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IHF,

IMO you didn't make a mistake. And if your reconciliation doesn't work out it would still not be a mistake to have tried. You have been consistent in wanting to fight for your marriage.

And after she went away from you the second time, almost immediately in the "One Month Trial R", you kicked ass on getting yourself going with a real live plan to move forward in your life without her. You saw you could do it and be successful. I don't know if this where you feeling comes from that you could accept and move on if she were to walk out the door. I would say that you've arrived at a place where you "want" her rather than "need" her.

You both have an incredible amount of work to do, individually and as a couple. I said in another post that my concern was the idealized view of your marriage. I sense that now you have a much more sober view of her and your marriage. Chiefly, you were able to walk away from it (serving D papers and creating a new life for yourself), and hold views like that now. If I were to speak to your wife I would tell her that she needs to put on hold all of that idealized view (the romantic imagery of the beach, your hair, the dog, growing old together, children). Those things are possible outcomes. But presumptuous of her to think of that when she has failed as a marriage partner.

No, not a mistake IHF. But also no guarantee of an outcome. Just be all in on it. Be realistic and honest with yourself because you are going to experience setbacks that will cause you to ask yourself, "Did I make a mistake?".

You may want to think about posting over in the Reconciliation Forum at some point because you are going to still be on a roller coaster ride. Those folks will help you.

You fought for your marriage. It does have a chance to survive.

But ,,, idk things feel different. I let her come back so we could try to work things out. Went with her to pick up things from OMs house, watched from the car the guy was devastated. So she wasn't being kicked to the curb. She really wants me over him but I feel so guarded.

Who in the hell wouldn't feel the way you are.

If you're smart you'll continue with your education plans, etc.

Only time will tell on this. Infidelity is the gift that keeps on giving.

Everything is changed because you now know what she's capable of.

I hate it when the wayward makes such a huge mistake and figures out (out of the blue) why they made that mistake.

It's like the wayward makes a mistake for marrying you and runs off with their affair partner and then seems to make the same mistake with their affair partner and runs off with their ex(YOU).

don't you feel guilty for interfering with a committed relationship?

maybe i'm wrong... but why did she.... leave her most recent committed relationship(OM) to be with her ex (you)?

I really want to protect you from your self! After all she was in a relationship and now you are the OM?

And yes.......Ive been reading your thread....just want you to think out side the box.

There is a lot more to this infidelity crap then "I want to come home"!

the fact remains that a person betrayed someone that took vows in front of family and friends not to betray.

someone made a commitment and did not have the balls to break that commitment face to face and choose to lie.

when someone is that broken one has to be careful in doing business with such a person.

BTW

I took a chance and kept my old lady around....it was worth it.

do you realize what your chances are?

please protect your heart and make sure you old lady means business this time!

She put you through pure hell just to get the ego boast from two men vying for her. The D proved otherwise.

Suddenly she pictured you remarried to a woman with integriy--someone who doesn't sneak out in the middle of the night. A worthy mother for your children.

She saw your future family portrait and she wasn't included.

Her fuck-a-rama left her empty, and now she pines to be the doyenne of domesticity.

I support R if that's your call. R can work, though I question why she suffered no consequences. A postnup giving you complete ownership of the house should have been a must.

I understand why you're uncomfortable. You're probably thinking you can do better.

Separately, your wife should make IC a priority.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 11:49 PM, December 22nd (Friday)]

IHF I know you want to R (and that's ok if that's what you want to do). IMO the reason why you feel "numb" is you're going too fast. One minute you're moving on with your life, and the next thing you know she says she wants you back and you drop everything and now you're back with the person who murdered your marriage (and stabbed you countless times).

I don't think you've really thought this through. You're following your heart (which is ok to some extent), however you haven't really set up any boundaries nor has she suffered any consequences. This R isn't based on truth.

I hope I'm wrong on this, but this has rugsweep written all over it. You obviously have countless questions you need answers to, but I highly expect your wife to tire of your questions, that she suggests you both quit talking about HER affair, that you just be happy that she came to her senses and that the two of you are now back together, and that you now live happily ever after.

I don't think you've really thought this through. You're following your heart (which is ok to some extent), however you haven't really set up any boundaries nor has she suffered any consequences. This R isn't based on truth

^^^This. I agree R can work, but you just allowed her to come waltzing back into your life...one day she is having sex with OM, the next week she is back in your bed?

