SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Done Gone

I am rooting for you man. But if you are done and divorcing her anyway I simply cannot understand why you are letting her manipulate you and play this game . Why don't you just sit your daughters down like it has been recommended , tell them your side of this without her there , and then crack into the computers . I just can't understand why you are putting yourself through this emotional "water boarding ".

If she is smart enough to have done what she has already done, it is highly likely at the end of the three sessions you are going to find out that she has already deleted all of the parts of the information that would be most damaging to her so you will have to hire a computer tech expert anyway .

She must have been at it a real long time because if she had just told you yes I fucked him and here is the truth she might have saved her marriage . Just don't understand why you are playing her game.

Seriously mess with me? You’re being nice. Did you forget that I fell out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down? I agreed to WW’s MC. You guys warned me. You said it was a set-up. I should have listened. I knew you were right but took the easy way out. I have always said that there’s nothing wrong with me that a good miracle couldn’t cure. I had myself thinking that MC could be a positive step forward. It was just easy and solus sto was right, I have put myself in a bad situation.

Ok, so you are in this mess and plan to take it to the end. I'd go with Hobbies suggestion - Keep calm and have some statements ready.

Short calm answers that focus back to your goals and don't get hung up on your anger issues.

That you felt these sessions were to prepare you to read the emails...

Make it a goal to say as little and keep as calm as possible at the next session.

Two more to go. Are they once a week?

What should one do when forced to fight a battle on grounds chosen by the opponent? This MC is a set up to ostensibly protect you from yourself. She even used the word altruistic if I remember correctly.

If you were to extract texts from her computer and phone and bring a print out to MC to discuss, would your wife go to your daughters and accuse you of breaking the agreement?

Would you become the bad guy?

I get it. I really do.

Possible Game plan?:

Take the devices to IT, get them cracked. Get all info. Do not reveal that you did.

Go to two more sessions as if you still know nothing more. Do as Hobbes said: have a mantra of a few questions and remain calm/detached. That is a great way to make it thru the session without losing your mind.

I knew the answer you were going to give was that you need proof to show your daughters. I am getting tears now at how much you love them.

You have got to put an evil face on your wife in order to save your soul. Yes, desperate people do desperate things, but can you ever imagine putting loved ones thru this? She is warped. That IV drip contains lethal poison now.

You gotta do what you gotta do. Everyone here is walking beside you as you go.

Strength.

Just to chime in with the others that she is NOT remorseful....she is resourceful. I know that you may discard these opinions, but believe us when we say this is manipulation. Remorse requires several aspects, and right now, all that you are getting are the words....and maybe some crocodile tears.

I consider WW as remorseful but resourceful. She has wanted to emerge from this with as much of “us” intact as possible.

and

However, it is remorse on her terms.

are not remorse. Remember that.

Being that we are throwing out possible conspiracies, I will give you my current thoughts....take them or leave them:

You already claim that you felt MC was an ambush. Premeditated. Calculated. Something that your WW has manipulated, and molded to her preferred shape. If this was the case, why do you NOT think that she is setting you up about the computer and phone?

My belief is that she has already rid these worst items from the laptop and phone. If she was able to access these accounts(and with her track record, I would think that she has), I would expect that the only remaining items would be the most mild...left there deliberately. That way, when you do access these items...maybe while in a counseling session...all that is revealed is the little bit of "wrongful talk" that your WW has said to your daughter, and others.

You would be made out to look like a mad man. An ANGRY mad man....which is the *real* problem with your marriage anyway, right?

She would virtually be validated. And the emails that she has already sent you, saying the *terrible actions* that she has already taken? In my opinion, these emails to you have one of two reasons:

--The first is that she couldn't get into these accounts, and the damning evidence is still there.

