SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

After she received d papers, she wanted om to commit. He either dumped her or threw cold water on the notion that they were in a committed relationship.

Remember, this is the same woman who left her marital bed in the middle of the night to go be with him.

This is a clear case of narcissism run amuk. You went through hell, yet now she wants to put lipstick on a pig.

Your WW is asking to come back to something that no longer exists. She can never get back the smile from her memories.

When she looks at you, for a very long time, she won't see a smile at all. She'll see pain and hollowness. Later, you'll smile, but it'll be a shadow of what was. Or fake.

Do you think she can handle that? Can you?

I will say this. At least she "seems" to finally be in a spot where you could at least consider R. As often happens, being served divorce papers is the cold slap in the face she needed, to see the reality of her actions.

But, that letter should not resolve her from avoiding the consequences. She would have to earn her second chance and there's a long way for her to go. If you want to consider R, this should be a trial period for you. You don't need to commit to anything right now.

Take your time.

As others, have said, words are very cheap. And very likely lies. Actions are real. So far, she has done nothing to prove any of her WORDS in the email are real.

If you choose to respond, consider that. Her WORDS were very pretty and appear to be contrite. However, her ACTIONS show she still has not respect for you or her marriage. As others have said, she is still with OM, she didn't end that relationship. Didn't quit her job, didn't apologize, didn't DO any one SINGLE thing for YOU!

Does this sound like someone who is serious and deserves the gift of R? Not to me, but it is your choice, not mine.

the hard nosed reality is, she killed your marriage. She killed it when she returned his flirtations. She killed it when she slept with POSOM and let him put his D in her V. . She killed it when she went to live with him.

^^^This. It's still all about her and her universe.

You gave her a second chance. Check.

She left to go live with OM. Check.

Not a peep until she is served. Check.

Otherwise, what? Keep you in limbo while continuing to live with OM?

I have three young adult sons. If either one of them had been in this situation after the living hell I've been through....no kids, cut your losses and run IMO.

She gets to f*ck OM while you are living a nightmare, then the minute you try to wake up from the nightmare, all of a sudden she wants you back? Not buying her story. My gut feeling is the fantasy bubble with OM is about to burst, and she needs a safe place to land.

Annb, I agree with you here. At first I was thinking that the light had finally come on however (and that might be true) again however you are right....crickets until the processor delivered the papers...then OMG what have i done.

Ithasfeels...if you're looking to vet this here is what I would do:

1. Confirm where she's living and if she's still with the POSOM. (you want to know if she's branch swinging or looking for that soft spot to land).

2. She should Quit the job....do not commit to her a reconciliation but she needs to take the steps first to show good faith.

3. She needs to begin a long and significant effort to win you back.

4. She needs to prove to you that there is no further contact with the POSOM.

5. She should sign the divorce papers conceeding all the requests plus a lucrative payment schedule to support you should the divorce go through....this would prove her commitment to R.

Even after all this, you need to give this at least a year or more to watch and verify her intentions.

Before I get blasted here, I will restate that if you want to R. No one would ever blame or fault you should you say that too much water has passed to consider any R.

T/J

However, her ACTIONS show she still has not respect for you or her marriage. As others have said, she is still with OM, she didn't end that relationship. Didn't quit her job, didn't apologize, didn't DO any one SINGLE thing for YOU!

Does anyone on the board, including IHF, know whether his WW is still with the OM? No... because the only people that know that, the WW and OM, aren’t part of this board. This is why IHF should explore this question with the WW should he choose to consider reconciliation.

Does anyone on this board know why she hasn’t quit her job? No. Yet, I’m going to bet it has to do something with the fact that they are paying a mortgage on a house, and the WW was helping IHF pay rent at the old apartment. Plus, if I remember correctly, IHF is under her medical insurance, which is kind of a nice thing to have. So, maybe a question IHF should consider asking his WW if he decides to consider reconciliation is asking her when she is quitting the job, and how they will deal with the financial implications.

As noted before... the letter is full of implied “sorries”: “I don’t deserve you,”. “I imagine a time I didn’t do this to us,” “I destroyed that,”. “I need to come home to you. I need to fix my disaster and spend the rest of my life trying to deserve you,” etc. the sorries are there. However, as noted above, if I am correct, this is the WW’s first experience with this. It’s presumptuous to think that she will draft a perfectly crafted letter out of the gate with only the right amount of the pronoun “l,” and to say directly, rather than indirectly, say sorry throughout the letter. In any event, isn’t saying sorry just words, and not actions, anyway?

