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I think if you are strong enough you hear what she has to say unless you just want to move on, but I would have a VAR just in case and shut her down immediately if it's going in a direction of blameshifting, gaslighting, being friends etc. You know what you are willing to talk about ,stick to that . Do not say anything you will regret and don't let it escalate Into an argument . Just my opinion.

[This message edited by 1survivor at 1:14 PM, April 2nd (Saturday)]

I would be willing to talk, but the second she tries to cover up, manipulate, deflect, sugarcoat her shit, I'm done.

Talk to her, but before you talk to her, you tell her your set of rules for talking.

You will not waste your time if her talking is only more of the same lies and blame shifting, you dont have time to be lied to anymore.

Even saying that, she will probably fall back on the same crap, and you can then walk away if it is the same old stuff.

Who knows, it might be something different.

I'd give it a shot - because you sound strong enough.

Just be prepared to end the conversation on your terms.

Well, this just got interesting.

I got home from work and said, "OK, let's talk", so we went for a walk. She said, go ahead, talk. I told her I have nothing to say, I'm only here to listen.

She starts out with how she hasn't felt good in a long time, hasn't been happy, etc. I told her that's not my fault or responsibility.

She says the more time that goes by, the more doubt she has that this is the right thing (divorce). She says she realizes she could be making the biggest mistake of her life.

I told her she should cut ties and divorce me, after all, I'm no good. I make her upset, I make her angey, I make her depressed. Told her, just move on with your life.

I DID bring up the fact she's texting my son who is in rehab and early recovery, and telling him how great it is partying all night, how stupid and reckless that was. She just dropped her head because she knew.

We get back to the house and she says "you know I printed out the divorce kit and filed a complaint already, right? I just don't know what to do..." I told her not to worry about it, she already has a back up plan in place, so she shouldn't worry. She looked like a deer caught in the headlights when I said that. Then I just closed the door, walked out, and went for a drive.

Damn that felt good.

Good for you JM.

I hope the drive kept your mind at ease.

Your wife is still acting like a child....

Fog lifting. May be temporary.

I would put the question directly to her: You say you have doubts about divorce. What would YOU do to stop it? What change is coming from her?

That's why I put it the way I did. She's broken. I know it, she knows it. Now she's at the crossroads about what to do about it.

I told her - "I'm not responsible for you being angry, or sad, or depressed, or hurt. It's hard enough taking care of those things when it comes to ME. I never asked for the responsibility of controlling your emotions, and I don't want that job"

She didn't say anything, just looked at me. There's a chance it's finally getting through to her regarding her fixing herself.

Who knows....

[This message edited by JM72 at 10:33 PM, April 2nd (Saturday)]

She may be essentially begging you to tell her what to do to fix herself.

[This message edited by redsox13 at 10:38 PM, April 2nd (Saturday)]

Well then I let her hit rock bottom. I love her, so it's the best thing I can do for her.

I did tell her, "you know when it comes to codependency, you can't separate from the person to fix your problems, right? The whole point is you working on YOU. That's why I go to my meetings"

She knows what she needs to do, she's still afraid of looking in the mirror.

So it's sinking in that the player's not interested in anything long-term and she's looking to come back to plan B after sowing her oats?

Rock bottom is when she comes home to a house without you in it, because you are somewhere else with someone else. Please give her that gift!

You are worth more than this!

Congratulations on your 20 years. That's huge. Just huge! (((hugs)))

It sounds like you're on a good course now mentally. Staying NC as much as possible and continuing the 180 to allow yourself to focus on you and what you need and deserve is a good direction. You're very right. You cannot save her. And you are certainly correct in not supporting her need for you to make decisions for her or give her any outs. Keep throwing her actions and behaviors back on her.

Do you have a gameplan for filing? A timeframe? Yes, you seem to be growing stronger and being able to detach enough to see what you need, but do you have a timeframe to extricate yourself from the morass she's made of your marriage? I strongly suggest that it's time to start thinking about that now. It's a logical progression to getting yourself out of this limbo. And, I believe, a healthy progression.

That was her way of testing whether you would take her back. It sounds like you told her no.

At this point the power is shifting back to you. And you shoukd decide what you want. Divorce or reconciliation.

If R, you need to stop being defensive (your response suggests you were) and instead tell her exactly what you want her to do and how you want her to do it.

Put aside pride and emotion. Be logical. And determine what is in you and your children's best interest.

@ Skan - Thank you!

@ Plan C - yes.

She questioned why I've been so angry, and I told her "because I love you. I've always loved you, but you've been lying, manipulating, and not being honest. How can I NOT be angry?"

I basically told her, I'm doing good going to my meetings, working on myself. She knows it. She sees it. If I didn't care about her, I wouldn't be angry.

So I didn't say I wouldn't take her back, I basically said I'm not gonna accept the situation the way it is. And so she sits, thinking more and more that a divorce feels wrong, saying it might be the biggest mistake in her life, and knowing she's not happy and needs to work on things.

If she's not willing to accept responsibility and work on herself, the marriage is over. If she realizes she needs to fix herself, I'll be willing to wait for her.

I would like to tell you what professionals advised me before going through mediation. The old adage is true, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar". I was told that if I wanted more assets than the 50/50 mandated by my state of residence, that being charming with my WH would get me more concessions. This may or may not be your wife's incentive to buy gifts or remind you of fond memories or insinuate that things may be reparable. But you have to consider it as a possibility. After all, she did take the first steps to end your marriage.

I also want to say that I admire the person you have shown yourself to be based on your posts. Don't sell yourself short.

You've said what there is to be said. You love her,but you will not accept her behavior, and until it changes there is nothing else to say.

If it's going to be fixed, she is going to have to take a step to you.

Well done.

Any serious talk about not divorcing means an STD test and results from her (in writing of course) and a polygraph.

I'd be surprised if she'd agree to those conditions.

I would keep her at arms reach and follow through with the divorce. The only real thing she said was she is confused. That only means she can and will go back and forth. Don't let her put you in limbo.

Good for you for holding your ground.

C

My concern here is that JM has already told her that the lies and manipulation were the worst things but he is willing to take her back. What if she stops lying and manipulating, works on the marriage some but still goes out with other guys and does it openly and in his face? All I've heard us about the lies and elastic behavior but I've heard nothing about reeling in the open marriage tendencies here.

Western, I haven't even thought about that going through this. That whole fantasy thing was supposed to be something we experienced together, built on trust and honest and open communication. That's a moot point with where we are now.

Sounds like you're doing the right things. Now, follow through.

Sending you strength