SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Good post.

Write you wife back and thank her for sharing her thoughts as far as they go.

Would you prefer to learn about the contents of her past communications with OM from her? She apparently remembers enough of it to know that it is damning. If she could bring herself to speak up in advance, would it lessen the damage?

What did the marriage counselor say on this count?

LongWalk

Would you prefer to learn about the contents of her past communications with OM from her? She apparently remembers enough of it to know that it is damning. If she could bring herself to speak up in advance, would it lessen the damage?

This I have obsessed over. My focus through this entire ordeal has been to stay strong and true to myself. There is no doubt in my mind that had I hashed it out with her in the beginning, I would have caved. I caved somewhat in MC. I am not sure but I believe the reason I have not wanted to hear any details from her lips is self-preservation. Cut off that which may harm you.

I do not believe my marriage is worth preserving. I do not believe I can have a meaningful relationship with WW ever again.

I have not leaned on her to confess all because now, everything must be on my terms. This may not even be making sense, but I have been emasculated enough without begging and probing my WW for tidbits of germs from her dirty diseased encounters with OM.

The squalling and crying I have done; I am so glad she has not been around for that. I have only given her my anger and disgust and that just wouldn't mix very well with me asking her to please, pretty please share with me all the sordid details of her nasty little secrets.

What did the marriage counselor say on this count?

The marriage counselor said I was wrong to keep her cell and computer and would only make a bad situation worse.

HobbesTheTiger

Get a new MC for the remaining two sessions. This time, YOU pick the MC and you ensure it's a good one, 'cause this one isn't.

I would agree, except, I do not want a good MC. This is probably because I do not feel like I need marriage counseling; I need divorce counseling. You guys told me what I was likely to hear from MC and I must say, you were right. Very right. My darling WW had already seen MC at least four times and I think MC was just itching to devour me.

Fuck MC. Seriously, just dispense with it.

Most of us have been saying, all along, that MC with an unremorseful spouse who is still lying and protecting her secrets and lies is DANGEROUS to the BS in MC.

DANGEROUS. Dangerous emotionally, and dangerous in terms of creating a medical record of anger that, while perfectly natural, normal, and warranted by the situation can be twisted and used against you.

STOP DOING THINGS THAT HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO HARM YOU FURTHER.

I may struggle with my husband's cheating. But I struggle a shitload more with the ways in which I conspired, with him, against me. I'm five years out, and still get frequent object lessons in the failure of that approach--which happens to be much like your approach.

STOP CONSPIRING AGAINST YOURSELF AND YOUR CHILDREN.

ETA: You have reached the conclusion that the marriage is over. So end it. There is no need to do anything other than what YOU find useful, at this point. There is no prize for sticking it out and playing nice with a remorseless cheater who wants to (a) build a case against you, and (b) emerge the victor, reputation intact.

[This message edited by solus sto at 11:37 AM, May 3rd (Sunday)]

We had our first MC on Wednesday and you would not believe how I have misconstrued and blown all out of proportion this entire ordeal. It turns out that I am a bad guy and a bully and the main issue is not my WW's infidelity at all. The problem is my anger.

Yes. This is not good at all.

The marriage counselor said I was wrong to keep her cell and computer and would only make a bad situation worse.

Hm. Nothing about your wife withholding the truth from you then? It seems like you're going to get nowhere fast here. What's the point of even going to any more sessions? Is it that you are still hoping for your wife to give you the passwords after the third (fourth?) session?

[This message edited by sinsof thefather at 11:44 AM, May 3rd (Sunday)]

Solid Sto is right on . Tell that idiot MC to jump off the nearest fucking bridge. To tell you to just be a good little boy and eat the shit sandwich makes any further session totally useless.

There is so much damaging stuff on that I Pad or computer and phone that your wife knows she is dead meat once you read it, and her crap about wanting to protect you is not worth the air it took to utter the words.

Stop the nonsense . Break into the Damm devices now before she does delete the stuff and it will be much more difficult .

Solus has a point.

Attending two more sessions, just to have a warped sense of permission to open those devices, is not good for your psyche.

Only you know if it is worth it to put yourself thru that frustration.

Your wife's email would have been a true expression of remorse....if her actual behavior up until now hadn't been so selfish and f#cked up.

Can't you just serve her papers and walk away?

