SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Her parents are also probably pushing for R , if only to save face for themselves.

I don't know how long the D process is for you.

However, to de-escalate the drama and give her (and her parents) time to accept a D, consider saying something like:

Although today I'm ready to D, you've got 12 months until the D is final to prove you deserve a second chance.

It is still clearly about her. Her reaction is proof that she isn't going to change. If she cared about YOUR feelings, she wouldn't be acting out in anger, she would be more understanding of how you feel and WHY you are upset. But she doesn't really care. She wants YOU to R (in this case the R stands for rugsweep) so she can tell her family that everything is OK.

HARD 180.

No engagement is best. Hard to apply but....

It's now getting real so she's jumping into self protection mode.

That doesn't last long.

Got into it bad with my WW last night....

I think you handled the situation very well, shutting it down quickly. That said, it seems like the very best perk of divorce is knowing that you'll NEVER be compelled to argue with that person again. If she's mad, sad, frustrated, etc., that's HER problem and not yours. Water off a duck's back. You're moving on to better things.

I messed up. I let something trigger me and I couldn't hold my mouth back. Back on the 180 with a passion now. She just texted me with a "we need to talk tonight when you get home." Yeah right. No way.

Someone asked me if I have revealed that I know about the other nine men. No, I haven't revealed that to her. Like I said I am keeping that ace in the hole for the custody hearings. I have decided that I am going forwards with asking my daughter to move with me into my new townhouse. I know her mom expects her to stay with her, but I'm going to let her know that I don't want her around her mom and other men. I have to figure out a way to broach the subject without being graphic, but my biggest fear right now is my daughter having to be alone in that house while my WW brings over boyfriends. I'm horrified of what that will do to her. So, I plan on going for full custody regardless, and I do plan on letting my lawyer vivisect my WW on the witness stand if I have to.

In ten years you will back on this and wonder what you were thinking. You need to start working on your self esteem. It's not easy. Real Irish woman - I was married to a white South African ex. I must have been one of the original posters here!

I tried to fix it when I found out. The biggest regret I have is that I didn't kick him out immediately.

It took me many years to understand what I was worth.

West:

I don't think it's irreparable but you are letting her trigger you as the stress builds. Her texting you that she's demanding a talk tonight indicates she feels like she has equal control over the situation-- probably because you reacted to her.

Have you ever had a frank discussion with your younger daughter about the events of the past year when your wife was going out to hotels for overnights and you were away on work travel? What did she tell your daughter she was doing? Surely she had to tell your daughter something. Your daughter is no idiot. She had to notice her absence. At this point, it seem clear she hasn't flaunted her affairs too overtly by doing something too heinous, like bringing guys home in front of your daughters. Yet, that could really change when you leave. I think it's a great idea to have your daughter with you. You will have no control over what your wife will do then, the only thing you can control will be how you react to it.

Rex

[This message edited by KingofNothing at 2:19 PM, November 4th (Monday)]

I don't want her around her mom and other men. I have to figure out a way to broach the subject without being graphic

At 16 you could have your daughter emancipating herself? As a back up plan. Maybe mention it to your lawyer.

Then she can choose which house she goes to after the divorce. You wouldn't even need a schedule.

Plus it removes child support divorce with your wife. Maybe make a deal with your daughter to give her the child support at 16 if she follows along. As long as she is responsible enough. Plus mention your concerns.

How much longer until she is 16? Either way, she wouldn't be on your taxes, so 1k missed.

Just another option.

Good luck with the WW.

Brother, Go for custody.

When talking with WW please take a breath. In your mind say 'In with anger out with love'. You do have to communicate with her regarding your children.

When we get into a heated argument we stop using our reasoning skills side of our brain and use the reptilian side. That’s why after an argument we tend to say 'I should have said this' or 'why did I say that’. By taking that breath it slows down our angry response and lets or resigning side kick in.

I feel she is now feeling the heat from her family and the realisation of her actions are now biting her on her bum!

Respect to you.

One day at a time.

Yeah I need to get my act together. I'm going to sit down with my daughter this weekend and ask her what she wants. I hate the thought of hard-lining her is she says she wants to stay with mom. I am nervous about telling her that I am going to ask the court to give me full custody. She will hate me if I force her to move out of mom's house. But I need to be the adult in the room, and in my eyes my WW is an unfit mother. I don't know. Its a messed up situation.

[This message edited by Westway at 4:08 PM, November 4th (Monday)]

. She will hate me if I force her to move out of mom's house. But I need to be the adult in the room, and in my eyes my WW is an unfit mother. I don't know. Its a messed up situation.

