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number4 that is awesome! My WH has some similar breakthroughs this week! Good news is great, isn't it? I've said in MC that it is not so much his behavior with me that shows healing, but that he treats others so differently. Reaching out with empathy to others is a really good sign of growth! Very interesting that my WH had a dysfunctional alcoholic family and was also sheltered greatly by another family that became more of a base for him. He really never got the nurturing he needed in his FOO.

Ok did everyone read the interview with Weinstein's wife? (hope I"m allowed to bring up IRL issues here, dunno) I just wanted to put my arms around her and I think we all know exactly how she feels. And more to the point, look at her, everything any man could possibly want...but...no, it's just not about that now is it? Hope she moves along and has a fantastic life but it is bringing the trauma of the BS of someone with SA behaviors to the public's eye.

I've read parts of the interview (not the whole thing in Vogue). But 10 lbs. in five days? I don't know how that happens; maybe she was still working out; I was not. It took me about two months to lose almost 20 lbs., where I eventually stabilized. Unfortunately, stabilizing my weight has meant adding more non-nutritious sweets to my diet, which in the long term, isn't exactly heart-healthy. But when I have setbacks, I can easily lose another 3-5 lbs. in the matter of a few days to a week. I'd say my last setback was in March when H owned up to his sex addiction.

Mostly because he will not own up to his actions, I hope he gets a long jail sentence. If he'd taken his recovery serious at The Meadows, I might have a tiny bit of compassion for him.

Sami, I read it just hours before H and I went to our therapy session. The word that struck me the most was "humiliation." It's so loaded. I think I felt, still feel, humiliation on more than one level. What her H did was disgusting. What my H did was different but disgusting. I think if it has been a typical affair, the kind that gets a nice movie with nice music, tears, an epiphany when the betrayer realizes what was really important, what s/he really loved, well, if that I know I would be in great pain, extremely hurt--but this other type of betrayal is more disgusting than hurtful; it left me more nauseous than broken hearted. And more humiliated. I think I could speak of "my husband's affair" but can't speak of his going twice a week to erotic massage parlors for massage and hjs. That's beyond creepy. It's humiliating.

Anyway told our C about reading her story and how it triggered me; he had one story better; seems H's wife and Huma Abedin have become friends. I too have become friends with other spouses of deviant partners. And no, it's really never about our looks--it's really never about us at all. And that's so sad but true.

I felt for her. I've read so many comments that "she must have known something." It's heartbreaking. She is shamed and blamed for something she didn't do and isn't responsible for. I am so fearful of what she is going through if others really knew about my husband. I dread that fear. It's toxic.

I think her husband is all about power over and the degradation of women. And he eroticized it. Ugh. Scary.

Marji, I hear you. I think I felt humiliation throughout my marriage, sometimes with clear reasons and sometimes without. I also felt discredited and devalued.

Then the shock...then more humiliation and it took a while for me to realize my level of disgust for my husband. And that is reasonable. And shame: shame about his behavior and thinking, shame about my marriage, shame about being with him. It's a tough loud to handle.

It's not about us, but the impact on us is profound.

Sending love and light today.

ashestophoenix

Thank you Ashes. It helps so much to know that someone else can understand. It's a very tough load to handle.

Funny thing--a week or so after discovery we went ahead with a two year in the planning vacation with his sister who was traveling from the west coast. I didn't have the heart to ruin her time and we were going to a very lovely, very pretty place. He offered to tell her but what he was going to say was that he "had cheated" on me; that he "had been disloyal." Something to that effect. That made me very angry and I was having none of it. It sounded so mild, so relatively normal, so relatively human and acceptable. I said no. That he had to tell the truth. Actually I wound up telling her and she didn't even know what "happy ending massage" meant. Felt beyond sick and creepy explaining.

And I still resent and do not let pass when he says he's "sorry for hurting you, causing you such pain." The words do not fit right. Again I explain, "not hurt, disgust. Pure, unadulterated disgust, and not so much pain as nausea."