Finally, as far as actions, isn’t writing this email a first tangible action WW has taken in an attempt to repair what she has screwed up?

End T/J

[This message edited by Drumstick at 9:31 AM, December 19th (Tuesday)]

Hello everyone,

Wow – a lot of advice here and I appreciate the overwhelming response so quickly. I will start with; I have remained NC and have not responded to the letter. I want to get out in front of any other replies to let you know my state of mind and address some things. Scroll down to the TL;DR for the short version.

I do have a couple of concerns:

Christmas is Monday

- Silly I listed this one first, as it’s not the most important. Just something I’m thinking about. I could literally pick up the phone and have her back by Christmas… or, I could stay NC and let her spend Xmas alone or with OM, along with New Year’s. Idk why I’m thinking about this so much. It’s a weighty decision, having all the power.

What has changed to make her change her mind?

- I’m curious if I were to talk to her to get my own answers … how would I phrase this question to find out what’s changed in her? To be frank, she is a horrible liar. She never really lied to me at all during this A, if anything she was brutally honest (when I confronted her with questions). It’s more like she lied to herself. But, worse than lying, she cut me off completely like some sort of Russian sleeper agent that’d been activated in the cold war. I would 100% have to see her face-to-face to get a readable answer for this question… which leads me to my next concern

I feel as if I have to meet with her, no, I want to

- I need to see the look on her face when she talks to me so I can assess. Sure, her email didn’t SAY she was sorry. But the words dripped remorse. She’d apologized in previous letters I never shared, but in those letters she hadn’t thought about coming back yet. I feel strongly compelled that a face-to-face meeting is in order because that’s the only way I’m going to get full closure for myself or see if she truly is sorry. Part of the reason I served these divorce papers was at the advice of SI--- the notion was put out there it could slap her out of the fog. Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t. Maybe OM is telling her to GTFO. There’s no way for me to know from an email, text, message, or phone call.

She doesn’t deserve me and the thought of R will invite more pain

- But, I do love her. And, If I’m being optimistic, there’s potentially the shot at a better marriage and a better life than I had before. With work. On that same notion, it could end in disaster. There could be a repeat offense, etc. Did I ever tell you guys I literally hate gambling? Not because I’m against it, I’m just one unlucky mfr in games of chance.

A couple of small things I want to cover and my thoughts on them

1. She has to still be living with the OM, there’s nowhere else for her to go as far as I know and I don’t see a world in which she could afford her own place, as she’s still paying for our apartment.

2. If she quits the job right away, and I consider R, there goes all of our income and we won’t be able to afford to live here. It’s easy to say, “quit the job” but we don’t have any savings. That’s not realistic… at least right away. To apply for other jobs, yes. But if there’s R, quitting her job will put us in a financial hole. I don’t get paid for school until Feb and my job is only MEH.

3. She received the D papers and now I’m hearing from her. Wasn’t that the point, one strategy in the playbook?

4. I’m leaning towards R, but I want to do it smartly. Does she deserve it? no. Did I go through the literal shit… yes. I just want to make sure I do it right, if I choose to commit. I don’t plan to respond to her until Weds and when I do I’m going to ask her to meet me at the beach for a talk, where hopefully I will get some answers.

Again, thanks everyone for all of the support.

TL;DR

Leaning towards R. Am still NC. Strongly feel I need a face-to-face meeting with her which I’m planning on Weds to assess the situation.

I decisions are yours. I would be like you. I would have to talk to her face to face. I would not hug her or let her hug me during this meeting; but I would have to talk to her and get answers to all of my questions. If you truly want reconciliation then tell her what you need from her to make that happen. If you want divorce then tell her that she has destroyed any chance for reconciliation. But make sure this is what you need for closure.

I do not think there is anything wrong with wanting to see her to talk....

You NEED to get some answers to her motivations and where her head is at.....as well as what is she actually going to DO to end the A and return to work on your M....as well as a timeframe for doing it, because if she asks for or wants time to end it with this POS I would advise you to immediately walk away....she doesn’t need any more time, either she IMMEDIATELY leaves this dirtbag or there is nothing to discuss.

The only caution I would give you is this....

Do not go to meet her ‘leaning’ towards R......if she gets a sense you are doing this, she will use it to manipulate you about the timing and conditions of her return.