Will she, though? How could she possibly side with her mother after all this shit? I didn't want to use the phrase "unfit mother" but since you brought it up, how will you approach minimizing the possible exposure of your daughter to the (ahem, more than one) AP visiting her house? After the divorce your WW isn't going to have a big hotel paying sugar daddy any more.

I would not force your daughter. Lay out the facts (the truth in a sanitized version) but concentrate on being the best father you can be.

At her age you could do more harm than good by trying to force something on her.

I'm planning on being as gentle and straightforward with her as I can. She's 15, right at the most vulnerable time in her life. I don't want her watching her mom's antics and somehow translating that behavior as appropriate. I'm not sure how on my side or her mom's side she is. Like I said before, she internalizes everything, just like her mom does. She is hard to read. I have started inquiring about getting her into counseling as quickly as possible. She needs a third party to talk to, and I need to find a counselor who will not fill her head with stupid shit.

I also went and looked at a really nice townhouse yesterday. It is a three bedroom, so I can have a room for my younger daughter, and one for my older when she comes home to visit. This townhouse is in a newer neighborhood and has all new appliances and amenities. It is just down the street from my daughter's high school. It is way nicer than the old redbrick we live in now. The agent is negotiating and I've got the deposit ready to go.

There's no guarantee you'll be awarded full custody if you ask for it. Therefore, you ought to come out of the gate with both barrels blazing, asking for full custody. As you know, this is an uphill battle for fathers.

Furthermore, even if you are awarded full legal custody, you can always be "generous", a "good guy", and agree to modify it, based on certain parameters, such as no man-friends for sex sessions while your daughter is there.

The norm is 50/50. Talk to your attorney.

I've never seen infidelity alter custody.

Though 50/50 is becoming the norm now a days, your DD age will begin to play a factor. Usually around 16, judges will take into consideration what the child wants. You can get custody and if your DD chooses not to want to spend time with WW, she has the right not to go. And vice versa with wanting to see you if staying with WW.

You have seen your DD, reactions. Your doing the prudent thing of finding her an IC. Keep telling her the truth. Be the dependable parent. The truth will come out. Let her make her own decision. Be supportive of her. Be her champion. She will see who has her back when things get tough.

Yes, at 15 there is a strong chance the judge will place most of the weight on your daughter's preference. We may look at your WW and see her infidelity with many men as making her an unfit Mom, but I don't think the court will. Unless you can prove she consistently neglected the kids. At age 15, your daughter can obviously be alone in the house legally etc. And a single woman having a date come over the house will not be seen as neglect or abuse to a 15 year old by the court. On top of that, WW only met her posom in other locations as far as you know.

It may suck, but the court is going to try to be fair to all parties. I think the strategy is to show your love for your daughter, help her think through what she really wants and then support her with whatever that is. It may also change once you divorce and she is living the arrangment. She may choose to stay with her Mom but change her mind if WW unravels. Hopefully the court decides in a way that your daughter has flexibility both ways.

Thank you all for the advice. Coming out strong is the only way I know how to do things. I guess I need to talk more with my lawyer, and my daughter. I don't really want to get mean with the custody issue, but I will if I think my little girl is going to be compromised. Right now I don't trust my WW one iota. She's a liar and a manipulator, and each passing day I realize more and more things about her personality that I don't like. I guess the love goggles are coming off.

I am meeting with the lawyer Thursday. They have one or two more items to process and the divorce paperwork will be complete. At this point I think I will just sit my WW down and go over the petition with her and see her reaction. I think I am being more than fair with what I am offering her. Five years of spousal support of $1,500 a month until she can get a job and become self-sustaining.

She owns the house outright (it was an inheritance from her grandfather) and all I want is half of the equity it has gained since we got it. Now, I paid for all of the remodeling and upgrades. I could probably go for some of that money, but all I am asking for is 1/2 the market equity, which is not much since all of the real estate values in this city have plummeted over the last twenty years since we have been married. In 1999 the house appraised for about $230k. Then in the mid 2000s, after all auto factories shut down, real estate prices here crashed, the value dipped down to about $70k (no I'm not kidding). It has slowly come back up and is around probably $275k-$300k. So, I want half that increase of $45 to $70k. Is that reasonable? She would have to float a loan on the house to pay me. Could the court award me that?

[This message edited by Westway at 8:52 AM, November 5th (Tuesday)]

With the numbers you quoted you could forgo leave her all the equity and not pay spousal support.

That way, you would have no dealings with her after the divorce.