DG,

Is she still saying it was an EA and not a PA or it does not matter after all.

I agree with others, two more sessions with those two harpies might seriously mess with you. That's why I recommend you find another MC. You might as well enjoy two more sessions of your WW being roasted by some competent MC.

I dunno. I couldn't stand being told for two more sessions how wrong I am blah blah blah.

My advice is to either find another one or dispense with the MC entirely.

Best wishes

The emails from your wife make me physically sick. They don't ring true. WW sounds like she has an agenda. And she is smarter than you now. And she is getting more and more powerful, while you are getting (from my point of view) more and more passive. She is engaging your offspring to take her side and you haven't been able to counter that. Speaking together with MC? Why didn't you run when that bullshit started? Do you feel that you are procrastinating, that you're too afraid to really take matters in your own hand and end it? Are you strong enough? As I see it WW is gaining momentum for things to come and she is going to win if you don't do anything. And for f#*k sake, hack that laptop an phone, Jezus.

I have agreed to six counseling sessions. At the end of third session, WW gives me the passwords and written permission to get information from cell and computer.

So, one session finished, two more to go, and you get the passwords and her permission. Is that still your plan?

Well, your MC is focus on rugsweaping the whole thing.this is part of the deal to get the PS and her agreement.

I believe that she exagerated your anger in order to put MC on her side as your kids and friends. IMO as you pointed out she had never saw you that anger so she was, and is, on damage control self preservation mode. This doesnt mean you have an anger problem but in her eyes was a way to get time.

IMO your anger is not a bad thing, in fact as you pointed out is helping you. What may be an issue is the way you manage it but so dar you havent done anything stupid, rigth? Make clear next time to the MC guy this. Your anger is something you are feeling g but so far you have it under control. MC id trying to make you feel the more calma as you could be before trading the email and text in order to give your WW a chance.

Get your self in IC on your own and let MC know that you are already taking carne of you self, so please move to another subject.

Other thing, IMO she has already deleted all the emails from her email since day one after Dday, as I believe is the same one she is using to email you.

Well, your WW has just enlisted another person. the MC, to work against you. I am just amazed at the lies WW can turn out in one short email (She's not even my wife and I felt like throwing up). She is running circles around you and you are standing still, both feet in cement.

After reading her email and hearing how she had 4 sessions with MC to brainwash him and enlist him against you, she has made it a "My husband has severe anger issues" instead of the real problem "I'm fucking some other guy behind my husband's back and bad angry BS wants the truth". She has made you into a villain.This leaves you no choice.

I promise, I have not deleted any items in the cell phone or tablet. I did not even know this was possible.

Lie, lie, lie!

It destroys me to know some of the things you are going to read and I told myself I was protecting you, but maybe I have been protecting myself.

Mostly protecting herself.

I totally panic when I think about you reading the disgustingly sick things I wrote. I did not mean any of it and I was totally out of mind.

I imagine!

There is only one question left in your mind,

"SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO?"

The only place you will find your answer is in the laptop and the cell phone.

Just one more thing, in MC ask your wife to come clean with your kids and all people she used to put you on MC, to clean your name. Ask her to tell them about the pics and the motel metting.

I agree with Hobbes and Solus Sto.

Dump the MC and provide a reason why. Here goes: The problems have to be addressed for all and your problem and the reason why your marriage is falling apart is because of your wife's infidelity. Her infidelity is not being addressed properly or to your satisfaction. Tell the MC she is helping your wife in her affair and burying the truth and you aren't there for counseling with her wife and her 'advocate' and call the MC an advocate for her. Tell the MC you feel she has been one sided, an advocate for your wife and you have left each session more damaged than the first.

Keep in mind that your MC may either be a sexist herself or may not have experience in MC. Either way, she's not helping. Fire her. Then get divorce counseling for yourself.

I take it your wife still has not come clean with you so it's time to end it all.

Then fire the MC.

DG:

A window into your future - - -

Since you mentioned the word ‘cave,’ for just a moment, let’s take divorce out of the equation.

An MC really only has two avenues in an A situation.

1) Complete disclosure, complete honesty, and work to rebuild the M.

2) Withhold as much information as possible from you to minimize the damage and patch the relationship up through counseling sessions.

ie:( let time heal the wounds.) Which I don't believe, but that's another subject.