--The second, and what I fear more, is that it is part of her manipulation, and if only some *harmless* emails are on there, and she was SO EMBARRASSED by her actions(as stated in her emails to you), then it is all part of a major gaslighting tactic. I know that this may sound far-fetched and conspiring, but from what I have gathered, she is far more interested in trying to control the outcome than repairing the marriage.

At least that is my $0.02. I am one of the most trusting souls on this planet, but this just seems like a method of control by your wife.

DG,

The last several posts were spot on.

The question is now to you; are you going to follow the advice given here or are you going to go counter to it and come back and say "you guys were right' for the umteenth time.

You need to take the bull by the horns and protect yourself

However, it is remorse on her terms

This is a contradiction in terms.

Honestly what screams through these pages is someone who is used to manipulating you, and someone who at core doesn't know how to respect you.

To involve your children in this is inexcusable. Particularly without discussing the matter with you first.

To put conditions on you reading the e-mails reflects an expectation that she can control you.

I wish you the best.

I'm really struggling to understand why you still feel the need to dance to her tune. She is continuing to control you.

You have decided to divorce. Therefore MC and the passwords are no longer required.

All negotiation about child share and finances should be done through lawyers. Don't imagine for one minute that she will be reasonable on either of those things. She's already getting her ducks in a row to make sure you don't get the kids as much as you might want. She will paint you as angry and "this is not conducive to an environment that is safe for the children" blah blah blah.

You need to cut the strings and stop her controlling you.

I agree. I love having rage, the anger is so calming to focus on. It's like a calming bonfire to stare into when your world is going to shit.

But the downside of anger is that it is an emotion, and people can be controlled by emotions. Worse so, emotional decisions are usually the wrong decisions.

I'm painting this as black and white, your presence here is testament that you're vetting your decisions thoroughly. However, when I once took a management class, the teacher said "the best thing is an angry employee, since you'll get what you need to know out of them with planning. It's the quiet ones who don't show their hands that you need to worry about".

Be this person - in the subsequent marriage counselling sessions do not worry about giving them an answer that fits anything. Ask questions to their questions. Don't be afraid to say "I do not know the answer to that question at this time" or "I'm still a bit raw and am uncomfortable answering that question at this time". Stuff like that. Don't show your hand man, she won't be able to play you if she doesn't see the cards. (and trust me, she knows you have the Royal Flush Divorce hand, you've signalled it, that's why she's playing a defensive game).

wolprut

“And she is getting more and more powerful, while you are getting (from my point of view) more and more passive.”

Really, I have not been passive, maybe deliberate. I do not believe she has put in a lot of thought or consideration in her actions. Admittedly, I have not anticipated WW’s ingenuity and I have been caught off guard. But, I also have an agenda and have tried not be reactionary in my response to her conniving’s. I am thinking long term and when the dust settles I do not want to be faced with a lot of damage control. I do appreciate your observation and sometimes I do feel like I am spending all my time just ducking bullets.

“Do you feel that you are procrastinating, that you're too afraid to really take matters in your own hand and end it? Are you strong enough?”

No, I am not strong enough. I knew this at the beginning and I know it now. This entire situation is impossible. 24 hours a day I want my wife back. Staying away and not responding to her might have the appearance of passivity, but in reality, it is the most proactive and powerful thing I have ever had to do in my life.

Wk55hn

“So, one session finished, two more to go, and you get the passwords and her permission. Is that still your plan?”

Yes, I cannot think of anything better to do at the moment. If all the information has been deleted, then that will tell me something unholy about WW. My next session is tomorrow. That should be fun.

That isn't a marriage counselor. That is your wife's IC as far as I am concerned. Of course she is going to be on her side. She is one of THOSE new counselors that focus on moving forward and how to do things right from now on and not focus on the past or any issues that led to the problem. Your wife is never going to learn how to deal with her issues. IMO I can't stand them. They aren't a counselor. They are life coaches.

YOUR wife does not exist anymore.

The creature you see now has no problem crushing your soul.

Mourn the loss of your marriage/your wife.

