SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Solus Sto is right.

The MC is not helping you at all

if you can't get a new one at least stop with this MC, it is only hurting you.

I would still get into those communications on her cell phone and computer. This might help you more then anything, it might not be as bad as you think.

In my opinion this marriage counselor just plan sucks.

Western has a good response to tell the MC and wife why you may choose not to go back.

[This message edited by convert at 9:46 AM, May 4th (Monday)]

DG,

Hold on buddy...you are doing well. I have read your thread once again today and frankly speaking obviously your wife had carried on her fantasies while texting OM and you will learn about it when you access her phone and PC.

She agreed to meet him in a Motel and you caught her, but believe me if she wanted to continue that even with you interrupting her with your phone call she would have done it.

You are devastated and angry, it is you right. However, I feel that your wife has come back to her senses and she is hurt and broken. She is admitting it. I believe that you are still in a fixable situation, so don't loose your faith. You are doing everything as it supposed to be done, just don't rush into a decision with anger. give it some time, have some distance and try to vent. Sometime people can loose it in fantasy world and that could happen to anyone of us at moment of weakness (Human Nature). I'm not defending her or trying to reason with her, but it hurts to see nice couples like you getting separated after two or nearly three decades.

Take some time try to understand WHY? if fixable or not. Have some faith, God be with you and wish you the best for you however it ends.

When you started this journey you did not want to rush to divorce in part because punishing your wife was important to your equilibrium. You loved to hate her because you still loved her. The connection simply couldn't be broken. How much of our brains are hardwired to emotional relationships? To love makes us vulnerable. No wonder infidelity is a blow that changes people.

So what is the best course of action to heal well? What will reduce further permanent damage?

When someone has knife in them, pulling it out can be the beginning of the end because the blade that severed the blood vessels now blocks the flow of blood.

This your wife's argument. You should take tranquilizers before you inspect what awaits in her computer and telephone. If you would let her, she would want to hold your hand and cry with you. And have your daughters calling to console you.

I think you should take control back from your wife. Get an IT geek to get into her computer and telephone. Start reading the contents on Friday night, knowing that you'll have a weekend to digest the material. On this weekend make certain that you have activities planned in the morning and evening so that you do not sit and brood the entire time.

Once you have learned what your wife told you will cause you to harm yourself. You will not do anything but continue to follow the agreed upon MC sessions. Bite your tongue and bide your time.

Once the third session is over you can pull the devices out and hand them over to your wife.

She will want some explanation.

You can reply that since she did not trust to you to know more about the affair, she was effectively taking away your power to feel whatever you had a right to feel. If reading what was there would have enraged you, you wanted to use that rage, probably to divorce, but perhaps to reconcile. Her desire to deprive of you choice is a continuation of the affair.

By telling her you don't want the truth, it will be an emphatic way of telling her you are done gone.

If she begs you to take the computer and telephone and insists on giving you the passwords, that will be some sign that she is willing to face consequences. If she does not, then you know she lacked the courage to fight for your marriage.

You should never tell her that you hacked her devices.

You can do this in front of the MC. Calmly taking back control will help you to heal. Don't let the person who put the knife in decide when to jerk it out.

[This message edited by LongWalk at 12:44 PM, May 4th (Monday)]

Remember when I said NOT to go to her MC pages ago?

It would have been a different matter if you went to an independent one. This one is in your wife's pocket.

You need one experienced in infidelity. Of your choosing.

LW's advice is sound.

Get the info. Go to MC.

I would do it just to see if she gives you the passwords and stops protecting her butt.

That would be telling.

solus sto

“M”ost of us have been saying, all along, that MC with an unremorseful spouse who is still lying and protecting her secrets and lies is DANGEROUS to the BS in MC.”

Point taken a little late. I consider WW as remorseful but resourceful. She has wanted to emerge from this with as much of “us” intact as possible.

“DANGEROUS. Dangerous emotionally, and dangerous in terms of creating a medical record of anger that, while perfectly natural, normal, and warranted by the situation can be twisted and used against you.”

What I discovered in MC is that WW shared everything concerning my erratic displays of anger and seemingly nothing concerning the details of her infidelity. That’s what I took away.