Having an open mind to give her a fair hearing is fine.....but in no way give her an indication that you are happy and ready to jump straight in to R ASAP.....

You want R so bad it is a danger to getting sucked back into the drama if she knows it.....

Knowing that you REALLY want to R with her could give her the idea that somehow she might be able to throw you promises of ending the A and coming back soon....in other words she can ‘cake-eat’ for awhile and you will still be an option for awhile....

That is why I say....NO MORE TIME for her to take action on returning to the M.

IHF,

But most of all, I'll go to AA.

Did I miss in your previous posts that she abused alcohol while you were together. Or is this something new, that she is self medicating with alcohol? It does matter for R.

A couple of small things I want to cover and my thoughts on them

1. She has to still be living with the OM, there’s nowhere else for her to go as far as I know and I don’t see a world in which she could afford her own place, as she’s still paying for our apartment.

2. If she quits the job right away, and I consider R, there goes all of our income and we won’t be able to afford to live here. It’s easy to say, “quit the job” but we don’t have any savings. That’s not realistic… at least right away. To apply for other jobs, yes. But if there’s R, quitting her job will put us in a financial hole. I don’t get paid for school until Feb and my job is only MEH.

3. She received the D papers and now I’m hearing from her. Wasn’t that the point, one strategy in the playbook?

4. I’m leaning towards R, but I want to do it smartly. Does she deserve it? no. Did I go through the literal shit… yes. I just want to make sure I do it right, if I choose to commit. I don’t plan to respond to her until Weds and when I do I’m going to ask her to meet me at the beach for a talk, where hopefully I will get some answers.

Again, thanks everyone for all of the support.

Don't get cute. Your answer to all of these questions can be responding to her e-mail with the following text:

"I've received your e-mail. Before I read it I'd like to know if you are still cheating on me?"

Blam. Simple and to the point. If she's still cheating on you then there is nothing to discuss. She doesn't get to send you messages like this trying to get two men to fight over her. If she wants you back then she needs to push her chips to the middle of the table and take the risk that you will not call her on it. It's quite literally the only way. I wish there was another way, but there isn't

IHF, it's your decision, as it's your life and you (and only you) have to live with the consequences of your choices.

As others have pointed out there's a lot of unanswered questions that you would need to answers to in order to even consider undertaking R. Throw in the fact the person you need the answers from is a liar.

Given what you've been through please don't rush this!!

Remember, when you asked her previously why she was casting you aside her response was "common interests".

I know you've been through hell and at the end of the day all anyone wants for you is to find a path to happiness. If it's with your WW that's your decision, but please do it on your terms.

How to navigate doing this? I'll let the experts on here help you and IHF PLEASE listen to them.

[This message edited by Booyah at 1:09 PM, December 19th (Tuesday)]

Ithasfeels,

If I may, I also support the need to either gain closure or to fully understand her "state of mind".

I would (assuming you can indeed tell when she is lying) add one more question:

When was the last time you fuck@d the POSOM?

If she was with him after she wrote you that letter, you know where her heart is. This would be a critical point for me. Additionally, I might even try to address this with the POSOM if possible. Ask him if he knew she wrote you that letter (maybe even sharing it with him). If he acts surprised then it will put a wedge between them. If he has no reaction then either they've already broken up and he wants her out or he's suggested this to mitigate the divorce settlement.

Also, do you know if she's contributing to the living expenses with POSOM?

If so, that would also be an important piece to look at any response for POSOM as to any desire he keeps her within reach.

I hope for you the very best and honest outcome which ever way it goes.

I wanted to add my thoughts, and thank you for your service. Although I am a new member as a BS, I have lurked here often over the years especially during the holidays which is when my DDay occurred many years ago. My wife and I successfully reconciled after she made many changes demonstrating her commitment to our marriage and me.

I was struck in your story by your passionate attempts to repair your marriage and your WW’s seemingly sudden and hasty abandonment of an otherwise good marriage. I am not surprised that your wife sent you this letter. You have been in a relationship with this woman all of your adult life and the letter reflects her emotional attachment to you arising out of that relationship. I noticed she did not attempt to blameshift in the letter but took the responsibility for destroying the marriage. This is good. Did she write the letter because the OM dumped her. Maybe. Perhaps she dumped him or they are still together. Perhaps being faced with the reality of being served divorce papers has penetrated the fog, but as so many wise people here have mentioned they are only words, and you need to see action. She mentions quitting her job and moving where you want. She mentions joining AA. These are all good but you need to see action not words.