Seriously, trying to be gentle here, but she crapped all over you, and now she gets to spend the holidays with you and your family like one big happy family?

IHF, I can tell you, nothing will ever be the same. R is a process that takes YEARS not weeks or months. You will love her, and you will hate her. Your emotions will be up and down and all around. It's not for the faint of heart. Divorce is hell, and so is R. Only two choices, which both s*ck.

IMO, I think you need to rethink this quick gift of R. Right now she doesn't deserve it, and she needs to prove to you, consistently, that she is worthy of your love. Moving out of OM apartment doesn't cut it.

Be vigilant, I have a feeling you are going to be dealing with another A if you rugsweep. A She dropped a nuclear bomb on you and your marriage. Remember that.

I often remember how my resolve would come and go, depending on my WW's attitude at the time.

When I was staring down the inevitable divorce, I would obviously attempt to be strong, but still hold out the hope for some sort of turnaround. And when a turnaround did come, and we were going to attempt reconciliation, I would THEN question why am I doing this, and it would seem that I could walk away at any moment with more confidence than ever.

It's almost like I wanted a toy more than anything in the world, and when I actually received it, the luster was diminished.

Bottom line---it's ok to give R a shot. But the only chance for success is a full effort from both parties. DO NOT SETTLE FOR ANYTHING LESS THAN WHAT YOU KNOW IS NEEDED. Ask questions, and get honest answers. Watch her do the work needed to change her boundaries. Cut the fantasizing BS, and deal with the realities that surround the two of you. Love doesn't conquer all; it is simply a component. Honesty, commitment, and respect are also needed in totality.

Good Luck.

You need to make sure you are tempered. A great resource is yourself. Go reread your first post.

I just feel very guarded. I can "act normal" but things aren't normal. She seems pretty unhappy with herself which I know I should find some kind of solace in because she's showing all the signs of being truly remorseful but tbh it's a little grating to me. How do I ensure this isn't being rugswept?? I hear that term thrown out a lot. Could someone explain

Ithasfeels...for some reason that I can't put my finger on, your story is particularly personal to me...maybe because something similar happened to me many years ago....at any rate, what specifically is she doing to give you indication of her remorse?

Originally, she summoned you back from your hometown to "try again" only to be betrayed again. Has she indicated what is different this time?

Also, did you find out the particulars of her last intimacy with the POSOM? That to me would be key. If she were still screwing the other guy while pouring out her heart to you, I'd never believe that she really knows what she wants.

It sounds as if she's back in the apartment you two share, is that the case...how were things left with the POSOM?

These are keys to where you are with her.

Also, if it were me, I would insist on a poly as to where her feelings are right now....i.e. Are you being truthful in wanting to fully commit to your marriage? etc....

Okay, I obviously missed your last post...sorry for the asked and answered questions above. my bad.

I stay with the polygraph but also would want to know what is different now as opposed to then for her?

One thing I did pick up on was your position of power. This is healthy in that you're willing to accept it for what it is.

She has a lot of making up to do for the damage she did. I would not withdraw the D papers just yet as you really don't know that she is really sure of what she wants....

How do I ensure this isn't being rugswept?? I hear that term thrown out a lot. Could someone explain?

Ithasfeels

It’s a very good term if you know where it came from. If you wanted a place to look good with minimal effort this is what you would do. You would use a broom to sweep up the dirt. Instead of using a dustpan you would lift a corner of the rug and sweep the dirt under it.

Everything looked great but the dirt was still there.

The easiest way to get back to “normal” and have everything look good is to give the WS a pass. They are saying all the right things so just believe them and move on.

On the surface everything is great but you didn’t do the work to get rid of the dirt.

Serve up some conseqences, and see how she reacts. A remorseful wayward would do nearly anything to make things right.

Demand a post-nup.

Crystalize the embarrassment that attends infidelity: Make her take an std test.

Infidelity reverberates throughout a family. Did she apologize to your parents?

What do I need to do to get rid of the dirt? Which resources should I look at?

We have talked but... idk I still feel prepared for her to leave again or something. Like I said, it's strange. I'm glad she's back but I still have the walls up and I won't let myself take them down. If she were to leave tonight I would be nothing like my first post, I'd just have the divorce go through and move on like I'd been doing ...