Anyway, the damage has been done. Anger has gotten the best of me on several occasions but never resulted in any type of abuse to WW. I have not used anger to make righteous or unrighteous demands from WW. I have not demanded fairness, appreciation or remorse. I have demanded one thing and only one thing; the passwords, but not in anger but cold hard logic.

On DD and several weeks following, I used anger to hurt WW, but now I use it to avoid feeling hurt; but that doesn't mean the hurt goes away.

sinsof thefather

“What's the point of even going to any more sessions? Is it that you are still hoping for your wife to give you the passwords after the third (fourth?) session?”

That is my goal. I went into the MC thinking I was going to spend an hour listening to some harmless conventional wisdom. I knew it wouldn’t help, but, I didn’t think it would hurt. I was only half right. Attending three MC may be a waste of time but I have kinda painted myself in a corner on this one. The passwords are the prize and it even sounds foolish to me.

nononsense

“Tell that idiot MC to jump off the nearest fucking bridge.”

I told her something like that but I am not as nice as you. Her reply: “Mr. BH, why are you so aggressive and confrontational? Do you feel it is appropriate for you to go nuts when you’re unset?” This was after MC had shared that WW was completely and unequivocally remorseful and I called BS.

Valentinessucks

“Your wife's email would have been a true expression of remorse....if her actual behavior up until now hadn't been so selfish and f#cked up.

I do believe her email was a true expression of remorse. You would have to know her. She doesn’t open that way. However, it is remorse on her terms. My thinking is perhaps faulty, however, my thinking is that I cannot simply divorce her and walk away. I deserve some answers. I need to know. Somewhere down the road I need to get better and I know I need to forgive to live.

Can't you just serve her papers and walk away?

Not anymore. When this was between me and WW I had the option of walking away. Now that WW has brought my girls into it, I will not have them think my leaving home was an over-reaction.

This was after MC had shared that WW was completely and unequivocally remorseful and I called BS. 

She may be remorseful, but you do not have to reconcile. One incident of infidelity is ENOUGH and the MC should get that .

Unlike others, I understand your thinking. You have a goal and you want your girls to know you didn't leave the marriage over a few silly texts. Having them understand this is VERY IMPORTANT. They will ultimately need to know what their mother did and DG has to go through the farcical MC to get the pot of gold.

She has made the focus of MC about you and your anger. Not her A, and TT. She expects the MC to talk you out of finding the information you need to make a decision whether to stay married or not. She wants you to just eat the shit sandwich and thank her for saving you from futher hurt. Sheesh, what do you think about her setting you up. She isn't dealing with her A in MC, she is fixed on working you over, AGAIN.

DG...

Do you think your WW will actually hand over the passwords after the "required" amount of counseling sessions?

Do you have a plan on how to proceed in that event?

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 2:48 PM, May 4th (Monday)]

Good question, Gaby.

The contents of the computer and phone are damning. DG's WW has stated it herself.

That is why a I suggest circumventing the process. Begging to be privy to dirty secrets is demeaning. It makes DG look bad in front of his daughters. He becomes the control freak who cannot deal with Mom's sex fantasies that were not love and never threatened her love for him, at least that is what she will swear to them. It is all just a 50 Shades of Gray fueled impulsive indiscretion. What sort of dad divorces mom because had a middle age crisis?

Since mom and dad love each other why should they divorce over a human failing?

She can tell your daughters that when they all moved out she felt empty and lost. This may even be true.

Tell your wife and the counselor that 40 percent of marriages end in divorce. You are disappointed to be among the legions whose marriages fail, but you no longer foster the illussion that yours was special. I would not mention the passwords again. It is on her to offer them.

This MC who is so brilliant. Why not ask her if she foresees an amicable relationship in the future, such as WW, future grandchildren and you eating ice cream together on a beach.

Will your daughters be alienated from one or another of you? Already the blame has been on you. What does the MC recommend that you do?

Ask and play dumb. Show no anger, only resignation.

Damn. I thought you were going to stay strong and play it through.

The emails on the laptop are probably linked to a cloud email service where the emails have been deleted. I can get you into the laptop if you want access. No questions asked but you'll need to first boot to a CD that you need to burn. It will be done leave no crypto trace behind.

As far as the phone goes if she has a iPhone backup on the laptop then that is the crown jewel, the El Dorado, the best thing ever.

Nothing will leave a single trace. You'll be booting into a Linux environment that has tools that can pull stuff from most Windows partitions and once you reboot there is not trace that it was there. If it is a Mac laptop then it is a slightly differently story.