Your daughters love you. You will have a strong relationship with them again in time.

Done Gone.

IMO you have done a terrific job keeping yourself from her to see you weak and crying, it makes you look strong, in fact makes you strong, that’s why she was asking for MC. If this is not a terrific anger management I don’t know what else MC wants from you!!! Obviously your wife, as she accepted, used that anger excuse to make damage control and self preservation. She really needs to say that on next MC.

From other angle, once you make clear that you are reacting as well as could be expect under your circumstances, what do you think next MC will be about? As you can read here and in different websites, there is a lot of MCs that focus on rug swept and move on without revealing anything (under the excuse of keeping BS from hurting more and rage) and without taking about it. If you chose to R, now or later, you should look for another MC. Rug swept will slowly kill you from inside, just don’t do it.

You need to know what are you supposed to forgive before doing it.

As I believe, in order to keep the deal, you should do as MC says including homework; make clear that you are not ready to move back home, go on a date with WW or any other contact besides email until the whole affair is outed. If there is more than she already said and you moved back, you will feel like a dumbest men in the whole word, explain that to MC.

Last thing, remember that even if you never get back together she is the mother of your daughters, you two are bound forever so try to not hurt her.

Keep the good job, keep in control.

Good luck

You seem set on divorce over this, which is fair enough.

Just wondered if you have started the ball rolling with lawyers prepared, bank accounts sorted etc.

All the mundane stuff that needs to be done.

I understand what you are doing and I agree that you should just follow it through. To me the MC would be easy,I wouldn't give a hoot about what some wack job drones on about for an hour. I could do that standing on my head. The tough part for me would be to have to face to face with my wife, thinking about all the memories and the life we built together, and now her sitting there and telling me that I can't even read about what she said, that I can't even be privvy to that, that she had some whole other secret life and even now after betraying she still won't let me in on her secret. Her trying to divide our family, what she has brought this into my kids, first with the affair and now by her drawing out all this pain for my kids as well. I don't know what's worse, how sad it is or how angry it makes me.

Perhaps you can vent some of yourself during these sessions. Maybe it can help.

After you get the passwords and her permission, will you continue for the additional three other sessions you agreed?

[This message edited by wk55hn at 10:11 AM, May 5th (Tuesday)]

DG I hope you are doing well today.

You really seem to have the world working against you there - your daughters, neighbour, family, friends, and now a MC telling you to 'get over it' - WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT YOU ARE GETTING OVER!

It is as absurd as you think it is.

I remember some MC sessions we had where I had the exact same feeling/thought "isn't my position so obviously correct that you guys can't just acknowledge it?!?' - in my case it was me stating how much it hurt me that she continued seeing her AP at social work events - for example bbq's at his place where she was the last to leave...

They really said 'nope, don't get why that would bother you - after all SHE PROMISES the affair is over!'

Just accept sometimes you really are dealing with people who will SAY ANYTHING, or cling to any position, to get what they want.

How I deal with manipulators - figure out what they want, and do the opposite.

She wants you to be angry and freaking out at these sessions, so you remain calm and subdued.

She wants to talk about your anger. So you calmly state 'we need to deal with the secrets and details of the affair first - that is the source of the anger, that is why we are here'

She wants to say she is remorseful. So tell her remorse starts with transparency and total honesty, not attempts to CONTROL the situation and you.

Just calmly re-direct them from where you know they are trying to manipulate you, and don't let go of any attempts to again change the subject. Stay on YOUR point until they actually address it fully. And watch the squirming...

[This message edited by jobin at 10:10 AM, May 5th (Tuesday)]

Mrhealed

“I believe that she exaggerated your anger in order to put MC on her side as your kids and friends. IMO as you pointed out she had never saw you that anger so she was, and is, on damage control self-preservation mode. This doesn’t mean you have an anger problem but in her eyes was a way to get time.”