So yes, I think part, maybe most of the humiliation, is how could we have chosen such a person to share a life with in the first place, notwithstanding we had no idea what they were doing, and how can we continue to share? Answer to the last part, the pro/con list so far had more pro stuff. And emphasis on the "so far."

Anyway, truly, thank you again.

maybe most of the humiliation, is how could we have chosen such a person to share a life with in the first place,

So, my perspective of this is partly about the nature of addiction. I truly believe that addiction of any type changes the brain in such a way that the "person" does things they wouldn't ordinarily do when they were in their "right" mind. This is a visceral reaction of mine, maybe, maybe not academically proven. The things that my husband did were so sordid, so out of character that they simply could not be "normal" for him.

And maybe the term addiction isn't accurate. Maybe it's simpler and more widespread, a matter of bad habits on steroids. Maybe it's because they are just children who haven't ever learned or been taught self control and discipline. Their bad habits lead to pain and damage to everyone around them. My lack of self control results in eating an entire candy bar at one sitting and I'm the only victim.

This is part of the reason I believe he is so happy, so contented now. He's no longer living that terrible life.

I am not ashamed for myself. Anymore. I recognize that it's all on him. I don't advertise it, only a very few people IRL who know smatterings of the truth, and all you good people here.

We are all heroes in our lives.

Happy Mother's Day to all the mommies here.

I'm heading into a rough week here. It will be a year ago this Friday that H took the bitch on a business trip with him for two nights (although I don't know why she went to all the trouble - he really was on a business trip and had every moment spoken for except for dinner and bedtime), and she told him it was safe to have unprotected sex according to her app on her phone that kept track of her cycles. And she ended up pregnant.

When certain significant dates like this come up, we try to make plans to create a new more positive memory, so we are heading to the west coast from Wednesday to Sunday to see our daughter. I forewarned H that, although I'm looking forward to it, he needs to be prepared for me to have triggers as I remember what he was doing a year ago and how that pregnancy almost destroyed our family (although our grown daughters do not know about it); she had been telling him for weeks and weeks that she wanted him to divorce me, marry her and start a family, and he repeatedly told her no, he was not interested in having kids... that he'd already done that. But the bitch tried to entrap him anyway; thankfully she must have sensed the hesitation in his voice when he told her it would be OK, he'd 'do the right thing', because the next day she called him to arrange a meeting, and told him she thought ending the pregnancy was the best idea, and he quickly agreed. Of course, that started three miserably hellish weeks for him as she realized he had no intention of leaving me, but he had to remain in contact with her to take her to her three-week post abortion follow up. It was in the middle of that three-week period that I found out about her existence, but for four weeks, I was led to believe it was only an emotional affair. I didn't find out about the pregnancy and abortion until mid-September, when H confessed. It was one of the few things he confessed to me without my discovering from snooping. Funny thing is... he said he wanted to tell me because my snooping abilities had been so stellar - he'd convinced himself that somehow I was going to discover this bit of information, so he fessed up. And thing is... I have no idea how I would have discovered it - there was no paper trail, anything. The only way I might have found out is if the bitch had reached out to me and told me, and to this day, she never has.

But yea, it will be a year ago this coming weekend, and I can't get my mind off of it. Tonight we were at dinner, and as I was looking out the window of the restaurant I saw a couple of strollers go by with swaddled babies in them and kept thinking to myself, "That could have been H." And I thought to myself, that bitch is probably wallowing in her pain that she's not a mother this Mother's Day, and you know what I thought? Karma's a bitch. I told H I wasn't proud of what I was thinking, that it is definitely a dark side of me that I don't like, but if I was going to be honest, it's what I was thinking.

Please, please, please let this week go by without any major visits down any dark rabbit holes on my part. After this weekend, we only have one more major one-year anniversary period in mid-June, and then it will be a year since he's had any contact with her.