Also I have done this many times before. Please don't be the person reading these messages first and please don't be alone when you read them.

Hey DG

Her email was "nice".

But if she were truly, truly remorseful she would have stopped covering her butt, not gotten your kids involved and given you the passwords.

True remorse is when the wayward accepts the blame, responsibilities for her actions and the consequences.

HM

He wants the passwords, deserves the passwords.... but I kind of see her point just a bit.

I understand that full disclosure is important, but I'm generally one who reads these events and gets such a damn rage, but I actually thought that her compromise of giving them after 3 MC sessions was a somewhat reasonable one under the circumstances (and I'd be ten fricken times more angry... I channel anger)

Rafi

“Is she still saying it was an EA and not a PA or it does not matter after all”

I am divorcing regardless and I do not mind admitting that I wish there was a way I could stay. There are men who can and sometimes I wish I were one of them; but then I go and spoil it all by saying something stupid like, ‘Oh Hell No.’ I am literally traumatized after a period of considering reconciliation. I wonder if I can trust myself. For 26 years, she was my IV Drip, just like a hard drug I needed in my veins. My life has been absolute shit since I walked out. I only get by minute by minute. Pathetic, I know it. This is why I am careful to keep my distance. She has this power over me, always has. I know that only space and time will heal. I am not willing to invest the next 5 or 10 years of my life trying to get past this and the rest of my life trying to get over it. I do not have those kind of coping skills. It would probably be a life or death situation for me.

HobbesTheTiger

“I agree with others, two more sessions with those two harpies might seriously mess with you. That's why I recommend you find another MC.”

Seriously mess with me? You’re being nice. Did you forget that I fell out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down? I agreed to WW’s MC. You guys warned me. You said it was a set-up. I should have listened. I knew you were right but took the easy way out. I have always said that there’s nothing wrong with me that a good miracle couldn’t cure. I had myself thinking that MC could be a positive step forward. It was just easy and solus sto was right, I have put myself in a bad situation.

Point taken a little late. I consider WW as remorseful but resourceful. She has wanted to emerge from this with as much of “us” intact as possible.

I think you miss the point many of us are trying to get across. WW is not remorseful, only resourceful. She has used her resourcefulness to turn everyone against you, and she did this, not to keep as much of "us" intact, but to keep as much of "her" intact.

She has arranged her story to make it look like she did almost nothing wrong, but that the real problem are your anger issues which will not let you forgive those "minor" indiscretions.

My thinking is perhaps faulty, however, my thinking is that I cannot simply divorce her and walk away. I deserve some answers. I need to know. Somewhere down the road I need to get better and I know I need to forgive to live.

The only way you can find out is to go to an IT person. He will find things you probably won't if WW gives you the password.

When this was between me and WW I had the option of walking away. Now that WW has brought my girls into it, I will not have them think my leaving home was an over-reaction.

You have to meet your girls without your wife and tell them exactly why you and your wife are divorcing. Only the truth will set you free, otherwise you're checkmate.

I am not willing to invest the next 5 or 10 years of my life trying to get past this and the rest of my life trying to get over it. I do not have those kind of coping skills. It would probably be a life or death situation for me.

DoneGone don't do it. I know how you feel. We are here to help you. I know everything looks dark at this moment, but believe me, the sun will rise again. Don't let her do this to you. She thinks about "her", we are on "your" side.

[This message edited by marbou888 at 8:36 PM, May 4th (Monday)]

So run out the clock. When you get asked a question respond with a question. Feign genuine confusion and or a desire for clarification. Pretend you're there for the 2nd of 100 sessions.

So basically don't play the game that they're setting you up to play.

My advice is to prepare a couple of questions and just keep repeating them, more or less, in the following two sessions.

Things like:

"I would now like us to focus on her infidelity and lying."

"I would like to hear your recommendation how to ensure she won't cheat or lie again."

"I would like to know the full truth before we talk about other things."

"I would like to talk about how inappropriate it was to involve our daughters in this."

Stuff like that. Keep focused on these things, don't let them engage you in other things. Keep the offense going, don't go on the defense. If they try to change the subject, just say one of your lines: "I would like to come back to the infidelity and lying. I think it's important to deal with this first before we address other issues."

Best wishes