I think it’s clear which avenue they’ve chosen.

Seven years ago – our MC said: “If you want the marriage to work, then you don’t give ‘details’ about the A.”

‘Details,’ however, is a relative term. I didn’t want to know gory details – like how far his tongue would reach down her throat or exactly how many times it had been there. I wanted ONE detail. Did they have intercourse?

Yet – of course FWW used the MC’s desire to avoid details as an excuse to NOT provide any. Long story short – 2 years later, after two years of sleepless nights and nightmares, I was still neck deep in emotional turmoil still wanting the answer to my ONE question. Then FWW finally admitted OM performed oral sex on her one time. Now, 5 years further down the road – I still struggle.

Our MC was also our Minister of 30 years. I caved, trusting he would not mislead me through such a horrible time.

Point is – this is an avenue you DO NOT want to take. I tried to make this clear, earlier in this thread, about 4 pages back. The information is the ONLY thing that will preserve your sanity, give you peace of mind, and allow you to make ‘informed’ decisions.

Without it –

1) If you Divorce – you will always second-guess your decision to do so unless you have ALL the information to make an informed decision.

2) If you R – you will be struggling for years to come (like me) wondering if you know all that happened between them. Every time you snuggle up next to her – the thought of the OM will cross your mind – wondering what she did with him.

As others have advised and as I said in my previous post – GET the information. If you are not satisfied with what is, or is left, on the PC and Cell, then demand a poly…

Do whatever you have to do to get the information. Then make your ‘informed' decision…

That is the ONLY way you will ever have peace of mind.

DoneGone your decision to move towards divorce is the correct one. Your WW had a physical affair and is scared to death she will be exposed. So she has enlisted an army of enablers to fight you. She is the worst kind of cheater in my opinion. My WW was a slut, but in the end she owned what she did and came clean. She never tried to turn others against me.

My feeeling is you need to tell your daughters what you believe and how you feel about your wife. You need to move forward with divorce, mourn the loss of your marriage (not the loss of your broken wife) and move on to a happier healthier future.

MC is an absolute waste of time. I hope your WW is footing the bill.

My only concern is that you are not communicating to your WW the same things you are telling us. Maybe you are but you don"t talk much about what you are saying to her. I hope you are telling her in great detail just what you think about her MC and what you think about her subterfuge and nasty tactics.

[This message edited by BeerParty at 3:45 PM, May 3rd (Sunday)]

I do not believe my marriage is worth preserving. I do not believe I can have a meaningful relationship with WW ever again.

I felt this way. Look I get where you are at. I realize you don't know me, but would you please do me a favor?

So she saw the MC for 4 sessions alone, misdirecting him onto your anger and issues she now finds in the M, not her A, so she has manipulated the MC too. Your MC wasn't professional, and doesn't seem like he wanted to hear anything about how you feel or what your thoughts are. Not a good sign. He wasn't objective.

Your WS has once again proven how manipulative she is. She stacked the deck against you. You have no idea what she told the MC, or if any of it was truthful. Your trial was done behind your back and you are found guilty. (You don't even know what you were on trial for, since she committed the crime).

Run. She really doesn't want you to read or hear what she wrote or said. She knows it is all bad. Don't have her tell you any of it. She will minimize, shade the truth to her advantage and try to misdirect you. Hear and read the evidence for yourself.

She wants this to all go away, oops I made a mistake, just forget all about it. I want my M, but I don't want to deal with the pain I have caused you or truly help you heal. This is all about her avoiding her consequences. That she could so callously go into MC with that attitude is just so low.

I did not mean that you should ask "pretty please" for her to explain. She ought to be proactive if she wants to save your marriage.

What she wrote should not be rug swept. She should read it to you and offer her explanation. All she can really say is that she was just spewing out to stuff to her AP to please him and decrese her guilt. This may be true but even lies that uttered to heighten the beauty and pleasure of fornication have some root in reality.

Even if you have determined to divorce her, don't you think you should read what she wrote to confirm your judgment?

You have two sessions of MC before she coughs up the passwords.

Re: the low quality of your MC

It is good that you can tolerate her. One of the questions that you might ask for advice is how you should present the divorce to your daughters. There is no point in quitting this therapist now. It will just provide your wife with a reason to delay being honest.

[This message edited by LongWalk at 4:11 AM, May 4th (Monday)]