But here is why I am writing to you. Please go back and read your October posts as painful as they are to read. Your WW suddenly leaves your marriage, says it’s because the marriage is not fun anymore, doesn’t see where it’s going, doesn’t love you, and then does love you, and vacillates all over the place about reconciling or not. Her family and mutual friends are shocked by her actions. She says it’s great if you go to school while she works at her new career and then within two months begins to resent your not working. To be blunt your WW’s actions demonstrate considerable emotional immaturity by her lack of commitment, vacillation, selfishness, and inability to face the consequences of her actions.

If you respond to her letter (and I think you will given your passion for her) take it slow and carefully consider what you want. My advice is if you do respond, to use her words to address the issue. She says she wants to be your princess again. No one should be married to a princess, or a prince for that matter. No one should be put on a pedestal. Marriage is not always fun. It is hard work shared between two mature and equal partners. If she is going to bolt or get into infidelity every time the marriage isn’t “fun” anymore, that is a recipe for disaster.

She says the tipping point for her is the realization that she wants to grow old with you. However, In order to survive in a long term marriage it requires two devoted and committed partners with the intestinal fortitude to get through all the crises and crap, the routine and yes, the boredom, along with the great times and successes. IMHO your WW has a lot of work to do to demonstrate to you that she is that committed and devoted to you. Action is required. Of course you may decide that you still want to D, but having already filed and having her served you are in a strong position to see if she is up to the hard work required. Only you can make that judgement.

In my case once my WW was faced with the prospect of D, she desperately wanted to R, but it was only after she demonstrated by her actions that she was totally committed to the marriage (quit her toxic job, went to counseling, apologized, changed her work demeanor and even her appearance to more professional, and made me feel safe at sensitive times, and never wavered in her commitment to our marriage) were we able to successfully reconcile. My DDay was 34 years ago and next year we will celebrate our 40th anniversary.

IHF,

I have the sense from some of your writings and posts, and her email to you, that you both share an idealized view of each other, and a romanticized version your M. That isn't a criticism BTW. There is a strong underpinning of emotion in the visual imagery.

That shared history and idealized notion of your relationship can be a basis for you to consider R with her. IMO it would not be enough to sustain either of you for the 2-5 year estimate to work though the toughest stages of recovering from her adultery.

Think of recovery and reconciliation as a job. Literally a jobincoorect. Look at the work you had to do to get to where you are now, post dday. Damn hard work. And to your credit you fashioned out the makings of a new life in fairly short order. The romanticized, idealized notion of each other and your marriage wasn't enough for her. I think you both would have to fashion a new notion of your relationship. More sober, maybe even more business like, if you enter into R. That would give you some protection while you observe her actions. There is some good stuff in the Healing Library under Articles, the 180. I'm not suggesting you use the 180 if you enter R. It would be incorrect to do so. Instead, read it with an eye toward healing yourself. Perhaps I'm saying that you should do the 180 on the idealized version of yourselves and your M.

I think you have in mind the questions to ask her when you meet. I'm going to suggest a counter intuitive approach to the meeting and your questions: don't discuss the adultery and don't discuss your pain. Those are self evident. Your meeting is about the future and your opportunity to assess her honesty about that future. You can discuss your healing and what you have done to move on. Aren't you really "interviewing" her to see if the risk she represents (tearing your heart out from your chest) is worth what you might gain from "hiring" her back (and no, this job metaphor does not mean that she would be your "employee" in R; she would have to be a partner that moves mountains to gain your trust)?

Her email cites an epiphany of sorts. I believe you know that one of your assessments has to be the motivation for that epiphany. While it is true she has made herself vulnerable by her email, let's face it, she has everything to gain. She lost everything. I think you have to get 2-3 layers below that epiphany, below the romanticized imagery, below the "open drawers".

I wish peace for you.

Don't get cute. Your answer to all of these questions can be responding to her e-mail with the following text:

"I've received your e-mail. Before I read it I'd like to know if you are still cheating on me?"

Blam. Simple and to the point. If she's still cheating on you then there is nothing to discuss. She doesn't get to send you messages like this trying to get two men to fight over her. If she wants you back then she needs to push her chips to the middle of the table and take the risk that you will not call her on it. It's quite literally the only way. I wish there was another way, but there isn't

That's brilliant. Pushing her chips in is great analogy and seems like a bare minimum to start a dialogue.