How were things left with the POSOM? She ended it with him, got all of her stuff, and came back to my place. Saw receipts, she'd been staying in a hotel for a week. I went with her to pick up the last of her stuff and the guy was crying, he obviously still wanted her, so that rules out that he kicked her to the curb.

I still feel like something is off. It's just a feeling, probably why I can't let my walls down and refuse to. we had sex the other night and it was horrible and awkward, I kind of wish we waited. I literally felt nothing, I could tell neither did she. No clue how we're going to repair things on that front.

Literally have no clue how to do the work ahead of my other than take it day by day

Your marriage has forever changed. There's a third person in the bedroom: posom.

"I still feel prepared for her to leave again or something".

IHF, in a previous post you asked her "why she left you for the OM"?

You said she told you "common interests".

If she could kick you and your marriage to the curb (and she did) for another man because she felt they had more "common interests" than what's to keep her from doing it again with the next man she finds that she feels she has more "common interests"?

So yes ANYONE in your shoes would be thinking/feeling the same way.

A little analogy.

If you were walking down a residential street and up ahead you saw a cat come out between two houses you wouldn't think twice about it. However if you were walking down the same street and a pit bull came out between two houses (and wasn't on a leash) you'd immediately turn and run in the opposite direction. Why? You know the nature of a pit bull.

So do NOT be surprised when something (or someone) act in a way that's in it's nature.

Your wife has flat out shown you she has NO problem throwing away something that should be sacred (her vows to you, your trust, your respect, her dignity etc etc), and by you dropping EVERYTHING and taking her back and all she had to do was email you a letter all you've done is show her how little respect you have for yourself. If you can't respect yourself how in the world can you ever expect her to respect you? She just went on few month F'ING spree (snuck out of your bed in the middle of the night to go meet this guy) and now she's done with him and she made a "mistake" and she snaps her fingers and you come running? I'm sorry for 2X4 IHF.

Listen if you want to R that's fine....it's your life. I understand you want to fight for your marriage. It's your choice and nobody has a right to tell you what to do. However IMO you're going about this the wrong way.

Remember IHF......TRUST is something that's EARNED.

It's NOT something you give away.....ESPECIALLY to someone who's not just broken the trust but desecrated on the trust.

IHF

I love ya man but you tend to run off 100 miles an hour without taking time to think and totally ignoring anyone giving you advice here.

I fully understand it, this stuff is hard. But you’re doing the equivalent of trying to jump on a roller coaster mid loop instead of preparing and waiting for things to be safe before climbing in the car.

Remember your first posts, you kept trying to tell us you knew best and whey wouldn’t you try everything to save your marriage. You jumped thru hoops for her, didn’t set boundaries and she ended up leaving you for him.

Well you are doing it again. Here are the key words for the moment: SLOW DOWN

Your mind is racing a mile a minute. Take about 100 breaths and don’t do anything R related for a few hours. Just try to rest and relax.

I and others tried to tell you after you received the email that a sprint won’t help you R. It’s a marathon. The pain she inflicted will take years to heal. There is no quick fix.

But you are where you are now.

So what to do.

Sounds like you are back home with your families. Are u staying together with them.

If so, try to get somewhere private where you two can talk alone.

You need to have lots of conversations and the holidays won’t be conducive to that.

Hit a coffee shop or a quiet restaurant to talk.

Her are some ideas what to say. “We need to slow down here. I’m still working thru the pain you inflicted on me. I cannot be pressured back into a marriage that I no longer feel safe in.

There are many things I need for you to prove you won’t do the same exact thing to me again. I want our marriage to succeed, but if we do this the wrong way we are doomed to fail. If you are expecting me to just forget everything that has happened then I am not willing to go forward.

To start we each need to get into IC. You clearly have conflicted thoughts about love in your mind. You have to work thru those if you are going to be with me. I can’t feel safe til you do. I also need to work thru this pain. I need help with that.

Then we will need to start MC to ensure we both are on the same page of what marriage means. We need to figure out what failed before before we can start anew.

You just left a several month relationship. How can I be sure you want another one with me.

I love you, but these past 2 months showed me I can be ok on my own. And that is better than being with someone who each day I will be unsure if she’s going to walk out that door and into another’s arms.

As well I will need some other things from you. To see a NC letter you send him. A letter of apology to me that focuses on the pain you think I am feeling not the pain you are feeling. I also need someone close to us to know what we are going thru. We need someone to help support us thru this difficult process.