I'm sorry, Number4. I get it. May was c always my favorite month, birthday, birth of DS1, spring, gardens, etc. May was also the month I find out some truths although I didn't get the whole story until January. Mother's day a few years ago was also the appearance of DS1's bipolar. He was outrageously manic when he came to see me that day and was sent home from work because of it. That lead to more than a year of unemployment, and a roller coaster while he tried different medications. It was a terribly scary time.

I'm several years past ask that. Truly past. I have been feeling actual JOY. In nature, in my home, my kids, even my husband. I never thought I'd ever feel that way, my NORMAL, again. I do. There is a light at the end of that tunnel.

Hugs.

[This message edited by Lionne at 8:46 AM, May 14th (Monday)]

I am curious if anyone here has told family about your WS (either your family or WS’s family) and how many details you divulged.

__________

I love my mother in law - all of my husband’s family has been more like family to me than my own - but she always coddles and defends her eldest son (my brother in law) who had an EA turned PA and is now getting a divorce. She always makes the wife out to be the bad one in the relationship, saying that she drove my brother in law to cheat, etc etc. While his wife does have a whole host of issues and is a pretty toxic person (stealing money from their children, etc) NOTHING excuses cheating.

My mother in law doesn’t know that my husband cheated on me although she does knows we’re having “issues.”

I don’t think I could really tell her even if I wanted to - she is so heartbroken over my brother in law’s divorce already, like, to the point that she is on medication for the depression/anxiety. I don’t think she could handle knowing that her other son did the same thing.

(Especially since my WH is the youngest son, the favorite, basically infallible in her eyes ... Case in point, she always asks us how we’re doing but all she REALLY is asking is how HE is doing ... never really checks in on me at all. But then, she doesn’t know what’s going on, so how would she know to check?)

But seriously, it is triggering me so hard to hear her talk like that. I wish there was some way I could let her know if upsets me without having to explain why.

[This message edited by DogsnBooks at 11:48 AM, May 14th (Monday)]

DognBooks - all of our parents are dead and have been for almost 15 years, so no parents to tell anything to. I told my oldest brother because I thought he sort of had my back; ends up he doesn't and has criticized me for not granting forgiveness to my husband yet. My other two brothers are dead.

H finally told one of his brothers a couple of months ago, and it ends up he himself, had engaged in some online virtual relationships years back. He supposedly has told my H that he doesn't think H is a sex addict... I'm guessing because he doesn't want to face his own behavior and question it. But they are working on reconnecting as brothers after many, many years of really nothing, so I let go anything that is said between the two of them. H has another brother than neither one talks to. I'm fairly certain he is at least an alcoholic, if not more.

The thing I find interesting in talking to families about is, is this a cycle that hasn't been broken. I remember asking H several times if he every had any inkling either one of his parents had had affairs, and he said no. But lo and behold, once he reconnected with his brother, and I asked him, he told me yes, their father had acted out sexually at least with affairs that he knows of. Their mother told him this years after their father died, but because H and his brother weren't really talking then, we had no way of knowing. It paints a bigger picture for me, and informs me where H learned his behavior from, even if he didn't know what was going on at the time. He learned how to emotionally disconnect from his family and use various substances and behaviors to self-medicate his pain. We are just learning about what some of his pain was - evidently when he was a teenager, he was driving a car that had an accident with another car (maybe they were playing chicken?) that his best friend was driving, and his best friend died.

I'm not sure you're going to get that kind of helpful information from your MIL, though, so you have to decide the ramifications of telling her anything in more detail. It's just information you can't take back, and it could alter your relationship with her forever. So I'd say give it some more time, let it settle in your mind before making a decision.

As the mother of sons, I can't imagine condoning or encouraging infidelity. But, I'd always love them. I hope I'd feel that way about any daughter in law, too, I haven't been afforded that gift. Frankly, I think this is a message best conveyed by her son. Tell him how her comments make you feel. it's up to him to tell her why the comments trigger you.

My MIL was faced with this issue with my husband's brother. He cheated in TWO marriages. It wasn't addressed, as far as I know, but new wife, most likely NOT the OW was accepted, old wife's friendship was mourned.