I do not believe it would have been possible to exaggerate my anger when I confronted WW concerning her motel extravaganza. Actually, unbridled rage would better describe it. However, until that time, my wife had only ever seen a gentle, loving man. I voluntarily surrendered my self-control because anger felt so much better than all the other pain I was feeling. I reached a point where I would have done anything to take away the pain and anger was like a sedative. I only went through this phase a few weeks and then I went 180. My point is that where she may not have exaggerated the intensity of my anger, she did exaggerate the extent. I have not exhibited any anger towards her after that initial foray and anger should not have been an issue with MC.

Marbou888

“She is running circles around you and you are standing still, both feet in cement.”

I admit I have been rough and ready in my approach and quite honestly, I have not been prepared for battle. When WW takes her little pot shots, first, I have to calm myself, then try to think clearly and define the situation before taking any action and of course, by that time, she’s usually out or range. My consolation is in knowing that my day will come. And you are mighty right, she has been a busy, busy girl. But she has had a cause and knows she has but little time. Time is on my side. Deleted emails will tell me all I need to know and I can live with that. My decisions at this point are more about my daughters than they are about me.

Western

“Dump the MC and provide a reason why. Here goes: The problems have to be addressed for all and your problem and the reason why your marriage is falling apart is because of your wife's infidelity. Her infidelity is not being addressed properly or to your satisfaction. Tell the MC she is helping your wife in her affair and burying the truth and you aren't there for counseling with her wife and her 'advocate' and call the MC an advocate for her. Tell the MC you feel she has been one sided, an advocate for your wife and you have left each session more damaged than the first.”

You are exactly right and I did express my discontent with MC. She responded by talking me down, like I was less intelligent or sophisticated. When I did not understand her point she would talk louder. On several occasions she said I was contentious and confrontational. That’s just not me. If I could copy and paste I would post it here. I do intend to transcribe parts of it. The more I think about it, the more I believe she initiated the conflict. She definitely was not guilty of being unbiased.

Oh yeah - reading that this claim of out-of-control anger is based upon your reaction to Dday...

I am sure we all have similar stories of how we responded when we found out the person we trusted most had betrayed us so completely...

I saw red for the first time in my life. Was ranting and screaming, calling her every name in the book. I actually don't remember parts. I do remember breaking my passenger side window with my fist. So dumb, but again, I was in a blind rage...

I have NEVER done or experienced anything like that before or since.

I am so easy going day to day it is hard to believe that was me.

I don't believe it means I have 'anger issues'...

jobin

I saw red for the first time in my life. Was ranting and screaming, calling her every name in the book. I actually don't remember parts. I do remember breaking my passenger side window with my fist. So dumb, but again, I was in a blind rage...

In that case, I am dumber than you. I trashed a motel room. I went berserk. It’s like I snapped. I felt something just give on the inside and I was a mess. There was a steady humming noise in my head that was so loud I could hardly understand people when they spoke to me; I could not hear the TV. I was beginning to fear that I’d had a stroke. I was distressed to the point that I could hardly live. I had to concentrate to even breathe. I had this God awful premonition that I would never be the same again. I arrived home the next day and trashed my wife's closet and dressers. That's what I did. I also felt like I was going to have another stroke. The ringing in my ears has persisted but is not as loud or continuous.

I have NEVER done or experienced anything like that before or since

Nor I and it scared the heck out of me. If I did nothing to cause it, then I could do

nothing to prevent it from happening again.

I don't believe it means I have 'anger issues'...

More like temporary insanity with the emphasis on 'temporary.' I actually took advice received here and got some counseling for my anger. Guess what? Good news! Therapist told me that if anger was the only emotional issues I had then I had no problem at all. He told me that of all emotions, anger is the only one we can control.

DG, in your WW's email she mention "tablet". Is this indeed a tablet like and iPad or Samsung where the keyboard is not permanently attached? Can you clarify that? If so, this is very different than a "laptop"