IHF,

Wow, I can understand what a shock to the system her letter must have been. I admire your restraint in not responding, and in wanting to meet face-to-face to discuss this, because it is a hell of a thing to try and talk about by email.

If I had to take a guess, I would imagine that 'Mr. Wonderful' who she moved in with has turned out to not be so wonderful after all. This kind of thing happens a lot; people leave someone, and then find out their new person has feet of clay, and the new relationship is not what they thought it would be. And having picked a dud, they try to hit the re-wind button.

That is something that you must be very careful of - you must make sure she is not saying all this stuff about what to come back just because her new guy has turned out to be a chump. For yourself, you really need to make sure that this is not just a case of you being her Plan B. I am very sorry to say something so brutal, I realise how sensitive and vulnerable you are at the moment, but that is why you must be extra-careful and extra-wary about her motivations.

Something else that I think needs exploring is whether she has told her new guy that she has written to you that way. I just have a feeling, based on what she did before, that she is probably messing the OM around in the same way that she messed you around with half-truths, omissions, and lies. Just as she deceived you, so she may be deceiving the OM now. I know none of us would shed any tears for him, and that is not why I am raising it.

The issue here is one of her honesty, and whether she may be messing two of you around by playing fast and loose with the truth. If I were in your shoes, and thinking of taking her back, I would be telling her to be open and clear with the OM immediately.

I cannot help thinking that she may well still be playing house with the guy, and will continue to do so if you do not take her back, which means a continuance of a state of dishonesty. She needs to change that behaviour, and start treating the men in her life with respect, and that requires honesty (whether or not it suits her). Effectively, if she is not being open with him, she has now made you the OM to the OM, which is ironic, but it is just piling dishonesty upon dishonesty, and if you are going to take her back, she has to break that habit.

It seems significant that she has not mentioned the guy, or her living arrangements, doesn't it? She doesn't say she has left him, and she doesn't mention how they are getting on.

Obviously, you will be thinking about what you want to discuss with her, but I think a key issue is this: she knew who you were, and she left you. She was not forced to do that, she did it willingly. So why is she suddenly so convinced of how wonderful you are? You are the same person she walked out on, only damaged, and suddenly she thinks you are great. I know that is what you want to hear - I have been there myself - but it's a hell of a change to convince herself that you are 'wrong' for her to the point where she walked out, and then have some kind of epiphany and decide you are great. Something is fishy about that.

Finally, and my heart really goes out to you on this, because I know where your emotions must be: please, IHF, do not convince yourself that she is saying or doing things that she is not. We always have to be careful to not convince ourselves that we are seeing and hearing what we need to hear, just because we want it to be true. Just as her letter was all about her, so your interaction with her has to be all about you, and what you need to be secure, and to trust her motivations. To do what she did took a lot of thought and planning, and she chose to do it. Th question has to be, if it was right a few weeks ago, why is it suddenly wrong?

This is not to say you should not reconcile with her. That is quite possible, though it will have its tough elements. However, for your own sake, you really have to make sure she is coming back for the right reasons, and you need to be sure that if you do let her come back, that she will not up and do the same thing again in a year's time. So if you do think reconciliation is a possibility, please do not rush to offer it. She needs to go through a process of proving why you should take her back, and explaining why she did what she did, and why she changed her mind. Doing that work, and going through that process will be cathartic for both of you. And for you, it is absolutely essential that you get the truth from her before you take her back.

My thoughts are with you, and they will be with you on Wednesday. I know where you are in this, and my heart goes out to you. That's why I urge you to be careful and cautious, and to not meet her wearing rose-tinted spectacles.

I would say nothing other than "Pass". Why? The absolute best scenario here is that she comes back to you as her back up plan. Why in the world would anyone want to be someone's back up plan? I sincerely don't get it.

Never ever ever be someone's back up plan.

That being said I just think she is hoovering and once she sucks you back in you will be relegated to the bench once again.

She needlessly made you walk through fire.

She must do the same.

She has credit, right? Tell her to stay at the Y for two weeks to demonstrate that she's no longer screwing the om, and that she's committed to R.

She can't simply desecrate someone's world, then plead forgiveness. That shit don't work in the real world.