I just don't want you to be hurt by MILs potential lack of empathy.

My SAWS ran to his mommy on Dday eve to cry to her about getting caught. Her reply was "weren't you getting what you need at home?" His reply to her then was that we hadn't had sex in years. True but only due to him saying he had ED, which he did have problems with, and him telling me that he couldn't. He had since told her that he's been with 100+ women and that he was afraid to give me a STD. Her reply to him was. "I still love you." I just recent found out that during his first marriage that he would receive letters at his mother's house from one of his out of state women and his mom would save them for him to give them to him when his ex wasn't around. When I asked him why she thought that was ok he said that it was during her affair and that she didn't care. She has also told him that I'm taking this too hard and that she didn't act like this when she found out that her spouse was having a affair. Needless to say my MIL is a big trigger for me. BTW, I have spoke my mind to her but of course she just brushed it off and told me that she didn't want to lose me. I do dread the 2-3 times a year I have to see her.

Hugs and strength to all of us!

Wow... I have some pretty horrific stories of my MIL when she was still alive and before the infidelities took place, but if I had to deal with what you all are facing every time you see your MILs, I think I'd have to gracefully decline any opportunity to spend time with her.

In fact, I did for several years after something really hurtful that she did. I was pregnant with #2, and on bed rest after almost losing the pregnancy; my mom was unavailable so MIL came to 'help'. After the second night of H telling her she could not smoke in our teeny tiny apartment, that she had to do it outside, she replied, "If I'm stuck here taking care of you all, then I'll smoke wherever I want." I got up (yes, I was supposed to be on bed rest), ran out of the apartment to a friend's place and cried for about an hour before I called H to tell him where I was. He told me he'd already been in touch with his dad and his mom would be on the first flight out in the morning. So after I knew she'd gone to bed, I returned home, wrote her a letter, snuck it in her suitcase, and told her I'd never do anything to come between her and her son or grandchildren, but I could never communicate with her again. Over the years, it eventually thawed where we could be superficially civil with each other, but if we saw each other once every year or two, that was a lot - of course, we did live 1000+ miles from each other. And she's been dead for over 15 years.

If she had been alive and found out about H's sex addiction, I'm guessing she'd also be of the mindset that some of these other MILs spoken about here would be. Poor baby, what isn't your wife giving you? She needs to get over it.... blah, blah, blah.

Not to say it hasn't hurt me tremendously that my only remaining brother sort of admonished me for not forgiving H yet, telling me we couldn't begin the real repair work until I did.

Icky, icky phone call today with an attorney. I've been paranoid since I found out all of H's affairs were with women from work. In today's workplace culture, you never know who will come forth and lodge a complaint. To be transparent, he had NO supervisory position over ANY of them; none of them were even in his department; we're talking a company with 30,000 employees, so they were as removed as possible from each other. And all of them now have jobs at other companies at least 700 miles from here.

But, as you can tell from my screen name, #4 worries me. And I don't know who has any influence over her if she tells her story to someone. I am all for the MeToo movement (I've suffered my own sexual harassment many moons ago, as have my daughters ), but these were all consensual affairs H had. Sometimes I feel like a hypocrite... I want women to find their voices, and then I remind myself there is a difference between sexual harassment and consensual affairs. I do think some people these days see any sexual workplace involvement as sexual harassment and I think they are going overboard. I know for a fact these were consensual; I saw emails. But his company won't give a shit due to the current workplace culture.

Anyway, despite H's stellar career for almost 30 years at the same company, the attorney told us because he's an at-will employee, if any of these women come forth (again, I only worry about #4) and lodge a complaint against H, they can fire him for no reason. They don't even need to investigate.

The good news is, the attorney told us to find a copy of H's pension plan (yes, he's lucky in that his company still offers them), he did, and there is nothing they can do to take that away, no matter what he might be terminated for.

MILs - horrific story to add

From DD1 I told my SA that I would no longer have to have any contact and I have not

SAs brother is a convicted pedophile. He “touched” his stepdaughter is the story they tell. So despite years of MIL saying pedophiles are incurable and should be “put down” she suddenly changed her tune.