We also need to be open with each other’s technology. I cannot doubt that again that you are still in contact with him or anyone else inappropriately going forward

We both need to set boundaries. That will mean no more happy hours without each other. No dinners solo with members of the opposite sex.

I need you to buy and read “how to help my spouse heal” and “not just friends” and read them cover to cover with me and we will discuss them.

And we will both need full STD tests done as part of this process.

As part of my healing I will need to be able to ask questions about the A anytime for as long as I need without you hesitating or making me feel bad about asking.

And from now on neither of us should have inappropriate discussions or contact with anyone. If you wouldn’t do it or say it in front of me, don’t do it.

I know this is a lot. It will be hard work. I’m all in. But if you are not, tell me. I need to feel wanted and that I am the prize here now. If I don’t feel that then it’s not working and we will fail.

Please tell me what you think”

IHF, this is what is meant by not rug sweeping. As I said before her bringing her bags home and dropping them in the foyer of the apt is not Reconcileing. It’s doing this hard work the next 2,3,5 years.

Are you up for it? There are other things u need to do I haven’t even listed here yet. It’s time to start listening again. We understand why you stopped, it’s easy to get swept up. We know you will be ok no matter what happens.

But splash some cold water in your face and say to yourself, TIME TO CLEAR THE FOG AND GET TO WORK.

Try to have a merry Xmas with your family. As for the WW, try to just be calm.

Take care.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 2:15 PM, December 23rd (Saturday)]

Your feelings are perfectly normal. It took months for you to get used to her being gone. It will probably take months to get used to her being back (if the two of you choose to remain together). It may take years for you to regain a reasonable level of trust. That's all part of what makes reconciliation so difficult for many.

Take your time. Just as when she left, you don't HAVE to make any decisions right away. Make some sort of plan going forward, but you can vary it as needed. Examples:

- Quite possibly individual counseling is warranted, and then, perhaps after some growth in that arena, marriage counseling.

- Having your spouse do the research and work to build better barriers and personal behavior.

- Testing for STD's is a must.

- Polygraph if you feel you can't trust something she says THAT TRULY MATTERS TO YOU.

- Get in touch with the feelings behind the walls you've built, but don't tear those walls down . . . maybe look at reforming them.

- Pre-nup if you wish and it's applicable.

These and other similar actions are meant to deal with getting out of (and then preventing further) infidelity and betrayal, and are each in opposition to 'rug sweeping'.

Her work is just beginning. You promised to have one-another's backs. You had hers, and she stabbed you in yours. Now she has to extricate that knife carefully, gently, and thoroughly. You really can't 'rugsweep' a knife if the back. Is she up to that challenge? Only time will tell . . .

Midnight said:

Your marriage has forever changed. There's a third person in the bedroom: posom.

That first sentence is 100% true, and what's more, it will probably keep changing, hopefully for the better.

The second sentence depends on both of you . . . it is some of the dirt that needs to be cleaned up, rather than rugswept. The real dirt, though, is the betrayal. Cleaning that stain will take time and effort on both your parts. It can be done, if you're BOTH ready to do the work. Don't expect things to ever go back to normal. You and she have to control where things go now. Be watchful, be strong, try to minimize hurt . . . but not at the cost of trust.

My best wishes to both of you. Best wishes for a reasonably happy and uplifting holiday season as well.

[This message edited by c24j at 2:21 PM, December 23rd (Saturday)]

I still feel like something is off.

Everything is "off" now. Just because she came back doesn't mean all is OK. If you R, you're going to have to build a new marriage from the ashes of the old one.

It's just a feeling, probably why I can't let my walls down and refuse to.

When she left and you came to your senses you began detaching yourself from her and the marriage. You have no idea what she was thinking and how she could have done what she did to you. Is it really any wonder why you don't let your guard down. The both of you have a lot of ground to cover to get back on an even keel. She needs to figure out why she had her affair and convince you that it wont happen again. A part of that is her rebuilding trust and honesty.

The affair is never going to go away. You will live with it forever. Now that your concern about saving the marriage is over, you're going to have to decide if your new wife, the one that cheated, is someone you will be able to live with and love. The attempt to R does not mean the you automatically forgive and forget. She must now prove that she is worth staying with.

Your attempt at sex was definitely premature. Think about it. You hardly know this woman you tried to have sex with. The feeling you now have are the direct result of the damage she's done to the relationship with her affair.