe time acts like a merciful anesthetic and stops us focussing so much on the betrayal. We accept and move on.

Sometimes I just can't help it, but lash out at her.

I think it is important to separate out expressing your anger versus "punishment." Too often they combined into a single category.

You are still new to this, the anger is hanging out near the surface. You are not a robot, you are going to have outburst of anger. You can apologize for the way you said it, but being angry is 100% normal and understandable.

Punishment comes later. When you keep dredging things years later just to hurt your W, yes that isn't healthy. Understandable, but not healthy. Just trying to get the anger out so you can be a little more objective is important. The more humble your W is and the more she doesn't get defensive the less outbursts you will have. If they aren't diminishing on their own, then get some help learning how to process them in a less damaging way. Whe I speak of damage I mean to yourself. Anger is very damaging emotion to your own mental stability and physical health.

You are just around a month out from Dday. While it is important to not always express your anger in an attacking manner, you have to deal with it or it will deal with you. You deal with how you know how. That is fine and again 100% normal.

Part of a WS showing that they care (read actions) is bearing witness to the emotions their actions have caused. Humility is being shown, but dealing with the consequences of ones actions is important to "owning your fecal matter." Moreso important for a BS to see that they really must want to work this out. If they did not, they could easily give up or get defensive. It can be faked for awhile, but impossible to fake forever.

Learning to cope with anger in a less confrontational way is a work in progress, not something you just "find." Dribs and drabs you learn it.

At one month out, I was a monster. I am not saying that it was OK, but it needed to be processed before I could move on. I had to learn to express the words without screaming, name calling or worse. It is something you have to figure out on your own and probably with a gifted counselor.

The thing is Bdell decisions made in anger are usually not the best ones. Just keep that in mind.

FWIW I think if your W wants to go on the fishing trip with you, agree to take her along. It gives you the opportunity to have her with you if you need to talk or if you need "some space," she can do something else.

It also could be a chance to take a break from the hurt. Just be together. I know it is hard, but it just gives you a little break together to just be. Call it an armistice. A couple of hours, a day, whatever. Give it a try. You need breaks from this to preserve what is left of your sanity.

How does a WS turn respect for their Spouse on and off like a light switch? I would also like posters to tell me if they are BS or WS. Sometimes the descriptions at the bottom are misleading.

Also , where can I ask WS their opinions? I could really use some insight into their thinking.

There is a thread in the I Can Relate forum, BS questions for WS. You can post your questions there.

We are all BS's since Wayward spouses cannot post in JFO.

Maybe you need some time alone on this fishing trip. Think things over and try and work out why she would do this to a happy marriage.

You made an interesting comment about the WS turning respect on and off. I think its turned off by resentment and anger about a situation in the marriage. The resentment lowers respect and initiates justification for exploring other relationships.

The respect is turned back on again when the resentment disappears because of changing circumstances. Thats when the guilt appears.

OK now, you might have something, here. There were a couple of comments she made to him during the affair, that she told the IC about. Apparently they argued a lot during the A. Once the OM complained about my wife not making time for him and she said to him that he was nothing but a substitute husband and substitute man , to her. Another time, right before the physical affair ended, she said that she hated him, herself and me. Sounds like a lot of resentment, don't you think?

When I think of all that will have to happen, in order to make our marriage work, I am very discouraged. I don't know if I will ever be able to love my wife again. I don't know if I will even want to touch her again. I do not deserve to have this hanging over my life forever.