Now for years it’s been that the sex offender registeries are wrong and “how can he live a normal life if he’s forced to be on such a list”. And when we had to be around him and I would not let my children be alone with him, “how dare you make him feel bad!”

A few years ago he grabbed and “touched” our 18 year old niece and both the MIL and the mother of the niece (sister of SA and BIL) told her to “get over it”, “stop making a disturbance”.

Mind you SIL was molested by their father.

So yep- my SA is her least favorite child - and since I told him I’m NC with his siblings and mother but he can see them, but he has gone NC too.

His FOO is huge. But so was mine, and I didn’t sleep with others.

Dogs

It just depends.

When I was first married, my MIL and I had a pretty arms length, but cordial relationship. DH and I have been married will be married for 17 years, now..and MIL has been a part of my life, now, for over half of my life.

Now. It's much different. We've had discussions before about DH's personality (framed around some things that in the situation, can be short comings). Right now, I don't think it's my job tell DH's story. It's his. However, should we divorce or separate, I WOULD tell MIL why. (My husband is an addict who is not interested in really working a recovery.) And I would also talk to her about some things..like I would work towards making sure my kids still have a good relationship with her, etc.

Now, I told my parents. It was a HUGE mistake. My parents never liked DH from the start. This information didn't make matters easier, especially since we've remained married.

My parents behavior really made me feel like I had to choose either them or my husband. I chose my husband (and to go along with that...working on living a life free of dysfunction/codependency as I was in a codependent relationship with my parents).

My parents have no interest in interacting with me when I'm emotionally healthy. They want to keep me in a codependent relationship with them. So, consequently, we have no relationship now.

I find it fascinating how similar our lives and spouses and FOO are similar. After my husband was extorted from a one night stand he wanted to tell his mommy too. That's before we got the entire sorid tale.

Also, in MC a few weeks ago we were discussing how I didn't have that fairy tale childhood either... lots of emotional neglect from my alcoholic father and my mother with a serious cancer diagnosis that took years of dr appointments and treatments and surgeries. I got shuffled around to different houses all the time, plus just the usual teenager stuff. A general dislike for me because I was an independent strong willed child.

It's strange how my husband's childhood seemed so "perfect" and mine seemed so stressful, yet he is the one with the compulsive insecure personality. I've never hurt anyone ever despite my struggles during childhood... yet he's hurt lots and lots of people and been very self destructive.

Ifeelalone -

I think the same thing about my WH’s childhood. It really is strange. Not that he had it perfect - both of his parents almost died within a year of each other when he was 13, which was hard.

But if we are going to have a pissing match over it, I think my childhood was definitely worse. His parents were always loving and supportive and openly communicative, while mine were cold and closed off, and my dad was physically and emotionally abusive.

And yet, I have managed to pull myself up by my bootstraps and come out the other side stronger ... why couldn’t he? Why did he become a selfish, self-absorbed, pain-causing person?

And yet, I have managed to pull myself up by my bootstraps and come out the other side stronger ... why couldn’t he

Question for the ages. I have a similar story, nasty, alcoholic mother , FOO dysfunction that would curl your hair. I finished college in 3.5 years, paying by myself, got a job offer in the AM signed an apartment lease in the PM. My parents didn't come to my HS graduation and I didn't tell them that I had graduated from college. I wasn't in a good place, took me awhile to get my head together. But I did.

His family was odd, a mother from another culture with her own set of insecurities, but they were supportive, showed up to events, encouraged academics, music, etc. But his mother had undiagnosed mental illness, possibly bipolar.

I believe much of my husband's addiction stems from HIS bipolar. We found a letter from a doctor who treated his mother when she went back to her native country. It described a breakdown that included "inappropriate sexual conduct." !!!!

Mental illness isn't an excuse either. But it sure suggests cause and effect.

Is this right? Happy Birthday Lionne!! hope it's a fabulous day!!